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Child Item

The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

The Cush

Announced this morning - http://www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2014/0923/645685-rte-radio-1-moves-from-longwave-transmission/

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/static/2014/0821/638554-stay-tuned/
http://static.rasset.ie/documents/radio1/rte-radio-1-staytuned.pdf

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The Parish Priest.

galtee boy wrote: »

Must be, all I know is that my brother who lives in South West London area, tells me it used to be very listenable both in car and portable radio, but over last 6 months or so, reception is very poor now.

They did say in 2014 that they would reduce hours in 2016 which didn't happen, so I guess they may have reduced power instead

The Parish Priest.

Surely RTEs annual Eurovision expenditure is a far bigger waste of money then lw ? http://m.herald.ie/news/rte-spent-337000-on-byrnes-failed-bid-to-conquer-eurovision-35528398.html

dxhound2005

RTE TV were charging €6,500 for a 30 second advertising slot during the Eurovision Final last year (May 2016), which is one of the higher rates. If Ireland had got to the final that would have been €13,000, which exceeds every other slot including the Late Late. That would be more lucrative than advertising on LW.

https://tvmediasales.rte.ie/planning-kit/planning-essentials/costs/published-spot-prices/

The Parish Priest.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

RTE TV were charging €6,500 for a 30 second advertising slot during the Eurovision Final last year (May 2016), which is one of the higher rates. If Ireland had got to the final that would have been €13,000, which exceeds every other slot including the Late Late. That would be more lucrative than advertising on LW.

https://tvmediasales.rte.ie/planning-kit/planning-essentials/costs/published-spot-prices/

I'd be surprised if they tried that again as the ratings for both semi finals and final have fallen pretty low the last couple of years.

dxhound2005

When the rates for May are published on that site we can check that. What were the actual viewing figures for the last couple of years compared to previous?

I notice that RTE were charging €28,500 for 30 seconds during the All Ireland Finals last year. I have to think that the figures are not just pulled out of the air and they felt justified based on potential audience in going for €13,000 if Ireland had reached the Eurovision Final.

The Parish Priest.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When the rates for May are published on that site we can check that. What were the actual viewing figures for the last couple of years compared to previous?

I notice that RTE were charging €28,500 for 30 seconds during the All Ireland Finals last year. I have to think that the figures are not just pulled out of the air and they felt justified based on potential audience in going for €13,000 if Ireland had reached the Eurovision Final.

Thread below from last year has the figures https://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2057525906/2

Mickey Mike

Karsini wrote: »

100 kW by day and 60 kW by night was reported on here a while back.

I would rather reduced hours of operation, with full power between 7am to 7pm, at least then you'll hear something.

burnsey1987

I would also favour tightening of EMC compliance regulations for high-volume consumer electronic products. I can only listen to MW in one room in my apartment anymore. That wasn't the case 20 years ago in the absence of switch-mode PSUs, Wi-Fi routers, CFL lightbulbs and all such other noise sources

[Deleted User]

As long as it doesn't effect the telly no one will give a SH1t.

We've moved to the country and the difference is amazing.

Magnetic loops are supposed to be excellent at rejecting RFI. Then you need a radio that can accept a external antenna for MW/LW and some loops do not cover the MW/LW bands.

Most people have external antennas for TV and external antennas for radio should be the norm too.

http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/ALA1530PE-1

The wellbrooks get great reviews but are expensive. Good for an SDR reciever like the SDR Play.

The Cush

UK's Department for Culture, Media & Sport published a consultation on Commercial radio deregulation about a month ago. The consultation outlines their proposals on how they intend to deregulate commercial radio.

Concentrating on one particular aspect in relation to this thread, the consultation seeks "views on the option of removing the current restriction on overseas-based radio services from being able to apply to Ofcom for a licence to be carried on UK DAB multiplexes, even where the station in question is willing to be subject to regulation by Ofcom".

One of the requirements of the current structures is that radio stations have to be based in the UK to secure a licence. This contrasts with the position on television where audio visual services can be licensed in any EU or EEA country under the provisions contained in the AudioVisual Media Services Directive (AVMSD).

