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RIP Martin McGuinness

thee glitz

Former Deputy First Minister of NI Martin McGuinness has died. May he RIP.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0321/861287-martin-mcguinness-death/

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FrancieBrady

murpho999 wrote:

The truth is that the vast majority of British people have no idea what actually happened in NI during the troubles and think that the British only had a benign role. They see themselves as sole victims of IRA attacks whilst not knowing what happened in Northern Ireland

I would also argue that the vast majority have no idea what's occuring in Northern Ireland politics today and I do wonder if this general apathy and ignorance will eventually lead to disillusionment among Unionists and Northern Ireland leaving the UK.

Very true. 'The Irish Question' was only ever difficult because people were too lazy or disinterested to find out what the problems were.
The GFA is a very simple document.

steddyeddy

Jelle1880 wrote: »

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/01/12/news/foster-would-attend-gaa-game-but-rules-out-rising-gesture-379961/

As for Wilson, I am well aware of the backwards ideology of some hardline Unionists when it comes to LGBT rights.

Look at her recent interview on the view. Completely the opposite sentiment. No give, no flexibility and no viewpoint other than hate.

The unionists always had the idea that violence sprang from nowhere. This is the same community who organised the UVF when Ireland was about to get independence. Pot meet kettle.

munsterlegend

steddyeddy wrote: »

McGuinness shook hands with the Queen. Arelene Foster refused to go to an Irish football match or GAA game. We also have Sammy Wilson commenting on "ethnics" and the hated of homosexuals. I'm sorry but the unionist community do hate a lot better.

Sammy also not a great fan of global warming. NI unionists are viewed as the very odd distant cousins who hopefully won't keep in contact by Westminster. Even May can't bother visit hoping they will just work it out somehow.

Jelle1880

steddyeddy wrote: »

McGuinness shook hands with the Queen. Arelene Foster refused to go to an Irish football match or GAA game. We also have Sammy Wilson commenting on "ethnics" and the hated of homosexuals. I'm sorry but the unionist community do hate a lot better.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/01/12/news/foster-would-attend-gaa-game-but-rules-out-rising-gesture-379961/

NEW First Minister Arlene Foster has said she would be happy to attend a GAA match if invited

As for Wilson, I am well aware of the backwards ideology of some hardline Unionists when it comes to LGBT rights.

steddyeddy

Here's the thing. McGuiness was a victim of unionist discrimination. Not once did he say no I don't want to work with unionists because of the crimes of the past ect.

Muff Richardson

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Did I just hear Arlene Foster having a little "dig" in her "tribute" just now on the News?

what did she say? if she did, that's a serious low blow, even for herself and her ilk.

Junkyard Tom

steddyeddy wrote: »

Inside the mind of a unionist is an echo chamber; they are victims always, never the cause of the problem always the victim.

It's remarkable - they caused the troubles and attitudes like that of the person you've quoted and Jim Allister are the type which helped sustain it and were steadfastly against the peace process.

steddyeddy

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Here's the thread when Spence passed away:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74583530

As you can see, it's full of people who are happy he died. Funny enough, that first post by Einhard sums up McGuinness too. As if somehow killing people and then stopping is worthy of praise.

Your attempt to make one side seem morally superior doesn't hold up to scrutiny it seems.

McGuinness shook hands with the Queen. Arelene Foster refused to go to an Irish football match or GAA game. We also have Sammy Wilson commenting on "ethnics" and the hated of homosexuals. I'm sorry but the unionist community do hate a lot better.

Help!!!!

Nelson Mandela whose MK killed 14,000 people in 4 years was revered around the world by celebrities & probably most of the people who are calling Martin McGuinness a terrorist etc.
If I was alive & living in the North during those times I would probably have done the same thing. At least Martin saw later in life that peace was the only way forward.

Jelle1880

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think this is the difference with those of the unionist tendency. The nationalists have been much better at reaching out to the other community and looking for peace. Gusty Spence, founder of a the loyalist movement died a while back. You could see the most die hard republicans say rest in peace on that thread and acknowledge the efforts he made towards the peace process.

Inside the mind of a unionist is an echo chamber; they are victims always, never the cause of the problem always the victim. Never trying to reason or understand other cultures. As I said the unionist Orange Order, LondonDerry screaming acolytes were the ones who stood against people like my uncle in the SDLP. Unionists opposed the peaceful solution so yes they should be thankful that the violence stopped. Especially since unionists like the DUP opposed the GFA.

