J.pilkington wrote: » Also if a product / service is successful of course there will be new entrants. Every other city to city route in the country has multi operators competing against each other and I don't hear half the outcry..
devnull wrote: » They are not charging ten euro single anymore they are charging ten euro return which is not sustainable at all and coupled with their timetable and free tickets it is clear what their intention is and what type of tactics they are employing.
devnull wrote: » There is one major difference. Those services are regulated by the NTA and the NTA requires similar services to go from different stops and be time split by thirty minutes to stop this behaviour
J.pilkington wrote: » I'm sure all the bus Éireann staff had a similar outcry when they were threatened by aircoach
J.pilkington wrote: » Every other city to city route in the country has multi operators competing against each other and I don't hear half the outcry.
J.pilkington wrote: » Remember citilink even operated their non stop service with no licence for a very long time, scheduling a similar service is hardly a patch on this.
J.pilkington wrote: » Missed the €10 return. In their defence it very clearly states "introductory offer" so obvious that this won't be a long term thing. They are hardly planning on setting up a route with the aim of losing money. As I said they are trying to establish themselves, it's a marketing campaign that all companies undertake. Absolutely nothing strange about it. Ryanair do it, Tesco do it, newspapers do it, utility companies do it.
J.pilkington wrote: » If it's not illegal what's the problem? It's a similar argument to tax evasion / avoidance. One is illegal one isn't. I'm sure all the bus Éireann staff had a similar outcry when they were threatened by aircoach
devnull wrote: » Aircoach never ran below cost pricing.. Free buses or buses from the same stop or directly behind or in front of any service. Huge difference. Also the NTA does not allow such timetables as Dublin coach because they believe it is not in interest of the public long term and all examples of similar behaviour in the UK have proven the public never win long term.
J.pilkington wrote: » what were the launch / promotional / discount fares (call them what you want) charged by aircoach / citylink / go bus etc when they launched their service?
devnull wrote: » None of them on launch day undercut the competitions cash fares by almost 70% on opening day. Besides you compare apples and oranges the timetable and fares are part of the same tactic. Such. Tactic is not possible on non cross border routes.
J.pilkington wrote: » So you are saying other firms have not ran limited time promotional offers? Aircoach have an effective monopoly on this route(newry disqualified BE), what do companies do that have no competition, yes they have high fares. Not to mention that aircoach will have higher running costs than DB Also can you please qualify your statements as you opinion / assumption / guesses as you can not possibly know what anyone's" tactics" are. At the end of the day it's a cheaper and quicker service to the competitors (aircoach, bus eireann and Irish rail) so best of luck to them, I'll refrain from judging / writing off / baseless accusations until some wheels have moved.
devnull wrote: » On one hand you claim Monopoly and other you talk about competition which one is it? There is no problem with the service. The nature of the timetable is not designed to give passengers more choice. Why do you think they picked the time and stop they did? My issue is the combination of everything they are doing. Historical proof shows whenever such tactics are used passengers lose outy
J.pilkington wrote: » If you want to go Dublin to Belfast in a quick time then aircoach currently have a monopoly on this and customers are willing to pay to avoid newry which adds substantial time(as you have previously stated a massive massive amount of times when promoting aircoach over BE to potential customers on this forum). It doesn't mean that BE and Irish rail can't be competitors in other ways. You earlier accused me of not addressing the pinpoints I raised, you are doing the exact same Like yourself I have no idea why the reason for the departure times, could be thousands of reasons. As you say maybe it's bus Éireann? If it's purely to steal customers (even though on paper DCs offer a better service than aircoach) Surely they would have chosen a time 5 mins before? They get to grab the best bus parking spot and people will want the earliest departure. Man I've never seen someone so passionate about a bus company(I am only putting across DCs defence to an ambush and all my posts are counter arguments) At the end of the day DCs service is going to be a cheaper and quicker service to the competitors (aircoach, bus eireann and Irish rail) so best of luck to them, I'll refrain from judging / writing off / baseless accusations until some wheels have moved.
devnull wrote: » Of course. Because history shows that operators who operate services from same stops at cut down prices or for free just happen to do it as a coincidence and for no other reason. Simple fact is that I am not defending anyone merely calling an operator out for a practice that the national transport authority of this country believes is not in the customer interest which is why they do not allow it on national routes. Just to be clear are you calling for full deregulation? Since this is what you seem to be asking for and have no problem with. A free for all has shown in the UK that it does not work long term and these kind of practices have been rampant there and often don't end well for anyone.