This approach for radio services clearly made sense when spectrum was limited in order to allow for the development of commercial national and local FM services. However, the restriction also applies to digital sound programme (DSP) licences carried on DAB. This restriction has had a direct impact on RTE radio, the Irish National broadcaster. Although their services have been carried in the UK since the 1930s on Long Wave, they are not able to offer services in DAB.

As part of wider radio deregulation, we want to consider whether Ofcom should have more flexibility to license overseas radio stations carried on DAB. If this were extended, overseas stations that were licensed would need to meet the normal requirements for DSP services (including meeting the Ofcom Broadcasting Code).

Q2. We would welcome views on this proposal and whether it should be limited to Irish broadcasters or more widely and if so whether Ministers should need powers to allow licensing to be extended to other countries?

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/commercial-radio-deregulation-consultation

ei9go

Was in South Wales for the last few days and any further than Brigend, the co channel interference from Algeria was very bad.
They can't be running any meaningful power. I have listened to 252 in the car in France Belguim and Holland but now go as far as Cardiff and the signal level is terrible.

kazoo106

Had an early morning meeting today in Belfast. For the day that's in it, and with the breaking news on the death of Martin McGuinness, I was listening to Morning Ireland.
Reception was perfect on 87.8 until about Dunmurry - after this and on the westlink I had no choice but to change over to 252 as the FM reception there was terrible. 252 for all its sins was perfect everywhere with the exception of under bridges but that's to be accepted.

My point is this. Without getting political, half the people up there consider RTE to be the national broadcaster. In two years time, they will cut the only reliable reception in what is the second city on this island.

I am astonished that nobody has highlighted this, however it is not surprising considering how far removed from reality some people in Montrose are.

252 should be preserved until reliable FM reception is available in Belfast - Don't start me on DAB. Because RTE can't even get that right even where they have jurisdiction.

Tune in is NOT an option for someone roaming from the south while I accept that data charges might not apply to the UK mobile networks.

The Parish Priest.

kazoo106 wrote: »

Had an early morning meeting today in Belfast. For the day that's in it, and with the breaking news on the death of Martin McGuinness, I was listening to Morning Ireland.
Reception was perfect on 87.8 until about Dunmurry - after this and on the westlink I had no choice but to change over to 252 as the FM reception there was terrible. 252 for all its sins was perfect everywhere with the exception of under bridges but that's to be accepted.

My point is this. Without getting political, half the people up there consider RTE to be the national broadcaster. In two years time, they will cut the only reliable reception in what is the second city on this island.

I am astonished that nobody has highlighted this, however it is not surprising considering how far removed from reality some people in Montrose are.

252 should be preserved until reliable FM reception is available in Belfast - Don't start me on DAB. Because RTE can't even get that right even where they have jurisdiction.

Tune in is NOT an option for someone roaming from the south while I accept that data charges might not apply to the UK mobile networks.

I'd imagine there might be a small scale dab opportunity in Belfast too ?

kazoo106

Small scale DAB will do little until every car has DAB - and I don't believe that small scale will provide the coverage required. This got me thinking. One of the things I noticed today too was how strong Spirit were on 549 in Belfast city centre. On another thread it's mentioned that spirit are only currently operating at 4-5kW and if this is the case it makes a VERY strong case for RTE to acquire or share an AM site to re-activate say 10-15kW on either 567 or 612 from North Monaghan.
This will completely solve the Northern Ireland coverage problem at a fraction of the cost of 252 - it will also bring AM coverage back to 100% of car radios (as many have dropped LW
I also recall in 1988, the pirate Kiss FM operated with 10kw from just outside Glaslough on 1008kHz and subsequently 1413kHz - again with a very satisfactory signal to nearly as far as Glasgow.
The case is there and it shoulld not be discounted - NI also has a large MW audience with Radio Ulster, Absolute, Talksport, Downtown all still using AM.
Id be interested in whether anyone else shares my views.

The Parish Priest.

