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Child Item

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

sparrowcar

Contact lost just before 0100 off the west coast of Achill island on a rescue mission.
Search in progress including all available ships and Rescue 115.

Hopefully a positive outcome to this.

Please keep replies civil, and respectful of the crew and their families.

Please do not speculate as to any cause unless you have a factual basis to do so (and can back it up with information released to the public).

There will be zero tolerance for troublemakers or those that choose to ignore these guidelines.

There are other moderator messages in the thread, as a result of issues that have arisen, and we will be less forgiving going forward, due to the ongoing sensitivity of this incident

As per normal boards guidance, any comments on moderation are off topic and should be addressed directly to mods or cmods by PM. Any part of posts which are off topic in such a manner may be edited or removed, with possible sanction. Non news posts will be moved to the parallel R116 Non news and discussion thread

Should any new reports, updates or news stories come out, posts which can be boiled down to "I Told You So" or other triumphalism about previous commentary will result in significant punishment.

Any threadbans will carry over to any replacement thread should this approach 10,000 posts

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livedadream

Storm 10 wrote: »

This needs to be resolved as quickly as possible, there are grieving families to consider and two weeks is a long time to have to wait to see if the two crew are in the helicopter, also what caused this accident needs to be found out ASAP as there are S92s flying around the World and if it was a technical issue they could be grounded, lets hope this weekend will see and end to the waiting for everyone.

so you'd prefer that the men who are diving put their own lives at more risk to speed up the process yeah?
that makes super good sense.

ill put a call in, lads no one gives a **** if ye get the bends or worse hurry the f up theres some lad on the internets who thinks you should be going faster..

elastico

Storm 10 wrote: »

This needs to be resolved as quickly as possible, there are grieving families to consider and two weeks is a long time to have to wait to see if the two crew are in the helicopter, also what caused this accident needs to be found out ASAP as there are S92s flying around the World and if it was a technical issue they could be grounded, lets hope this weekend will see and end to the waiting for everyone.

I'd be surprised if the investigators don't know the cause at this stage.

Storm 10

This needs to be resolved as quickly as possible, there are grieving families to consider and two weeks is a long time to have to wait to see if the two crew are in the helicopter, also what caused this accident needs to be found out ASAP as there are S92s flying around the World and if it was a technical issue they could be grounded, lets hope this weekend will see and end to the waiting for everyone.

elastico

A private operator lifted the Pete Charles, but months after the sinking, possibly because it happened in winter.

Prior to that though the Navy had dived to the wreck, so they seem to be treating this in a similar fashion.

challengemaster

Cianmcliam wrote: »

Surely they wouldn't have been able to even formulate a plan before diving to see the state of the wreck and any obstacles, would they have been able to find divers to do this any earlier than the Garda/Navy diving teams?

Based on their website they have their own divers and ROV

We can Mobilise at a moments notice whatever the requirement, be it a disabled vessel drifting, a sinking yacht or a grounded ship.We have our own pumps, air bags, divers, patches, Salvage masters, Naval architect, Personal to prepare the risk assessments and method statements and Marine plant ready to go. Our proven track record speaks for itself in this area

As for doing it earlier than the Garda teams, who knows?

ectoraige

youtheman wrote: »

At first I admired the people involved in the recovery operation, then I wondered why they persisted in a process that was so subject to weather, now I am getting frustrated as they seem to flip flop from one plan to another (and I can only imagine what the Next of Kin are feeling). The crew of that aircraft deserve better. They deserve the best available resources. Another weekend is passing with no sign of completion. I would describe the whole operation as akin to trying to eat soup with a gold plated fork.

