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RIP Martin McGuinness

thee glitz

Former Deputy First Minister of NI Martin McGuinness has died. May he RIP.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0321/861287-martin-mcguinness-death/

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Ted111

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Did I just hear Arlene Foster having a little "dig" in her "tribute" just now on the News?

If she publicly paid unqualified sympathy it would alienate her support/vote base. So qualifies it with mentioning victims of rep violence. It was reported that she privately expressed good wishes to him when he was in hospital.

Chrissybhoy

RIP freedom fighter peacemaker leader commander LEGEND

[Deleted User]

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Exactly why is that funny ? They're talking about murdered people whose families to this day don't know where their loved ones are buried.

Cry me a river. If you can't see what egregiously predatory and utterly odious creatures tabloid journalists are, then there's nothing I can do. I am so utterly unmoved by this sudden opposition to murdering people from a British tabloid, fresh from quotidian glorifications of the mass murder across the world of the poppy-loving heroes of the British Empire.

The natives fight back against British colonial occupation = "terrorism!", screams John Bull. Britannia invades most countries on the planet (you missed 22, I believe), kills the natives and exploits their resources for centuries - "Break out the poppies, old bean; we must commemorate these heroes!"

steddyeddy

Noddyholder wrote: »

People reading about Martin MC Guinness story shouldent start with why he joined the IRA , but should start with the horrible wretched violent bigoted state forced upon him and a whole population.

No you got it wrong. Carson, unionist started a terror group because he felt under siege. That's OK according to unionists. Catholics tortured, interned and discrimnated agains't and it's wrong.

murpho999

Rjd2 wrote: »

I thought Channel 4 news tonight was pretty well balanced.

It had numerous different viewpoints featured such as a Sinn Fein member, Allistar Campbell, Eamon Mc Cann and some relatives of those killed by the IRA featured. It was very interesting.

I wouldn't bother with the trashier tabloid right wing newspapers whatsoever when it comes to his death and I say that as someone who was no great fan of the man.

When I said media I meant more the newspapers than TV News but I can imagine that C4 did a decent job, they normally do. I will look at up later.

It's easy to dismiss the tabloid papers but they have a lot of readers and are influential.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

No you got it wrong. Carson, unionist started a terror group because he felt under siege. That's OK according to unionists. Catholics tortured, interned and discrimnated agains't and it's wrong.

ManicMoran has a handy little litmus test he posted, have you run it on Carson? What boxes did he tick?

timthumbni

It appears that a lot of republicans on here want to air brush martins very, very dodgy past out of the picture. Unfortunately life doesn't work like that and your past actions are often examined especially someone in the public eye like mcguiness.

It's also quite interesting that some on here are getting worked up over the nerve of a uk newspaper site (a very widely read one at that) bringing up his IRA career. Of course it's very relevant and it's also right that some of the many, many victims of Irish republican violence get to air their views.

If republicans want a non critical story full of sweetness and pixie dust they can always buy the Irish news or an problact (spelling?)

Berserker

Irish Republicans continue to baffle me. You appear to have more interest in attacking Unionism than mourning the passing of one of your own. Incredible! I'll leave you too it.

FrancieBrady

timthumbni wrote: »

It appears that a lot of republicans on here want to air brush martins very, very dodgy past out of the picture. Unfortunately life doesn't work like that and your past actions are often examined especially someone in the public eye like mcguiness.

It's also quite interesting that some on here are getting worked up over the nerve of a uk newspaper site (a very widely read one at that) bringing up his IRA career. Of course it's very relevant and it's also right that some of the many, many victims of Irish republican violence get to air their views.

If republicans want a non critical story full of sweetness and pixie dust they can always buy the Irish news or an problact (spelling?)

Which republicans are airbrushing?

The airbrushing is being done by those who witter on about the man with two lives.
He didn't have, he never turned his back on his past, why would republicans try to do it?

stockdam

Noddyholder wrote: »

People reading about Martin MC Guinness story shouldent start with why he joined the IRA , but should start with the horrible wretched violent bigoted state forced upon him and a whole population.

Which of course "leads" to planting bombs or killing innocent people. Let's not forget that the vast majority of people who lived through those times, many of whom endured worse than MMcG but they didn't resort to violence.
McG's later career in politics was much more successful than his earlier misguided life.

PhuckHugh

timthumbni wrote: »

It appears that a lot of republicans on here want to air brush martins very, very dodgy past out of the picture. Unfortunately life doesn't work like that and your past actions are often examined especially someone in the public eye like mcguiness.

