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Now Ye're Talking - to a Head of Department in an Institute of Technology

Boards.ie: Niamh

Last week's AMA was very educational and this week we have another educational one of a different sort.

Our guest this week has spent time working in both industry and in academia and now heads up a department at one of the country's Institutes of Technology. He is here to answer questions you might have about college life, academia and anything else third-level related.

Ask away!

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I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

How old was your oldest student?

Actual age, I am not 100% certain, but I do recall possibly the most frightening experience ever.

I was asked to teach an evening class in a particular (non-technical) subject that I had substantial industry experience in. I was in my early 30's and I remember on the first evening in September walking into the lecture hall, there were probably 60-70 students.

What struck me was the amount of grey hair in the room. Seriously, I reckoned at least 75% of the student body were senior managers, well into their 50's, all greying. I was petrified. I think the fact that the lecture hall was so big, and I was (relatively) so young and they were so old, I really felt small.

But then something interesting happened. I remember saying to myself, no matter what age they are, no matter what experience they have, they are here because I know more than them about this subject. And that's what got me through it.

In fairness, they were some of the best students I ever had. It was a very interactive class, lots of questions.

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Hi,

Thanks for answering the questions - it has been an interesting read so far.

I'm a software engineer - degree in Electronic Engineering and a Masters in Computer Science. My experience has been virtually all in a very niche area of software development (15 years in Safety Critical).
This work has now ended and I'm struggling to recognised by the more mainstream companies as I don't have the correct buzzwords on the CV. - namely experience in C++, Java, Python etc and their associated side dishes.

What is the best way for me to get knowledge/experience in order to make myself more attractive to employers? I'm currently between jobs and I just can't see how I can get back onto the merry-go-round again.

Have you any advice on which path I should take in order to increase my skills - I've been looking at online courses and possibly an OU course (I'm base in Northern Ireland - so an IoT would not be suitable for me, I think) but I just don't know what way to jump.

I would really appreciate some advice as I'm struggling to get going here.

Thanks.

Wow, that's a tough one. I don't know if another academic qualification would be worth your while.

Here's a few ideas, off the top of my head:

- is the format of your CV modern? As in 2 pages max, to the point, personal profile/statement, etc.

- do you have a detailed LinkedIn profile?

- as you have the academic qualifications and the experience, have you considered professional certs? As in MS Developer or Java, those kind of things?

Let me think of this more (head over to the Development forum too - ask them there also)

Trojan

Do you have any thoughts on what's happening with GMIT Castlebar? (I graduated from there in 1999).

jimmycrackcorm

I wonder if you agree with my viewpoint on this experience - I've no idea whatsover if there is any connection, but I'd be interested in your viewpoint:

In the not too distant past the company I was employed by was asked by a particular institute of technology to work together on developing a specific IT course geared to providing IT graduates that would have the appropriate skills in the languages and technologies that our company used with a view to being suitable for employment. As part of that we agreed to take a number on as paid interns. I was assigned as one of the company representatives to contribute to identifying what was being taught matched our requirements.

During the meetings to work through the course content it became clear that the department head wanted to include a particular subject where I argued very strongly that was not only going to be of no use to us as potential employers, but also largely irrelevant to any potential employer. It quickly became apparent to me that the reason it was being introduced as a subject was because there was a lecturer attending the meetings who clearly needed to be given some hours work and this particular subject was loosely related to the lecturers area of expertise.

As it turned out, from the first crop of grads of the course I got four on my team ( hence Why I was involved in the first place) and they were fantastic, the course was a success. But it still irks me to this day that not only was their time wasted being taught an irrelevant subject mostly theory, but that they were made to waste their time on a particular subject for no other reason other that a lecturer need to be given some hours. I still think it's strange that so students spend so much time on theory and yet when you get them into a job, they don't know the day to day real humdrum stuff of how to commit, revert, branch and merge source control. I won't even get into unit tests, mocking or the like.

But that is symptomatic of something that needs fundamental change particularly for IT which is rapidly changing, in that basically lecturers are only a couple of pages ahead of their students and even more to the point seem to be lacking real industry experience.