Yes you

Here's the thread when Spence passed away:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74583530

As you can see, it's full of people who are happy he died. Funny enough, that first post by Einhard sums up McGuinness too. As if somehow killing people and then stopping is worthy of praise.

Your attempt to make one side seem morally superior doesn't hold up to scrutiny it seems.

JP Liz V1

I would love to see a biopic film of his life

Mental Mickey

Did I just hear Arlene Foster having a little "dig" in her "tribute" just now on the News?

steddyeddy

timthumbni wrote: »

I would be being hypocritical if I said I had much respect for McGuiness. Much more than I would have for Adams but believe me that isn't much of a compliment.
His past IRA career unfortunately is simply too much to simply ignore or gloss over and it should hardly be surprising that he will cause a wide range of differing opinions to be aired.

The peacemaker description thing is puzzling for me and a bit bull****ty as he and his ilk were responsible for much of the horror that befell Northern Ireland and indeed the rest of the the U.K. and the republic too. I mean am I or others supposed to thank mcguinness and his fellow republicans for suddenly deciding they didn't get off on bombing or shooting people anymore???

Also Martin would have known a lot about past attrocities carried out by the IRA in Londonderry. But as he said himself he would rather die than give up the IRA code. So his secrets go to the grave with him.

A family man I have no doubt will be missed greatly by them.

But let's too not forget the many, many victims who were murdered by the IRA under his watch whilst he supported or was part of the IRA, even in his own area.

I think this is the difference with those of the unionist tendency. The nationalists have been much better at reaching out to the other community and looking for peace. Gusty Spence, founder of a the loyalist movement died a while back. You could see the most die hard republicans say rest in peace on that thread and acknowledge the efforts he made towards the peace process.

Inside the mind of a unionist is an echo chamber; they are victims always, never the cause of the problem always the victim. Never trying to reason or understand other cultures. As I said the unionist Orange Order, LondonDerry screaming acolytes were the ones who stood against people like my uncle in the SDLP. Unionists opposed the peaceful solution so yes they should be thankful that the violence stopped. Especially since unionists like the DUP opposed the GFA.

JP Liz V1

RIP

munsterlegend

DanielODonnell wrote: »

McGuinness was a true Gael, he will go down in the history books alongside the likes of Owen Roe O'Neill and Aodh O'Donnell as notorious men of Ulster.

It is a great pity that fools are allowed air time on the news like the loyalists who said that it was McGuinness and IRA who caused the war and he wouldn't have had to build peace in the first place if it wasn't for the IRA.

Then when you turn over to RTE you have Kenny standing in front of a painting of Michael Collins, you just have to laugh at that sort of thing.

As I said previously given the dinosaurs that lead unionism today imagine what they were like 40 to 50 years ago abusing power. Things are changing though and much faster than we all imagined given recent election results and other factors such as brexit.

McGuinness's legacy is a peaceful island and the realisation finally even in unionism that the past can't be repeated nor will they get away with it anymore.

J Cheever Loophole

A friend of mine is a school principal up here, and when Martin McGuinness was Minister for Education, he invited him to the prize giving. Many were addressing him as Mr McGuinness and he was having none of it - "My name is Martin!" was his reply. He ended up in the kitchen after the ceremonies were over, rolling up his sleeves and helping the tea ladies do the dishes.

Therein was a small insight into the man - a man who did not let power or status go to his head - was straight, honest and showed humility - someone who could put himself in the shoes of the other person - all qualities that built the character and were so important when it came to the hugely important negotiations that followed our Troubles. How important were his quailites? He was central to a peace process that may have saved up to 2,000 lives or more, on the basis of Troubles based deaths.

On top of that, he created a peaceful society up here that has allowed the next generation to grow up in an environment that is much more 'normal' than the one I grew up in. There are many of course who will point to his military past. I can understand the anger and reluctance of many people - yes, even Norman Tebbit, who have been at the receiving end of the violence, although I would add that Tebbit has regualrly shown himself to be an odious individual, as evidenced by quotes such as 'Get on your bike..' to the unemployed of 1980s Britain.

My hope would have been, if I were in someone like Tebbit's situation, that I would have been able to forgive, but who knows? What I do know is that I have untold admiration for Jo Berry who lost her Dad at Brighton, and who emphasised strongly that Tebbit did not speak for her.

