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Child Item

Whats your Work Attitude

Walter H Price

I read the below article yesterday and i have to say it really resonated with me

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/millennials-struggling-work-careers-because-their-parents-gave-them-medals-for-coming-last-simon-a7537121.html

In it leading research Simon Sineck suggests that basically the millennial attitude towards works is all wrong and has been caused by over protective parents sheltering kids . while i agree in some sense with his view on many aspects of modern parenting and the nonsense of participation medals etc... i dint' necessarily think it directly relates to work attitude.

From my own point of view i work to live and not vice versa , i don't stay late unless there's extra pay in it , however i am efficient and engaged between 8:30 and 4:30. I'm very content with the idea that i just work for money its a simple transaction in my view i am paid x amount for 8 hours. I don't love my job or feel grateful for it, its functional and my employer didn't do me a favor in giving it to me no more than i do him a favor showing up every day, again i view it as a transaction. I'm here while it suits me if i won the lotto in the morning id be sending in my notice without a second thought , My OH is the bigger earner in our house and as kids come on the scene in the next few years i may look at teaching or staying at home to save on child care, at the end of the day if the cost of child care in order to facilitate me working was significantly eating into my salary the motivation simply wouldn't exist any longer.

My parents were very traditional , there were no participation medals in our house, if you wanted to win something you put the effort in , if you wanted praise you earned it , if you wanted money you worked for it. But it is in my view watching my parent that has shaped my attitude towards work more than my birth year or up bringing. My dad has worked 50-60 hour weeks my entire life, he was rarely home before our bed time when we were kids, he traveled extensively worked between counties and countries missed family holidays , etc.... hes worked for the same company for 40 years and is very senior has a great salary , 2 years ago that loyalty hard work , achievement , awards, years of commitment etc. was repaid by him being shafted into a non role effectively to see out the next few year until early retirement , other then the money he been left question what it was all for.

MY view to sum up is shaped by the idea that you can spend your life selling your time but a some point the realization will hit that no matter how much salary you have attained , it will never be enough compensation for the time you have had to sacrifice to earn it.

Id love to get the view of people on here on this , do you work late ? and if so to what end ? , do you feel grateful to your employer or for your job ? do you think the Millennial attitude sucks or is spot on ?

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Wanderer78

ancapailldorcha wrote:

Interesting. In my sector, it's routine for people in science to work nearly 7-day weeks. A friend in New York told me that he honestly had no idea what he'd do with a whole weekend.

That's sad really, we need to ditch globalization asap

ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Interesting. In my sector, it's routine for people in science to work nearly 7-day weeks. A friend in New York told me that he honestly had no idea what he'd do with a whole weekend.

TheDoc

super_furry wrote: »

"Many millennials leave work on the dot of 5pm every day and refuse to answer work calls or emails over the weekend. This attitude is one of the reasons we have a reputation for entitlement."

No problem whatsoever with that. Unless it's an exceptional circumstance or you're going to pay someone to be on call, don't call them at the weekend. Likewise if you pay someone until 5pm, don't be surprised that they don't want to work another couple of hours for you for free.

Reputation for entitlement, what nonsense. And it label it as millenials or some generational thing is silly.

What it is, is people who don't get sucked into the Americana "If I stay late my boss will be impressed and I'll get more recognition when it comes to promotions and bonuses" which is total nonsense. It's a cultural guilt trip for companies and management to benefit from free labour, or it's staff unable to cope with their workload and having poor time management.

There are people in my department and company like that, staying to all hours. I just don't get it. I am a team of effectively one, oversee critical components in the business, and I'm always done on time give or take a few minutes if maybe I'm waiting on someone to walk to the car.

My work will never be "done", it's a constant cycle. Just be total burnout if I was operating like that. It's mental, I'll never understand it. Like I have some conflicts when people ring me on holidays or at weekends and seem to be ancy when I question what they are doing ringing me out of hours.

It's a culture and attitude I see more and more and it's just unhealthy and pointless. I notice it with new hires as well that feel pressured into doing it as they see team mates or a manager doing it.

I remember seeing that video before and did think it was very good, but thought it was ironic in it's generalisation of millenials. If I was to define a trait for that generation, which I am apart of, it is that it's everyone elses fault, and just a complete lack of ownership, owning their own ****. Millenials have a reputation for blaming everyone else for their failings,and like I said ironically that video which I did like, does just provide new excuses

It's the banks fault I can't buy a house, it's the governments fault, it's my managers fault holding me back, it was bad teachers in school that stopped me being a doctor, now its my parents weren't total dickheads to me so it's hampered me in the real world.

Sorry but it's bollox, it's just giving another excuse, and another excuse for these people to trick themselves into believing that they got a tough break or something happened to stop them being in whatever life or career or happiness they think they deserve or want. It's just such a blatantly obvious trait these days. I see it in friends, people a little younger and a little older. It's just moaning, it's everyone elses fault and not your own. I've been guilty of it too, but some personal stuff in my life the last six months made me hone back in on what I used to be like and believe. The world owes me nothing, if I want anything I've got to go get it and work for it, no one is going to give me an easy ride, and if things arn't working out I can blame the world and it's mother, but it's down to me to sort it.