It's also quite interesting that some on here are getting worked up over the nerve of a uk newspaper site (a very widely read one at that) bringing up his IRA career. Of course it's very relevant and it's also right that some of the many, many victims of Irish republican violence get to air their views.

If republicans want a non critical story full of sweetness and pixie dust they can always buy the Irish news or an problact (spelling?)

Martin never shied away from his past - He admitted to mistakes that were made.. You also have to factor in there were more than 1 side involved...

At the end of the day the violence in Northern Ireland would have happened without Martin McGuinness. However, the peace process would have been impossible without him. The wrongs shouldn't be glossed over, Martin never did, but time will record the true greatness of the man and how he steered hardline republicans down a peaceful road.

steddyeddy

timthumbni wrote: »

It appears that a lot of republicans on here want to air brush martins very, very dodgy past out of the picture. Unfortunately life doesn't work like that and your past actions are often examined especially someone in the public eye like mcguiness.

It's also quite interesting that some on here are getting worked up over the nerve of a uk newspaper site (a very widely read one at that) bringing up his IRA career. Of course it's very relevant and it's also right that some of the many, many victims of Irish republican violence get to air their views.

If republicans want a non critical story full of sweetness and pixie dust they can always buy the Irish news or an problact (spelling?)

It's not the airbrushing of the IRA past, it's the airbrushing of the events that led to the IRA. I suppose the victim mentality gains better traction in the unionist communities.

mikeym

R.I.P.

Its a pity Martin never got to see an United Ireland.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's not the airbrushing of the IRA past, it's the airbrushing of the events that led to the IRA. I suppose the victim mentality gains better traction in the unionist communities.

Ian Paisley was at it too on Prime Time, 'the peace process was about ending the IRA campaign'.

The GFA was a document that gave the Irish government a role, extracted an admission from the British that the future was for the people of the island to decide and that they were gone, British citizens or not, that ALL the guns would be laid down, that the Unionist veto was gone forever and there would be parity of esteem and power sharing. The corrupt, partisan police force would be reformed and the north demilitarised.

Only after the above was achieved did the 'peace process' begin. When they got what they wanted the IRA disarmed.

dirtyden

Berserker wrote: »

Not surprised to hear of his passing this morning. He sounded like a broken man when he addressed the media before stepping down. For all the hurt and pain he caused on these islands, I can't see how he'll ever rest in peace. I always felt that he grew to regret his terrorist past and he understood the consequences of his actions better as time passed by.

Kudos to the British media for giving a balanced view on his life. I understand that many Irish people will never accept, aside from the usual token BS response that they roll out, that the IRA did wrong but the victims of the IRA need to be remembered on a day like this.

Also, delighted to see that the Queen took time to contact the family; a nice touch. She makes me proud to be British.

There would not have been an IRA but for Britain but they won't get into that in the British press, balanced view my eye.

Junkyard Tom

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's not the airbrushing of the IRA past, it's the airbrushing of the events that led to the IRA.

There is no cause-and-effect in the unionist victim mentality.

steddyeddy

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There is no cause-and-effect in the unionist victim mentality.

They're self destructive at the end of the day.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There is no cause-and-effect in the unionist victim mentality.

An alien looking at the RTE bio pics would be forgiven for thinking that the only violence was committed by republicans. You can almost hear the gritting of teeth in the production offices.

Junkyard Tom

steddyeddy wrote: »

They're self destructive at the end of the day.

It's like collective self-harming. Destroying the Civil Rights movement, collapsing Sunningdale, 'security forces' colluding with Protestant murder-gangs, the DUP trying to destroy the Peace Process. The DUP/Unionists voting for Brexit. Arlene energising the nationalist-republican vote ending the Unionist majority.

SF could go on holidays to the Bahamas for a few years and come back and the DUP might well have destroyed thier beloved union all by themselves.

steddyeddy

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It like collective self-harming. Destroying the Civil Rights movement, collapsing Sunningdale, 'security forces' colluding with Protestant murder-gangs, the DUP trying to destroy the Peace Process. The DUP/Unionists voting for Brexit. Arlene energising the nationalist-republican vote ending the Unionist majority.

SF could go on holidays to the Bahamas for a few years and come back and the DUP might well have destroyed thier beloved union all by themselves.

At least Martin lived to see the unionist majority fall.

bigbrotherfan

Ted111 wrote: »

If she publicly paid unqualified sympathy it would alienate her support/vote base. So qualifies it with mentioning victims of rep violence. It was reported that she privately expressed good wishes to him when he was in hospital.