J.pilkington wrote: » So you are saying other firms have not ran limited time promotional offers? Please address this question
J.pilkington wrote: » Like yourself I have no idea why the reason for the departure times, could be thousands of reasons. As you say maybe it's bus Éireann? If it's purely to steal customers (even though on paper DCs offer a better service than aircoach) Surely they would have chosen a time 5 mins before? They get to grab the best bus parking spot and people will want the earliest departure.
J.pilkington wrote: » I think you missed my earlier comment re times
devnull wrote: » If you read the earlier post I made referencing the UK market investigation you will see that operators have done both before and after and such behaviour was mentioned not just before.
devnull wrote: » No other operator has discounted fares heavily directly entering a market and running at virtually the same time from the same stop. That is my biggest issue. The reason is transport professionals decided that such practice of timetabling is against the interests of the public. This is f fact and is stated by the NTA in their own rules and guidelines.
mickmmc wrote: » Dublin Coach will have to invest over €15m to replace the 52 coaches over 13 years old (mentioned above) over the next few years. My point is that they should be investing in new coaches for existing services rather than for a new service.
J.pilkington wrote: » That is not specifically what you complained about earlier. You keep moving the goal posts when I counter your accusations and you ignore my points and move onto another accusation now you are combing everything, what's next the colour green on a bus?
J.pilkington wrote: » At the end of the day DCs service is going to be a cheaper and quicker service to the competitors (aircoach, bus eireann and Irish rail) so best of luck to them, I'll refrain from judging / writing off / baseless accusations until some wheels have moved.
J.pilkington wrote: » If the doomsday that you predict happens and both DC and aircoach run out of money because both are offering free journeys and shut up shop I'll gladly start a city to city service because there is demand for it.
J.pilkington wrote: » Can you back up your claim of a predatory motive. Neither of us know the reason for the selected times. I have put forward possible reasons but I am guessing like you. Why are my possible reasons for selecting the particular times wrong and yours right?
Predatory tactics can include upping the frequency of buses to "crowd out" rivals or timing buses to run just in front and sometimes also just behind a rival's buses. It also said bus groups could hit competition by cutting fares significantly or running buses for free."
In the interest of public transport users and having taken account of market demand the Authority will, when appropriate, endeavour to ensure that, licensed services are separated in time from other services along the route or in the neighbourhood/vicinity of the route, whether those other services are licensed or are Public Service Obligation services. This will create an integrated system of services that will support the long-term availability and spread of services for public transport users. Indicative time separations are set out below: Express services 30 minute time separation from other express services. The Authority may reject all or part of an application if the proposed service could result in head-to-head competition with an existing licence holder, jeopardising the preservation of good order and safety on public roads.
devnull wrote: » the remaining operator puts up prices and then the public end up no better off and in some cases worse off as the now monopoly operator.
mickmmc wrote: » The last time I travelled on Aircoach to Belfast their Jonckheere coaches were a bit tired (nearly 9 years old). Dublin Coach are taking advantage of that by putting 171 Coaches on their new service. Aircoach will need to purchase new coaches or put the 162 and 171 Panthers on the Belfast service to compete with their competitors.
J.pilkington wrote: » At the end of the day DCs service is going to be a cheaper and quicker service to the competitors (aircoach, bus eireann and Irish rail) so best of luck to them.
J.pilkington wrote: » Just to maybe correct a slight inaccuracy in the post which you pulled your info from earlier in this thread, having buses on a licence does not mean the are regularly used, they may be back up / retired but it makes sense to keep them on a licence. I see this all the time in the haulage industry, so it's unfair to use the average age that the other poster pulled. Plus the fleet is also used on the quickpark route where a lot of the older (04) bendy buses are used. As they say statistics can be masaged to give many different versions of the truth(not a dig at you)
devnull wrote: » So are you basically saying that you consider that the services are predatory,