Boaty

Im a full time student in an IT in Leinster. Due to the upturn in the economy the numbers on my course has increased by 50% on the previous year.

I am missing out on 6 hours lectures/labs each week. The college has claimed that this is due to a lack of funding, limited resources and red tape.

The course is also oversubscribed by 30% going on what the course description says for the maximum numbers.

Have you found that your permanent full time lecturers are starting to become less useful as technology progresses.

Have you found that your department is in similar predicaments?

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

Trojan wrote: »

Do you have any thoughts on what's happening with GMIT Castlebar? (I graduated from there in 1999).

I do, but I would not be willing to share them on a public forum. It's complicated.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It quickly became apparent to me that the reason it was being introduced as a subject was because there was a lecturer attending the meetings who clearly needed to be given some hours work and this particular subject was loosely related to the lecturers area of expertise.

If it is as it appears to you, then absolutely, it is ridiculous. However, if there is one thing that I have learned from my many years in academia is that everything is not always as it seems. There are many, many, often not obvious reasons for doing things.

To be blunt, the industry panel would have a veto on that particular subject, they most certainly could have stopped it. Part of the validation process is the solicitation of relevant industry input, including agreement on individual subjects.

So with that in mind, I can't help but feel it is not as clear cut as it appears to you.

Boaty wrote: »

But that is symptomatic of something that needs fundamental change particularly for IT which is rapidly changing, in that basically lecturers are only a couple of pages ahead of their students and even more to the point seem to be lacking real industry experience.

So how do you solve the issue of lecturers not having up to date industry experience? Do you give every one a 3 year contract? A 2 year? 5 year? What about those that are already in employment in permanent contracts? See my comments earlier on Professional Development for lecturers.

Boaty wrote: »

Im a full time student in an IT in Leinster. Due to the upturn in the economy the numbers on my course has increased by 50% on the previous year.

I am missing out on 6 hours lectures/labs each week. The college has claimed that this is due to a lack of funding, limited resources and red tape.

The course is also oversubscribed by 30% going on what the course description says for the maximum numbers.

Have you found that your permanent full time lecturers are starting to become less useful as technology progresses.

Have you found that your department is in similar predicaments?

I wouldn't say I've found full time lecturers are starting to become less useful, that's for sure.

I again refer to my above point - all programmes are legally bound to deliver what it says in the programme document. If an institution is not delivering what it says it should be delivering, then no amount of excuses or nonsense about resources will excuse that fact. Again, if it is as clear cut as you are saying it, then it needs to be escalated up the food chain to the Head of School, Registrar and so on.

And yes, we are particularly resource constrained, so rather than resort to delivering half-measures, we are cutting programmes from September.

sullivlo

Do you still have lecturing hours as a HOD?

Do you find being HOD a big change from being just a regular academic?

Have you any PhD students/postdocs in your lab?

Do you think that the current model/set up within academia is sustainable?

What's the funding situation in your field?

Do you do any interdisciplinary collaboration?

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

sullivlo wrote: »

Do you still have lecturing hours as a HOD?

Yes, we are contractually obliged to lecture, and let's not mince words here, it's a killer. I love it, but balancing lecturing, finishing my own PhD and running a department, it takes its toll.

sullivlo wrote: »

Do you find being HOD a big change from being just a regular academic?

Absolutely. They are worlds apart - an obscene amount of paperwork, strategy and much more besides.

sullivlo wrote: »

Have you any PhD students/postdocs in your lab?

No, unfortunately. Again, it's complicated.

sullivlo wrote: »

Do you think that the current model/set up within academia is sustainable?

It depends on which model you are talking about. If you mean the IoT model, no, it is not sustainable with current funding frameworks. There is a lot of duplication, something I hope the drive towards Technological University will help alleviate.

sullivlo wrote: »

What's the funding situation in your field?

Dire. No other way to put it. The bean-counters are running the show, not the academics. All decisions are based on money, not regional impact, jobs, academic excellence nor anything remotely beneficial to the economy or society.

sullivlo wrote: »

Do you do any interdisciplinary collaboration?