She has no option but to attend the funeral. She doesn't need to do anything, just remain dignified (if possible) and keep her mouth shut. For her not to attend would be a PR disaster for her. She is meant to be the leader of Unionism, who will potentially be in a power sharing Government with Sinn Féin.

[Deleted User]

timthumbni wrote: »

It appears that a lot of republicans on here want to air brush martins very, very dodgy past out of the picture. Unfortunately life doesn't work like that

Unless you're British when centuries of a, to be comically euphemistic about it, "very, very dodgy imperial past" warrant two months of sanitised "white man's burden", pfo-to-historical-truth of union jack-clad British commemorations each year. My, what an exquisitely glorious airbrush we have in Brexitland.

Fratton Fred

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cry me a river. If you can't see what egregiously predatory and utterly odious creatures tabloid journalists are, then there's nothing I can do. I am so utterly unmoved by this sudden opposition to murdering people from a British tabloid, fresh from quotidian glorifications of the mass murder across the world of the poppy-loving heroes of the British Empire.

The natives fight back against British colonial occupation = "terrorism!", screams John Bull. Britannia invades most countries on the planet (you missed 22, I believe), kills the natives and exploits their resources for centuries - "Break out the poppies, old bean; we must commemorate these heroes!"

Such a shame. This was generally a respectable thread about the passing of a well respected man.

Shocking stuff that you can't leave your bigoted bile out of it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Today is the 14th anniversary of the start of the last gulf war. So its a bit rich when the British press talk about terrorists and the loss of innocent lives.

McGuinness fought a war which was brought to him. Indeed this country was born out on conflict and there's hardly a main political party in this country which doesn't have a bloody past.

But to finish were I started.. On the 14th anniversary of the second Gulf War I won't be too interested in any negativity the British red tops say about him.

RIP Mister McGuinness.

FrancieBrady

bigbrotherfan wrote: »

She has no option but to attend the funeral. She doesn't need to do anything, just remain dignified (if possible) and keep her mouth shut. For her not to attend would be a PR disaster for her. She is meant to be the leader of Unionism, who will potentially be in a power sharing Government with Sinn Féin.

I wonder will she.
The smart thing to do would be release a statement immediately, and stop the pressure building. By Thursday it could be a major story with all eyes on her...again, for all the wrong reasons.
Smart, doesn't seem to be in Arlene's DNA though.

osarusan

What's going to happen in Windsor Park on Sunday night?

Dyr

stooge wrote: »

Sickening reading that Daily Mail article. It could be argued that Paisley was responsible for more hatred and death in the north than any single person in the history of Northern Ireland...Yet he received generally favourable articles in the UK press upon his passing. The comment above about the England having a romantic or blinkered view of their role in the troubles seems to ring true in this regard...i.e. 'Our fine upstanding English Army gentlemen fighting those murderous republican bastard mucksavages. Best not to mention our own collusion with loyalists, internment without trial and torture chaps.'

The British Government gave McGuinness what he wanted, a statement that they had no selfish interest in Ireland and that they would respect the democratic decision of the people of this Island, North And South.

Thanks to him what the English and the Tory rags think and say about Ireland is now utterly irrelevant.

bigbrotherfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wonder will she.
The smart thing to do would be release a statement immediately, and stop the pressure building. By Thursday it could be a major story with all eyes on her...again, for all the wrong reasons.
Smart, doesn't seem to be in Arlene's DNA though.

There does seem to be a thick skin or some kind of blind spot among some leading unionists, like Arlene Foster. Perhaps she feels she must play to the unionist gallery.

Mind you, I'm sure there are many on the unionist side who would accuse many leaders among the republican side of the same thing. It depends on which side of the fence you are on.

shane.

osarusan wrote: »

What's going to happen in Windsor Park on Sunday night?

Nothing I'd imagine, won't even be acknowledged

[Deleted User]

Berserker wrote: »

I can't see how he'll ever rest in peace.... his terrorist past.... Kudos to the British media for giving a balanced view on his life.... but the victims of the IRA need to be remembered on a day like this.

... makes me proud to be British.

Funny how veteran apologists like yourself for the thuggery of your British state beyond Britain never come out with something similar about commemorating the victims of your state when a British public figure dies or when you put on your poppies to commemorate your concentration camp runners and Black and Tans every October/November. Your very British hypocrisy on political violence is as nauseating as ever.