What of his IRA membership? Once again, I would be reluctant to judge, as I was not in a position where gerrymandering denied my people the right to have their voice heard in a City where they were the majority, who lived in abject poverty as second class citizens, and who were bludgeoned off the road at Burntollet when they tried to stand up for their rights. Watching that now - some fifty years later - still makes me livid!!

There are a number of political commentators up here who feel his passing has left a void in the tricky negotiations that are to come in the next week or two - their insight suggests that his negotiating skills will be sorely missed in trying to reach a compromise, and that in itself relfects on his role in achieving peace.

I would have to say that I was always anti-violence, and that I only felt able to vote for Sinn Fein after the Good Friday agreement. Indeed even now, as a Nationalist, they are still not assured of my vote every time.

However despite that, I feel like my community has lost a leader - a statesman if you like - and somehow there is a sense or feeling of being more vulnerable tonight, particularly when it comes to the tricky political negotiations ahead. His was a steady hand at the wheel - someone who you felt you could trust - and that will be missed.

His passing has left a void.

Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam.

murpho999

Been looking at British print media's coverage and its main focus has been on McGuinness's role as IRA Commander rather than his role as Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland.

Comments section of Daily Mail is truly shocking, saying he is no loss and how disappointed they are in the Queen for sending a sympathy message.

Daily Mail Article

Same paper also has a shocking article about James McCleans tweet about Martin McGuinness.

What they fail to realise that it would be normal for a head of state to send a condolence message on the passing of a government minister which is exactly what Martin McGuinness was as Northern Ireland is a constituent part of the UK.

They are ignoring his achievement in bringing the IRA to a ceasefire and ultimately the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent peace.
Do they not realise in a war situation which NI was in for over 20 years that the options were to surrender, win militarily or negotiate a truce, which involved dealing with the enemies leaders which is exactly what happened in Northern Ireland.

What alternative did they want?

The truth is that the vast majority of British people have no idea what actually happened in NI during the troubles and think that the British only had a benign role. They see themselves as sole victims of IRA attacks whilst not knowing what happened in Northern Ireland.

I would also argue that the vast majority have no idea what's occuring in Northern Ireland politics today and I do wonder if this general apathy and ignorance will eventually lead to disillusionment among Unionists and Northern Ireland leaving the UK.

DanielODonnell

McGuinness was a true Gael, he will go down in the history books alongside the likes of Owen Roe O'Neill and Aodh O'Donnell as notorious men of Ulster.

It is a great pity that fools are allowed air time on the news like the loyalists who said that it was McGuinness and IRA who caused the war and he wouldn't have had to build peace in the first place if it wasn't for the IRA.

Then when you turn over to RTE you have Kenny standing in front of a painting of Michael Collins, you just have to laugh at that sort of thing.

Gael23

His contribution to peace was immense and will have a lasting impact on NI and he deserves credit for that. However his IRA past cannot be forgotten and I'm sure not everyone will mourn his death. Nevertheless 66 is too young to die and unlike Ian Paisley he deserves to rest in peace.

Jamiekelly

stockdam wrote: »

You do know who Parry is? Why would he forgive McGuinness? Would you in the same position?

Ok so you said immediately above that they shouldn't have asked him. I agree as anyone who has lost their 12 year old kid who was not involved would answer.....you are hardly going to be friends with the person who was involved in the organisation who killed him.

I completely agree....I was NOT attacking Parry, I was attacking the BBC for their extremely tabloid-esque leading question.

Parry has more dignity, empathy, honour and understanding than any politician on this island today.

timthumbni

I would be being hypocritical if I said I had much respect for McGuiness. Much more than I would have for Adams but believe me that isn't much of a compliment.
His past IRA career unfortunately is simply too much to simply ignore or gloss over and it should hardly be surprising that he will cause a wide range of differing opinions to be aired.

The peacemaker description thing is puzzling for me and a bit bull****ty as he and his ilk were responsible for much of the horror that befell Northern Ireland and indeed the rest of the the U.K. and the republic too. I mean am I or others supposed to thank mcguinness and his fellow republicans for suddenly deciding they didn't get off on bombing or shooting people anymore???

Also Martin would have known a lot about past attrocities carried out by the IRA in Londonderry. But as he said himself he would rather die than give up the IRA code. So his secrets go to the grave with him.

A family man I have no doubt will be missed greatly by them.

But let's too not forget the many, many victims who were murdered by the IRA under his watch whilst he supported or was part of the IRA, even in his own area.