A little bit, but nowhere near as much as I would like. There is a concerted effort to focus on finance and cost, with teaching, research and everything else falling far behind.

[Deleted User]

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

I'm always on interview boards.

I look for confidence, not arrogance. I look for somebody whom I could work with and who I think the students would respect. I look for somebody who won't bullsh*t and has a sense of humility. I look for somebody who knows their stuff yet is willing to learn. I look for somebody who is enthusiastic about their field and has a certain degree of flexibility.

Personality has a lot to do with it. It takes a certain type of person who can convincingly stand up in front of students and nurture an environment conducive to learning.

Could you tell us more please about the reliability of the recruitment process and how you manage performance of your academic staff?

How often does a dud person get through the recruitment process, but fails probation?

How often do you have to deal with poor performance of academic staff, and how do you deal with this?

Would you have a rough idea of what % of poor performers you have managed to turn around and 'fix' and what % you have had to get rid of.

How do you go about getting rid of 'unfixable' poor performers?

How do you deal with staff with poor attitudes - the cynics, the 'lifers' who've been there too long - the ones who are technically competent but just not good team players?

Thanks in advance

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Could you tell us more please about the reliability of the recruitment process and how you manage performance of your academic staff?

I think the recruitment process is as reliable as you can get when the human factor is involved. Interviews are always a panel of five, with a representative from industry, an external academic, the hiring manager, a member of the governing body and a HR person. It can be quite intimidating, but it is as effective as it can be, with a pretty transparent scoring mechanism.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How often does a dud person get through the recruitment process, but fails probation?

There isn't a probation period. Typically people are hired on a contract basis first and should a full-time post become available, they can apply. So if there are any issues, their contract will not be renewed. Of course there are legal ramifications - you can't keep giving somebody a temporary contract.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How often do you have to deal with poor performance of academic staff, and how do you deal with this?

You see, it all depends on what you mean by poor performance. If you mean disputes with students, at least once a semester for at least 1 or 2 staff members. It is dealt with through the published policies of the institution and the public sector, including the HR department.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Would you have a rough idea of what % of poor performers you have managed to turn around and 'fix' and what % you have had to get rid of.

I honestly wouldn't have that information to hand.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How do you go about getting rid of 'unfixable' poor performers?

You can't get rid of them, simple as that. All you can do is work with them, try to re-educate/upskill them.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How do you deal with staff with poor attitudes - the cynics, the 'lifers' who've been there too long - the ones who are technically competent but just not good team players?

Ha, I have to be careful here.

My method is to win their respect. Treat them like people who have a valuable contribution to make. Speak with them rather than via email. Engage with them. Give them a sense of autonomy. Try and bring them around.

And hope the retire soon.

YiddoOConnell

I am 28 but will turn 29 in September, previously done a 1 year computer systems course and enjoyed it but did eclipse in programming and I found it difficult to get my head around but I just like to know for higher certificate level 6 courses of information technology support what is the programming like and what programme do ye use? What course would you recommend and where for the best college for someone like me who likes hardware etc..thanks

thelad95

Do you think the model of students having to decide at 17/18, with very little real life experience, what path they want their career to take?

Would you recommend students to maybe take a year out after the Leaving Cert instead, save up some money, do some travelling and make those decisions when they're a year wiser, away from all the pressure of school leaving exams?

A few people I was in school did this, they achieved quite highly in terms of points and on reflection, went for way lower point courses because away from the pressure of school, they realised that the college and course suited them better than what they would have went for a year earlier.

They also had money to spend instead of relying on Mammy and Daddy and hell of a lot of stories to tell from travelling in Africa for the summer and they have all gone on to thrive in 3rd level.

beauf

Not everyone, but some people really struggle getting back to college, after these trips.

[Deleted User]

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

You can't get rid of them, simple as that. All you can do is work with them, try to re-educate/upskill them.

Thanks for the honesty. The quoted bit above is the scary bit.

