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Child Item

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

sparrowcar

Contact lost just before 0100 off the west coast of Achill island on a rescue mission.
Search in progress including all available ships and Rescue 115.

Hopefully a positive outcome to this.

Please keep replies civil, and respectful of the crew and their families.

Please do not speculate as to any cause unless you have a factual basis to do so (and can back it up with information released to the public).

There will be zero tolerance for troublemakers or those that choose to ignore these guidelines.

There are other moderator messages in the thread, as a result of issues that have arisen, and we will be less forgiving going forward, due to the ongoing sensitivity of this incident

As per normal boards guidance, any comments on moderation are off topic and should be addressed directly to mods or cmods by PM. Any part of posts which are off topic in such a manner may be edited or removed, with possible sanction. Non news posts will be moved to the parallel R116 Non news and discussion thread

Should any new reports, updates or news stories come out, posts which can be boiled down to "I Told You So" or other triumphalism about previous commentary will result in significant punishment.

Any threadbans will carry over to any replacement thread should this approach 10,000 posts

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L1011

Stop the sniping before I've to get my new set of cards dirty

This applies to everyone.

jmayo

I think everyone has been doing their best and yes some have been putting their own lives in danger as part of that.

I also think some others here have a point because it has now turned into a salvage operation of the helicopter.
It appears the authorities believe that by moving the helicopter they may retrieve the bodies of the last remaining crew.

And however good and brave the divers of the Naval Service and AGS are they are not salvage experts, neither are the operators of the Marine Institute ROV, the Coast Guard, Irish Lights personnel and the Naval Service.

Getting the helicopter wreckage off the seabed and safely on board a ship is more of a salvage operation than anything else.

Lets hope that all involved can get the breaks in weather and can safely do the necessary to recover both wreckage and especially the bodies.

livedadream

elastico wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

#fakenews
dude you have no idea what you are on about.
it comes across like you have nothing positive to say about anything to do with the recovery and investigation and have no mind for the people down there doing the work. youre talking about the families but have no idea whats going on.
take it somewhere else will ya? youre either trolling or just looking for a fight.. or are too much of an 'expert' in your field that you dont work for the two biggest sea agencys in the country...

Weren't you telling us earlier the cabin may still be watertight? Somehow they got a body out without making a big hole?

I think he knows a lot more than you.

People are entitled to a different point of view on this.

It seems anybody who doesn't compliment all aspects of the operation gets lambasted.

no i didnt, again i questioned the guys knowledge because theres no way he could know what condition its in. I actually know what condition its in. but because im not a tool, or want a pissing contest im keeping my gob shut.

edit: didnt see the mod warning so edited to remove comments.

Stheno

livedadream wrote: »

if you read the post i said no one but the 9 lads down there .

The press reported last week that there were five teams of ten divers?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/hopes-weather-will-allow-recovery-of-rescue-116-crew-member-35564908.html

Where are you getting this nine lads number from?

livedadream

Stheno wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

if you read the post i said no one but the 9 lads down there .

The press reported last week that there were five teams of ten divers?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/hopes-weather-will-allow-recovery-of-rescue-116-crew-member-35564908.html

Where are you getting this nine lads number from?

not are all from the navy. i can only speak about what i know and thats the navy.
the navy are on the wreckage, the garda divers and under water unit are searching the wider area around the wreckage, if you read the article you linked to you'd have read that. but im also not relaying on the newspapers for my updates.
(i also dont relay on the indo in general to be fair)

elastico

livedadream wrote: »

no i didnt, again i questioned the guys knowledge because theres no way he could know what condition its in. I actually know what condition its in. but because im not a tool, or want a pissing contest im keeping my gob shut.

edit: didnt see the mod warning so edited to remove comments.

How do you know what condition it's in?

livedadream

elastico wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

no i didnt, again i questioned the guys knowledge because theres no way he could know what condition its in. I actually know what condition its in. but because im not a tool, or want a pissing contest im keeping my gob shut.

edit: didnt see the mod warning so edited to remove comments.

How do you know what condition it's in?

try reading the thread, or even if that's too difficult, reading just my posts.

elastico

livedadream wrote: »

not are all from the navy. i can only speak about what i know and thats the navy.
the navy are on the wreckage, the garda divers and under water unit are searching the wider area around the wreckage, if you read the article you linked to you'd have read that. but im also not relaying on the newspapers for my updates.
(i also dont relay on the indo in general to be fair)

So do the Navy lads put up screens to stop the Garda lads sneaking a peak at the wreckage and finding out what condition it's in?