I don't think you comprehend the difficulty of what's involved, and to be frank comes across as disrespectful to the people involved in the search. It is not just a salvage operation, it is a recovery operation, as well as a forensic investigation. Many of them are searching for their own colleagues. Recovery operations where the person has been lost in freshwater are difficult enough, nevermind the Atlantic. I'm desperately hoping on the behalf of the families that there is a positive outcome, but sadly not every recovery ends as desired.

livedadream

wexandproud wrote: »

CJhaughey wrote: »

The Ocean Challenger is owned by Atlantic Marine and Towage who are salvage experts, this is their bread and butter.
Probably no-one else in Ireland has their experience and track record of salvage.
With all due respect neither the Navy, the Marine Institute or Irish Lights are equipped or have the experience to do this job.
IMHO they should have been contracted at the earliest opportunity for this job.

if this company was called in as soon as wreckage was located it would be on the surface by now.
The navy and the other vessels involved would be holding the whole operation up

sure they cant just raise it up out of the water, its not a rock their pulling up, its a helicopter which is part of an investigation and retrieval of remains. the other vessels and the navy/gardai are not holding things up, they have no reason to.. have some respect for people doing a very difficult job.

LiamaDelta

wexandproud wrote:

if this company was called in as soon as wreckage was located it would be on the surface by now. The navy and the other vessels involved would be holding the whole operation up

But it's not a salvage operation. It's firstly an operation to see if the bodies of the crew are on board and hopefully retrieve them if they are. That certainly isn't what a salvage company does. You may have wreckage on the surface, but at what cost.

Cianmcliam

youtheman wrote: »

At first I admired the people involved in the recovery operation, then I wondered why they persisted in a process that was so subject to weather, now I am getting frustrated as they seem to flip flop from one plan to another (and I can only imagine what the Next of Kin are feeling). The crew of that aircraft deserve better. They deserve the best available resources. Another weekend is passing with no sign of completion. I would describe the whole operation as akin to trying to eat soup with a gold plated fork.

Is there anything to suggest that a commercial operation would have been able to operate in the kind of weather and swell around the island over the last two weeks? Surely they wouldn't have been able to even formulate a plan before diving to see the state of the wreck and any obstacles, would they have been able to find divers to do this any earlier than the Garda/Navy diving teams?

LiamaDelta

youtheman wrote:

(and I can only imagine what the Next of Kin are feeling). The crew of that aircraft deserve better. They deserve the best available resources.

I reckon the families are very grateful that such care and attention is being taken and they are involved in the whole process.

youtheman

At first I admired the people involved in the recovery operation, then I wondered why they persisted in a process that was so subject to weather, now I am getting frustrated as they seem to flip flop from one plan to another (and I can only imagine what the Next of Kin are feeling). The crew of that aircraft deserve better. They deserve the best available resources. Another weekend is passing with no sign of completion. I would describe the whole operation as akin to trying to eat soup with a gold plated fork.

wexandproud

CJhaughey wrote: »

The Ocean Challenger is owned by Atlantic Marine and Towage who are salvage experts, this is their bread and butter.
Probably no-one else in Ireland has their experience and track record of salvage.
With all due respect neither the Navy, the Marine Institute or Irish Lights are equipped or have the experience to do this job.
IMHO they should have been contracted at the earliest opportunity for this job.

if this company was called in as soon as wreckage was located it would be on the surface by now.
The navy and the other vessels involved would be holding the whole operation up

L1011

The water-tightness or not of the cabin is not of huge importance. Please stop the back and forth about it

CJhaughey

Macca07 wrote: »

Sorry if that's the understanding already, but just curious why the Ocean Challenger has been sent.

The Ocean Challenger is owned by Atlantic Marine and Towage who are salvage experts, this is their bread and butter.
Probably no-one else in Ireland has their experience and track record of salvage.
With all due respect neither the Navy, the Marine Institute or Irish Lights are equipped or have the experience to do this job.
IMHO they should have been contracted at the earliest opportunity for this job.

Alun

Macca07 wrote: »

Would it be possible to raise the wreckage from the ocean floor by a few feet using airbag equipment, use the Ocean Challenger to drag the wreckage away from rocks, so the Granuaile can position itself correctly above the wreckage to lift it?

Sorry if that's the understanding already, but just curious why the Ocean Challenger has been sent.

Going by the accounts of the retrieval of the yacht carried out by the same ship, I'd say that's a possibility.