Is it "can't" or "won't"? Is it just not the done thing, or has it ever been tried through a performance management process?

languagenerd

Do you think the Institutes of Technology and the Universities should be trying to do things differently? I know that historically IoTs were more practical/industry-based than the unis, but, for example, my local IoT has a lot of the same courses (degree titles) as the universities in the same county. With universities doing some computer science courses and IoTs doing Arts ones (modern languages, European Studies etc), is there a difference? Should there be?

And do you think IoTs should/could do more to attract higher-achieving LC students? (Not being disparaging of IoT students at all btw. But based on the fact that IoT courses *on average* have lower minimum points than universities each year, it suggests that there is somewhat less demand from students with high points scores in the IoTs)

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

YiddoOConnell wrote: »

I am 28 but will turn 29 in September, previously done a 1 year computer systems course and enjoyed it but did eclipse in programming and I found it difficult to get my head around but I just like to know for higher certificate level 6 courses of information technology support what is the programming like and what programme do ye use? What course would you recommend and where for the best college for someone like me who likes hardware etc..thanks

Are you asking about a specific course? I am not familiar with that course, so if you provide a link to it, I can comment on it.

thelad95 wrote: »

Do you think the model of students having to decide at 17/18, with very little real life experience, what path they want their career to take?

Would you recommend students to maybe take a year out after the Leaving Cert instead, save up some money, do some travelling and make those decisions when they're a year wiser, away from all the pressure of school leaving exams?

A few people I was in school did this, they achieved quite highly in terms of points and on reflection, went for way lower point courses because away from the pressure of school, they realised that the college and course suited them better than what they would have went for a year earlier.

They also had money to spend instead of relying on Mammy and Daddy and hell of a lot of stories to tell from travelling in Africa for the summer and they have all gone on to thrive in 3rd level.

Oh, absolutely 100% agree. It is so hard for teenagers at that stage to make such a life-altering decision. So yes, I would 100% in favour of a post-secondary gap year. I think there is a broader issue here too, one I have alluded to in previous posts - the maturity level. A percentage of our students are particularly "sheltered", lacking life experience. A lot of it is related to wealth, there are differing demographics that typically attend an IoT, so it is not always achievable. I have encountered many, many students who are simply not ready for life at third level (notice I didn't say 'study at third level') and a year out would definitely do them a world of good.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Thanks for the honesty. The quoted bit above is the scary bit.

Is it "can't" or "won't"? Is it just not the done thing, or has it ever been tried through a performance management process?

I'm putting myself on a slippery slope here, but I would answer with "can't".

languagenerd wrote: »

Do you think the Institutes of Technology and the Universities should be trying to do things differently? I know that historically IoTs were more practical/industry-based than the unis, but, for example, my local IoT has a lot of the same courses (degree titles) as the universities in the same county. With universities doing some computer science courses and IoTs doing Arts ones (modern languages, European Studies etc), is there a difference? Should there be?

This is an interesting point and yes, I agree with you. There is a very blurred line between Further Education (PLC courses, up to Level 6 on the QQI), IoTs and Universities. We are competing with one another from two pots - one is the potential pool of applicants and the other is funding. So if a school leaver asks what is the difference between a Level 6 in, say, Business from a Further Education college and a Level 6 in Business from an IoT, well technically there is no difference. Except the former is a hell of a lot cheaper, probably closer to home and hence easier to get to.

And then at the other end of the scale, what's the difference between a Level 8 honours degree from an IoT compared to a university? Again, technically, there should be no difference.

So yes, in my opinion, there should be clearer demarcation between the three various types of institutions. Having said that, the more regional IoTs do have a role to play in providing higher education to locations that are far away from Universities - I'm thinking Letterkenny, Dundalk, Sligo, Athlone and possibly Tralee.

And being a science/technology man, I would leave the likes of Arts and history to the universities. These kind of esoteric subjects have no place in applied institutions that are IoTs.

languagenerd wrote: »

And do you think IoTs should/could do more to attract higher-achieving LC students? (Not being disparaging of IoT students at all btw. But based on the fact that IoT courses *on average* have lower minimum points than universities each year, it suggests that there is somewhat less demand from students with high points scores in the IoTs)

The lower points are a combination of factors, demand being one of them, perception being another. I think the perception is key in attracting such students, in my experience (while acknowledging that we do have high-achieving students), such school-leavers gravitate towards the universities.