FrancieBrady

stockdam wrote: »

You do know who Parry is? Why would he forgive McGuinness? Would you in the same position?

Ok so you said immediately above that they shouldn't have asked him. I agree as anyone who has lost their 12 year old kid who was not involved would answer.....you are hardly going to be friends with the person who was involved in the organisation who killed him.

Some people can forgive and others can't. That is fine, and I don't think McGuiness would have had a problem with that.
The problem arises when victims cannot let their desire for retribution go and work for peace. Arlene Forster resorted to tried and tested conflict/war rethoric only a month or so ago, Norman Tebbitt did it today.
Colin Parry, like McGuiness made huge efforts to build peace and found a kinship in that.

holyhead

Sad to learn of the passing of Martin McGuinness. I grew up at a time when if you saw Northern Ireland appear on your Aertel it invariably was down to an attrocity. While acknowledging he had a paramilitary past he was a key figure in the peace which NI enjoys today. Unlike Adams McG never denied being in the IRA. His warm relationship with the Paisley family speaks well of his humanity. We down in the Republic can probably never fully understand the backdrop to life in NI in the last 1960's early 70's which kicked off the modern troubles in NI.
I think he reached out to the Unionist community in a way Arlene Foster would do well to replicate to the Nationalist community if she is capable of doing so. His meeting the Queen was commendable all things considered. He did it because he genuinely sought to represent all the people of NI.
Is life in NI better for Martin McGuinness having been there. On balance yes. His military past was hideous but ultimately the people of NI owe a debt of gratitude to MMcG. R.I.P.

stockdam

Jamiekelly wrote: »

Seen the BBC's report, the mainland uk one not the NI one. A reporter asked the father of a bombing victim, i think it was Parry, whether he considered McGuinness a friend?

His answer was, surprise surprise, no.

Top class journalism there from the BBC. The same BBC that runs numerous segments almost daily on the BBC World News channel about "What can the media do... better?/ to make people trust us again?/ to not alienate viewers?

I swear the more and more I watch major news networks during big events the more I understand why Trump's "dumb media" line resonates.

You do know who Parry is? Why would he forgive McGuinness? Would you in the same position?

Ok so you said immediately above that they shouldn't have asked him. I agree as anyone who has lost their 12 year old kid who was not involved would answer.....you are hardly going to be friends with the person who was involved in the organisation who killed him.

Jamiekelly

Fratton Fred wrote: »

When I read your first post, I thought you were simply mistaken. when I read your second, I realised you were being deliberately obtuse.

Please take time and effort to listen to the whole interview. there is another tv interview on the BBC website as well

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39337136

Mistaken? About what? All I implied was asking someone if they're friends with someone who murdered a loved one is not good journalism or even manners. If he said he didn't forgive the man then why would he be friends with him? It seemed to me to be a set question they wanted to ask regardless of what was said beforehand.

My second post was a little OTT admittedly, a joke in poor taste, but then again that did happen in NI

stockdam

My name is URL wrote: »

stockdam wrote: »

I had the same upbringing and "repression" but never for one minute thought of resorting to violence.

Well that's your own perogative

Some people will fight back when pushed beyond a certain point. Others are happy to bend over and take it.

Yes and some people know it's wrong to plant bombs in rubbish bins outside of McDonalds or to plant three car bombs in Claudy killing kids. You don't resort to such low levels of depravity to fight back.

bigbrotherfan

Again, i'm not Martin McGuinness' No. 1 fan but I acknowledge, whole heartedly the good work he did in the past 20 years. Just saw a guy on the news speaking very disrespectfully about Martin McGuinness and referring to 1969 etc..

I am not in favour of somebody being hypocritical and eulogising somebody, just because that person has died but if somebody hasn't got something nice to say, especially on television, then it would be better to leave it out, when the man is barely cold.

FrancieBrady

andekwarhola wrote: »

Thanks.

Getting beered up to continue the vicarious terrorist campaign later?

The lols keep coming. You should be on the stage!

andekwarhola

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Identifies people as 'you and your ilk' and then rants about them going on about 'themuns'

Classic. Well done. :D

Thanks.

Getting beered up to continue the vicarious terrorist campaign later?

FrancieBrady

andekwarhola wrote: »

You and your ilk love griping about 'themuns'. And you'll be doing it until the grave.

Thank fcuk the likes of McGuiness and Adams were in the driving seat (and not the armchair).

Identifies people as 'you and your ilk' and then rants about them going on about 'themuns'

Classic. Well done.