All seems very strange.

elastico

livedadream wrote: »

try reading the thread, or even if that's too difficult, reading just my posts.

Any chance you can answer the question, have you seen it to know what condition it's in or not?

Storm 10

Just in relation to the condition of the helicopter, on the night before the Pilot was recovered they said on RTE News the following morning that the ROV had spent the night cutting away a large section of the roof of the helicopter to allow the Navy Divers access.

L1011

livedadream wrote: »

try reading the thread, or even if that's too difficult, reading just my posts.

elastico wrote: »

Any chance you can answer the question, have you seen it to know what condition it's in or not?

Do you both have trouble understanding the word "stop"?

Take it to PMs

Gadgetman496

livedadream wrote: »

no i didnt, again i questioned the guys knowledge because theres no way he could know what condition its in. I actually know what condition its in. but because im not a tool, or want a pissing contest im keeping my gob shut.
if you read the post i said no one but the 9 lads down there know what condition its in and the people they report to, but thanks for the pedantry, its really appreciated.
and i didnt say anything about him not complimenting the whole operation i said it seems he had an agenda as he had nothing but negative stuff to say.
but slow clap, youre really making reading the thread worthwhile..."

Just because some people know people involved in the operation it doesn't make them an official source or experts either.

Anyone with 3rd party information should not be talking about it on a public forum if only to prevent the creation of a Chinese whisper.

youtheman

elastico wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

try reading the thread, or even if that's too difficult, reading just my posts.

Any chance you can answer the question, have you seen it to know what condition it's in or not?

He's whole argument seems to be based upon some knowledge he has of the condition of the a/c. I have no such knowledge. But it has absolutely no bearing on my argument. I just looked up the data sheet for the DSV I was on previously. It can operate in up to 80 knot winds. And I've been on it as it operated a few metres away from some serious 'hazards'. That is the right tool for the job.
PS : people should really learn to play the ball, not the man.

Tenger

I hope we all had a nice day discussing the situation at hand. We can see how the sniping and one-upmanship was getting out of hand before L1011 had to issue a warning following very quickly by 2 yellow cards.
This was over the impending arrival of a 2nd vessel to assist in the recovery/salvage operation.
Now imagine this debate was over something a little more emotive and personal....
Perhaps this illustrates the rationale behind some of the unpopular decisions that have taken place in this thread.

Gadgetman496

The Ocean Challenger is in the Blacksod area now.

spaceHopper

Marine traffic shows the ocean challenger is in black sod now. However they may only have tomorrow and Sunday before the weather shuts them down for a while, big swells forecast for next week.

From looking at marine traffic you can see that at least two RNLI boards and helicopter have been out each morning to check Achil and Belmullet and even Sligo Bay. They are assuming nothing and have kept searching.

It's good that they are bringing more help but we have no business criticizing them it's members of their own team they are looking for and the last thing any of the R116 crew would have wanted is for anybody to lose their live on their account. Diving is a dangerous operation things can go wrong very quickly one mistake is all it takes.

They are operating in turbulent waters, you got swell, back wash and tide to cope with.

TomOnBoard

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Anyone with 3rd party information should not be talking about it on a public forum if only to prevent the creation of a Chinese whisper.

Ah, Jaysus... The Chinese are involved as well? :eek::eek::eek:

TomOnBoard

Have I missed any updates regarding the analysis of the 'Black Box'? After it was recovered and earlier in the week, I seem to recall that it was expected to be analysed by the end of this week, which is I suppose now.

Cloudio9

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Have I missed any updates regarding the analysis of the 'Black Box'? After it was recovered and earlier in the week, I seem to recall that it was expected to be analysed by the end of this week, which is I suppose now.

Nothing yet. I expect we'll have a leak of info soon, in advance of an interim report.

I would say they're keen to have the bodies recovered before the interim report.

scuby

Ocean challenger on the way out of blacksod now

On a separate note, kind of ironic that the church for Cpt. Fitzpatrick was on road r116 and the area of the church for Cpt Duffy was called blackrock !

Gaoth Laidir

scuby wrote: »

Ocean challenger on the way out of blacksod now

On a separate note, kind of ironic that the church for Cpt. Fitzpatrick was on road r116 and the area of the church for Cpt Duffy was called blackrock !