In broad terms, no, attracting higher-achieving students should not be the highest priority. To be blunt, we have bigger fish to fry. Most of the IoTs are struggling with low numbers, cuts to funding and so on. In an ideal world, yes, it would be nice. But I think we have higher priorities.

(I should have put the caveat at the very beginning of all of this that everything I say here is my own personal opinion and is not reflective of the institution I work at. )

Phoenix Wright

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote:

Oh, absolutely 100% agree. It is so hard for teenagers at that stage to make such a life-altering decision. So yes, I would 100% in favour of a post-secondary gap year. I think there is a broader issue here too, one I have alluded to in previous posts - the maturity level. A percentage of our students are particularly "sheltered", lacking life experience. A lot of it is related to wealth, there are differing demographics that typically attend an IoT, so it is not always achievable. I have encountered many, many students who are simply not ready for life at third level (notice I didn't say 'study at third level') and a year out would definitely do them a world of good.

On that note, would you recommend that a student just finished at undergraduate level takes some time out prior to starting a PhD?

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

Phoenix Wright wrote: »

On that note, would you recommend that a student just finished at undergraduate level takes some time out prior to starting a PhD?

It depends on the circumstances.

Ordinarily, yes, I would recommend a break. If you have just been studying for four years, can you commit to another 3-5 years? Financially? Emotionally? I would be a big proponent of getting some relevant experience outside of academia, in the field.

I started my PhD when I was in my 30's and I feel I had a lot to bring to the table in terms of experience.

But I do know of some cases where people developed a relationship at undergrad level with what was to become their supervisor, had the funding and the time seemed right.

[Deleted User]

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

I'm putting myself on a slippery slope here, but I would answer with "can't".

Don't mean to push you down the slope - but the obvious question is - Why not?

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Don't mean to push you down the slope - but the obvious question is - Why not?

Let's just say that working in the public sector is not like working in the private sector. Plus, unions wield unbelievable power.

Reati

Did you think the students in 3rd level computing have the skills needed to get the best jobs?

As an senior member of my team I'm an interviewer for a large software company. I find we struggle with the quality of students coming out of the Irish system compared with elsewhere in Europe.

The basic computer science skills (like data structures and algorithms) don't seem to be there. I've been to course reviews councils and now there is a big focus on big data and machine learning but these are not the basic software dev skills. They are implementations of those skills. There is also a distinct lack of drive and sense of I'll get an auld job somewhere.

What's your thoughts on curriculums and students attitude in general?

[Deleted User]

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote: »

Let's just say that working in the public sector is not like working in the private sector. Plus, unions wield unbelievable power.

Thanks, I've been in both public and private sectors, and I've seen people fired on both sides. It's not easy either way, and tends to be a very last resort at the end of a long road - but it does happen on both sides.

Live65a846d0ee

What is the difference between IoT, College and University. Will employers be more willing to hire someone from university rather than IoT? Will I learn more in an university and have an easier time finding a job than if I would go to IoT?

5rtytry56

In the academic year 1998 - 1999 I was thought databases through Microsoft Access 95 (not 97)

Does teaching databases now allow for the fact if one only used Libre Office, in other word "Base"?

SimonTemplar

I recently finished a part time evening degree course in Computing as a mature student but not in an I.T..

A vast majority of my lecturers throughout the whole four years drove their lectures through PowerPoint presentations. Even worse, there was always at least one "lecturer" each semester who simply read the slides and did absolutely nothing else. There is nothing more disheartening to see a slideshow of 60 slides and know the next two hours will consist of the lecturer just reading them. What is your opinion of PowerPoint usage in lectures (especially in IT).

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA

Reati wrote: »

Did you think the students in 3rd level computing have the skills needed to get the best jobs?