RonanFarrell

They'd have been doing well to recover a body from the cockpit without letting any water in.

Cloudio9

The helicopter wasn't watertight to begin with. It's not a submarine. Even a pressurised airplane cabin is not watertight (or airtight).

elastico

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

correct, possibly adding buoyancy to the craft,

So you think after colliding with an island, crashing into the sea and hitting the seabed it's full of air tight compartments which are adding buoyancy meaning easier lift?

AndyBoBandy

elastico wrote: »

Any if they are still watertight they must still be airtight surely, and full of air maybe, as they are watertight, and the water can't get in, right?

correct, possibly adding buoyancy to the craft,

elastico

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

So you've all established that the crew compartment is no longer watertight, although it is most likely the largest compartment by volume, it is not the only compartment on the craft.

Tell us which other compartments there are then. And what volume they are, and how this will affect things.

Apart from the main crew section there isn't much really.

Any if they are still watertight they must still be airtight surely, and full of air maybe, as they are watertight, and the water can't get in, right?

Gadgetman496

Cianmcliam wrote: »

I think I saw photos of at least one of the sponsons that had detached too.

Correct.

Macca07

Would it be possible to raise the wreckage from the ocean floor by a few feet using airbag equipment, use the Ocean Challenger to drag the wreckage away from rocks, so the Granuaile can position itself correctly above the wreckage to lift it?

Sorry if that's the understanding already, but just curious why the Ocean Challenger has been sent.

Cianmcliam

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

If in fact the mention of the tail section making contact with the rock is true? I'm sure the damage would render that section susceptible to water intake too.

I think I saw photos of at least one of the sponsons that had detached too.

Gadgetman496

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

So you've all established that the crew compartment is no longer watertight, although it is most likely the largest compartment by volume, it is not the only compartment on the craft.

If in fact the mention of the tail section making contact with the rock is true? I'm sure the damage would render that section susceptible to water intake too.

AndyBoBandy

So you've all established that the crew compartment is no longer watertight, although it is most likely the largest compartment by volume, it is not the only compartment on the craft.

Gadgetman496

I have not heard mention of it but it would be interesting to know if the R116 landing gear was down or not when the divers got to the wreckage.

Gadgetman496

The fact that the first crew member was recovered on the surface means that crew member had to exit the craft somehow, Water tight it is not.

vicwatson

livedadream wrote: »

he didnt work it out, so how is he wrong?
and who said it is no longer water tight? only 9 men have been down there...
plus maybe three watching the RVO and that cant tell coz you know its under water and all...

Was cutting equipment not already used to remove the roof of the helicopter? Thought Pat McGrath said that the other day.

It's hardly still watertight also given the fact the found and removed Capt Mark Duffy from the cockpit??

http://www.thejournal.ie/rescue-116-flight-recorder-found-3305552-Mar2017/

Gadgetman496

livedadream wrote: »

he didnt work it out, so how is he wrong?
and who said it is no longer water tight? only 9 men have been down there...
plus maybe three watching the RVO and that cant tell coz you know its under water and all...

One of the first pictures of the wreckage to air on TV was the large side sliding door. It most definitely is not water tight.

jmayo

Tabnabs wrote: »

Oh no, please report me to the internet police! :eek:

That is not a thirty tonne crane. I'm licences to operate a ships crane of up to fives tonnes capacity and it was significantly bigger than that thing.

Ehhh that's not the tug in question.
That is the Ocean Bank not the Ocean Challenger. :rolleyes:
And the Ocean Bank has a 30 tonne crane according to their website.

These guys are experts at marine salvage, the Commissioner of Irish Lights are not.
Neither for that matter are our Naval Service or the Marine Institute.
So lets bring in experts and hopefully get a speedy resolution.

These guys have worked with Marine Institute and Coast Guard in the past and at this stage would known their capabilities.

And could we have less of the mickie waving about who has or has not been on a tug or operated a crane.
I think at this stage that company have a fair idea of what they are doing.