I can't realistically see RTE returning to Medium wave after leaving the band a decade ago... it should also be noted that the overwhelming majority of complaints about closing LW (97% according to RTE) came from mainland Britain so presumably RTE Radio 1 isn't that popular in the parts of NI that can't get it on FM ?

Former Former

kazoo106 wrote: »

Had an early morning meeting today in Belfast. For the day that's in it, and with the breaking news on the death of Martin McGuinness, I was listening to Morning Ireland.
Reception was perfect on 87.8 until about Dunmurry - after this and on the westlink I had no choice but to change over to 252 as the FM reception there was terrible. 252 for all its sins was perfect everywhere with the exception of under bridges but that's to be accepted.

My point is this. Without getting political, half the people up there consider RTE to be the national broadcaster. In two years time, they will cut the only reliable reception in what is the second city on this island.

I am astonished that nobody has highlighted this, however it is not surprising considering how far removed from reality some people in Montrose are.

252 should be preserved until reliable FM reception is available in Belfast - Don't start me on DAB. Because RTE can't even get that right even where they have jurisdiction.

Tune in is NOT an option for someone roaming from the south while I accept that data charges might not apply to the UK mobile networks.

You are MASSIVELY overstating how much demand there is in the North for RTE radio.

RTE can't just plonk an FM transmitter in the North, the best they can do is put them as close to the border as possible, which is exactly what they've done.

Between FM, satellite, Saorview overspill, Virgin Media and the internet, anyone who really wants RTE in the North can get it handy enough. It's no argument to retain LW.

Sam Russell

Former Former wrote: »

You are MASSIVELY overstating how much demand there is in the North for RTE radio.

RTE can't just plonk an FM transmitter in the North, the best they can do is put them as close to the border as possible, which is exactly what they've done.

Between FM, satellite, Saorview overspill, Virgin Media and the internet, anyone who really wants RTE in the North can get it handy enough. It's no argument to retain LW.

But it might be a case for moving the LW to MW, as in a car, most cars have MW but few have LW. In a car, you do not have FM, satellite, Soarview or internet.

[Deleted User]

No one should be forced to use the internet to listen to radio. Radio us much easier to use in a car than internet radio, it's illegal to play with your phone while driving etc.

People underestimate the vulnerability of the internet and relying on it as much as we do is a mistake and removing analogue lw/mw and SW radio would in my opinion be a huge mistake.

Every house should have a multi band radio capable of receiving Shortwave too.

Oscarziggy

Deleted User wrote: »

No one should be forced to use the internet to listen to radio. Radio us much easier to use in a car than internet radio, it's illegal to play with your phone while driving etc.

People underestimate the vulnerability of the internet and relying on it as much as we do is a mistake and removing analogue lw/mw and SW radio would in my opinion be a huge mistake.

Every house should have a multi band radio capable of receiving Shortwave too.

Agree 100% ---trouble is people haven't got the foggiest idea of how to listen to what and where on a LW/MW radio let alone a SW radio.
Regards

dxhound2005

Oscarziggy wrote: »

Agree 100% ---trouble is people haven't got the foggiest idea of how to listen to what and where on a LW/MW radio let alone a SW radio.
Regards

I think the point of the campaign in GB is that elderly Irish people there can only figure out how to listen on long wave.

It is the internet and satellite TV delivery which they cannot cope with, and the same for DAB if that is offered as a replacement.

The Parish Priest.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I think the point of the campaign in GB is that elderly Irish people there can only figure out how to listen on long wave.

It is the internet and satellite TV delivery which they cannot cope with, and the same for DAB if that is offered as a replacement.

Tbh I think most of them do use the internet, a lot of them are very active on social media, they just prefer the convenience of listening on an normal radio, understandable really when you consider that millions of people in the uk still listen to AM Radio every day.

dxhound2005

The Parish Priest. wrote: »

Tbh I think most of them do use the internet, a lot of them are very active on social media, they just prefer the convenience of listening on an normal radio, understandable really when you consider that millions of people in the uk still listen to AM Radio every day.

That is the first time I have seen that point of view in relation to the campaign. It would justify RTE switching off LW if it is only there for the convenience of a very small number of listeners.