As an senior member of my team I'm an interviewer for a large software company. I find we struggle with the quality of students coming out of the Irish system compared with elsewhere in Europe.

The basic computer science skills (like data structures and algorithms) don't seem to be there. I've been to course reviews councils and now there is a big focus on big data and machine learning but these are not the basic software dev skills. They are implementations of those skills. There is also a distinct lack of drive and sense of I'll get an auld job somewhere.

What's your thoughts on curriculums and students attitude in general?

When talking about anything like this, it is hard to generalise, especially since I am on the "sending" end as opposed to the "receiving" end, as you are. If you look back over previous comments I have made, you will see that it takes roughly two years to change a programme, or introduce a new one. Things just don't happen overnight, unlike in the IT industry.

So yes, we have a mandate to deliver work-ready graduates and, as I have said earlier, I can honestly say we do deliver the graduates for those companies I mentioned. Do we, on a broader level, deliver all graduates with all the skills for all the employers? No, but then again, I would argue it is difficult to be all things to everyone.

In terms of, as you call it "student attitude" generally speaking, the students that get to year 4 of any programme have certain characteristics, simply by virtue of the fact they have made it that far. Do we need closer collaboration with industry, to meet the needs of industry? Most certainly. But I still maintain that this needs to be done on a regional basis, with local companies, as opposed to a broader "one size fits all".

Live65a846d0ee wrote: »

What is the difference between IoT, College and University. Will employers be more willing to hire someone from university rather than IoT?

College is a general term for post-second level education. IoTs have an applied focus, with limited research, the primary focus of which is to produce graduates for industry. Universities are more theoretical focussed, but again, obviously, deliver graduates for industry and research.

Live65a846d0ee wrote: »

Will I learn more in an university and have an easier time finding a job than if I would go to IoT?

How do you quantify how much somebody has learned?

5rtytry56 wrote: »

In the academic year 1998 - 1999 I was thought databases through Microsoft Access 95 (not 97)

Does teaching databases now allow for the fact if one only used Libre Office, in other word "Base"?

There are two types of database classes - those, such as I suspect you took, that are office-application focussed and consequently use Excel, Word and Access. The other is broader database theory and use industry-standard relational databases, such as Oracle, MySQL and MS SQL Server. So, it depends on what type of class you are taking.

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I recently finished a part time evening degree course in Computing as a mature student but not in an I.T..

A vast majority of my lecturers throughout the whole four years drove their lectures through PowerPoint presentations. Even worse, there was always at least one "lecturer" each semester who simply read the slides and did absolutely nothing else. There is nothing more disheartening to see a slideshow of 60 slides and know the next two hours will consist of the lecturer just reading them. What is your opinion of PowerPoint usage in lectures (especially in IT).

I utterly, utterly despise that phenomenon - death by Powerpoint. Look, we've all been there - sitting in a classroom where somebody neither has the interest, nor the competency to convey information, so takes the lazy way out. It is soul-destroying and has no place in modern education.

In particular, a practical subject like IT should be learn by examples, or learn by doing. There's no excuse.

YiddoOConnell

I'm a Head of Department in an IT, AMA wrote:

Are you asking about a specific course? I am not familiar with that course, so if you provide a link to it, I can comment on it.

Its called higher certificate in information technology support level 6 in the IT Tralee..not sure how to send a link via the phone app and currently getting my computer repaired but if you type it into Google it should come up.

5rtytry56

Any particular views on the proliferation of cameras in mobile devices? - now that the smartphone owned by the Joe Public has 2 cameras (main and front facing). Do you have concerns about this, particularly students recording videos on the smartphone in class?

Thebe

I've applied for a masters in an IoT but I have a nagging doubt about this being somewhat less beneficial to my career than a university. I am happy with the cost, the hours, the modules etc. but I am not totally confident that the IoT qualification will be as valued as I think it should be.

Would you have any experiences of this?

Reati

What could I do (I do lots of campus visits) to help students think about how how industry really works and improve their chances in coming to interview?

I think death by PowerPoint doesn't do much for my case