He was from Blackrock, Co. Louth.

Means Of Escape

de biz wrote: »

Mark got his first commercial flying job in Ireland with Bryan Carpenter's Westair who managed Declan Ganleys 206.
Mark was a good operator from the outset,focussed and a pro.

Bryan Carpenter was way ahead of his time
First in a lot of things pertaining to Irish Aviation
I remember passing SRS in Shannon in the 1980s when he and others had a varied range of aircraft both outside and inside before he built the Westair hangar on the far ramp of the airport.

elastico

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Nothing yet. I expect we'll have a leak of info soon, in advance of an interim report.

I would say they're keen to have the bodies recovered before the interim report.

It's usually within 30 days, I'd expect something next week assuming all went well recovering the box data.

JimWinters

scuby wrote: »

Ocean challenger on the way out of blacksod now

Almost at Blackrock now and a small cargo barge Madelen is there too. It has a hydrolic crane onboard but it doesn't look capable of lifting 5+ tons (non-expert opinion)...

Hopefully plans progressing well to recover the remaining crew

scuby

Gaoth Laidir wrote:

He was from Blackrock, Co. Louth.

Apologies..!

Means Of Escape

Storm 10 wrote: »

Just in relation to the condition of the helicopter, on the night before the Pilot was recovered they said on RTE News the following morning that the ROV had spent the night cutting away a large section of the roof of the helicopter to allow the Navy Divers access.

Therefore it can be concluded that the structural integrity of the frame is severely compromised from the cutting , initial impact and the underwater forces on it
The probability of the two being in or under it has to be very low unless they are harnessed inside
The ROV would more than likely have been able to view the rear section during the cutting process under bright lights .
Possible that the delay in surfacing the chopper is due to the marginal chance of recovery of the men .

TomOnBoard

JimWinters wrote: »

Almost at Blackrock now and a small cargo barge Madelen is there too. It has a hydrolic crane onboard but it doesn't look capable of lifting 5+ tons (non-expert opinion)...

Hopefully plans progressing well to recover the remaining crew

Madelen seems to be just passing through the area.

Ocean Challenger hopefully on a recce mission to get its bearings.

LE James Joyce and Granuaile still showing up as at anchor in Blacksod

wexandproud

Deleted User wrote: »

Seen as how you two have so much experience at this how about you get in contact with the two agencies and let them know where they've been going wrong and point them in the right direction.

Irish Coast Guard

(01) 6783454
Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, Leeson Lane, Dublin, D02 TR60.
IRCGDIVISION@dttas.ie

Haulbowline Irish Naval Base, Co. Cork
(021) 4864700

I'll be honest that's the clean version of the response I wanted to post, the original version contained no more than a couple of words but I couldn't decide which word or words were most appropriate.

i already have those numbers but thanks anyway . I could have used some choice words as well in my response , and their are lots of other posts on here that i could have responded to with a different opinion but due to the sadness of the situation i choose not to as the thread and mods were under enough pressure
Just to clarify something , i have a lot of respect for the naval divers and any other organisations involved in the operation but that does not alter the fact that I feel the salvage company , using there specialized equipment should have been called in earlier and even though the word ''salvage'' is being used I know that is the wrong word to describe the ongoing operation and i know what the operation involves
As regards my experience in these types things , well i work at sea and I have been around for a few of these operations , some involving friends who have been lost from fishing vessel , so i know how the navy 'as an organisation' operates and i don't mean any disrespect at all to the guys who put their lives on the line going in the water

jimbis

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Therefore it can be concluded that the structural integrity of the frame is severely compromised from the cutting , initial impact and the underwater forces on it
The probability of the two being in or under it has to be very low unless they are harnessed inside
The ROV would more than likely have been able to view the rear section during the cutting process under bright lights .
Possible that the delay in surfacing the chopper is due to the marginal chance of recovery of the men .

It seems to have been said a lot about the eagerness to get underneath the aircraft to see if the two missing crew are under there. I'm just thinking out loud here but I'm guessing it's not sitting on a nice neat sand bed and for all we know there is a huge rock crevice beneath it that nobody has been able to access yet.
The side door and pontoon have already been recovered so there was definitely an opening in the aircraft as it sank.
We can only hope they find the find the crew when the lift happens.

Gaoth Laidir

The best hurlers are on the sideline...