But again my definite understanding of the argument being put forward is that those listeners would not be able to use any technology except LW.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/generation-emigration/rt%C3%A9-longwave-radio-a-proven-lifeline-for-elderly-irish-in-britain-1.2678455

RTÉ initially suggested longwave listeners could simply switch over to digital platforms. The majority of listeners, however, said they would need help in figuring out how to access these, and 68 per cent said they knew no one who could help them. 72 per cent were over the age of 60, and 45 per cent were above 70. Only 41 per cent attend or use the services of Irish organisations in the UK, meaning there would be difficulties in reaching those who need assistance in changing technologies. A third of listeners live alone, with half having health issues such as reduced vision or hearing and mobility problems.

Oscarziggy

I was commenting on what Mad_Lad said about removing MW/LW and SW radio and relying on the internet.
Quote :People underestimate the vulnerability of the internet and relying on it as much as we do is a mistake and removing analogue lw/mw and SW radio would in my opinion be a huge mistake.

Regards

[Deleted User]

People would be able to use multiband radios no problem if they needed/had to.

Internet works fine for radio but is a pain because you need signal all over the house , garden etc and tethering to your phone is going to chew your battery. Internet radio also offers clear signal and you can listen to stations world wide. One disadvantage is that the quality of many stations is deplorable with 16 Kbps mp3 all too common and a lot of Irish stations stream at a very poor 56 Kbps mp3 which can sound dreadful depending on the content, music, speech etc.

Internet radio is good in the car but difficult to use and again, need a good signal, data plan. Though three.ie are by far the best in value for money and huge GB limit.

Anyway, I think that it's regrettable that we rely on the internet for far too much as it is so imagine a huge piece of infrastructure down like the internet and not being able to receive TV or radio ? and a lot of uplinks today to transmitters are via the internet and not dedicated links.

A lot of radio transmitters such as radio Luxembourg on the old 1440 Khz was shut down 2 years ago and as far as I remember completely dismantled, I think it's a huge mistake to do this.

The keys of the internet are to be handed over from U.S control thanks to Barack Obama and I'm not sure if it's been completed yet but I know the Chinese were bidding heavily to have control, imagine that, so whoever gets control can do pretty much whatever they want , I think the Russians wants control, everyone wants control of the internet.

Imagine geo blocked radio ? the BBC do this already with their HD Radio streams. Imagine receiving radio that Governments only want you receiving ? well, look at the control the Germans want on social media, for instance this whole fake news crap we keep hearing about, they want to censor all "they" deem as fake so we can't decide for ourselves, Obama was planning on such practices also.

So the internet as we know it may in the not so distant future be coming to an end.

Former Former

I would imagine the failure of a single obsolete piece of equipment in a field in Meath is a lot more likely than the failure of the Internet.

And if the Internet does fail, the unavailability of Radio 1 Extra will be pretty low down the list of things to worry about.

Sam Russell

Boards.ie was knocked out a while ago by a DDOS attack. The internet is vulnerable - I have yet to get RTEplayer to work properly on my smart TV.

A MW or LW transmitter is quite robust in comparison.

Elmo

Was thinking about this. Would the minister have approve of the ending of LW under the Broadcasting act and now to any new service from RTÉ.

kazoo106

Why is it that people in this country want to re-invent the wheel and fix what isn't broken? The Tunein portal was down this week for over a day, while as I post this, the Meteor data network appears down across large parts.
Need I say any more with regard to streaming as a primary service?

The Parish Priest.

Even if 252 finally does close in 2019, the campaigners have played a very good game in fairness, 2019 will be 6 years since RTE first wanted to close it and 17 years since Teamtalk 252 closed, I don't think many people would have imagined that lw transmission from Clarkstown would live on for almost 2 decades after the sudden demise of teamtalk 252

The Parish Priest.

Elmo wrote: »

Was thinking about this. Would the minister have approve of the ending of LW under the Broadcasting act and now to any new service from RTÉ.

Not at all. RTE Radio doesn't have the same shackles as television, shackles that were only placed on RTE television thanks to lobbying by tv3