It's such a frustrating thing to constantly hear from so many people. And sorry, I tie it directly into the rising trend of suicide and people suffering depression and mental health issues. Sure there is scenarios and situations that are incredibly complex and difficult, but there is also a certain element required of "get a ****ing grip" and some people I know suffering from depression, sorry I just can't comprehend how they could be "depressed" over what they are, and how any medical practitioner could acknowledge it as being the case.

I would have assumed that as a people and especially the age bracket around me, we would come through a recession as harder more resilient people, instead it seems we are just softer and obstacles and bumps are becoming detrimental as opposed to something to work through and get over.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Bambi985

seamus wrote: »

Each to their own really and it is a cultural thing. I think the U.S. has about the worst attitude to it in general; everyone should strive to earn as much as humanly possible and retire to a life of absolute unbridled luxury and yachts. It leads to a culture where the 99% are miserably chasing an unrealistic dream while the 1% tell them they can do it if they just work a bit harder. Family are an essential accessory for a man looking to climb the ladder but should always play second fiddle to the work.

A friend of mine recently travelled the world, starting in Europe, then Asia and looping around to America. She said by far the most stressed and "tired-looking" folks she saw were the Americans with their 60 hour weeks and constant battle up the career ladder to the detriment of everything else in their life.

I've worked for American companies the past few years and have had the opportunity to work out of the NY office, but wouldn't do it to myself because of the pressure it would put me under. The atmosphere is a lot more tense and cut-throat over there, there's not the same banter or work friendships that we have in the London office and I'd never want to live that way.

i spent most of my 20s working in a highly competitive workplace where people would sell their mammies down the river to get a special assignment or work contract, and I hit 30 and just thought "what's the actual point of this?" Money was grand, CV looked great but my personal life was in tatters, friendships had dissipated and I hadn't managed to hold down a relationship of more than a few weeks in all that time. "What's the point?" was all that I heard every morning when I was greeted with yet another mammoth task that was going to cut into every spare hour I had for the foreseeable future.

PhuckHugh

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Very interesting topic. My attitude to work would be pretty much identical to yours (OP). I went to college to get a half decent job so I could earn a half-decent living which would allow me to live a half-decent life. If I won the lotto tomorrow, I'd never work a day again in my life and would be absolutely content to do so.

I don't get people whose identity seems to be defined by what they do. Am I unambitious? Maybe. But I'm fine with that. Work to live, definitely.

Lovely, lovely words.

[Deleted User]

The generational stuff is waffle. My ould lad remembers being taken aside his first day on a site and being told to go handy, he was getting paid the same whatever. It's advice that a few people I know in their 20s wish they'd gotten but already have issues that flare up fairly regularly and they have no comeback for.

I'm paid barely above minimum wage, I could leave and start next week on about 35% more money. I'm not doing so because it would be to join a company where my contract would be for 4 hours less a week but that doesn't seem to be how it actually is, where progression in financial and skills doesn't have precedence and where I am is just sound people. I started a year ago with no experience and now could fill my CV wide a range of things. I wouldn't say I feel "loyalty" to my employer but he gave me a chance and I'm taking it. I do my 39 hours a week and I'll adjust times to suit work within reason. At the end of the day neither he nor I are doing each other a favour. :pac:

endacl

I've the life of Reilly. Ridiculously handy teaching job where I'm practically autonomous. Don't mind doing extra here because the students are a nice bunch. Plus, they're plc students, so I'm effectively finished almost a month earlier than my mainstream colleagues. Can't beat a four month summer holiday. Thanks, taxpayers!

Nice big state pension at the end of it, and my earliest start is 11 am. I also work privately in an unrelated field, that I'm passionate about. Pays really well and I'm my own boss. I also gig regularly. Pays pretty well, but that's mostly for fun. I don't bother with gigs I wouldn't enjoy.

My attitude to work is that it's not really work at all...

Alf Veedersane

Sugar Free wrote: »

Fully agree, voice of reason Alf as always!

Thank you, good sir.

I do think that unless someone worked in your field, they won't understand what is needed to progress. And for someone whose job is about the paycheck, then they definitely won't understand.

I haven't had to put in a lot of time outside of my hours to get where I am because I'm not sure if that works here outside of the context of building on a degree, for example, or going for chartership. But I've also had the interest and wherewithal to position myself to take advantage of opportunities that dovetailed perfectly with my experience and significantly improved the work I've been involved with and that's job satisfaction.

RWCNT

When did this "participation trophy" stuff come in? I'm a millenial (27 years old) and I never heard of it until I started seeing it come up in threads like this. Is it an American thing? It's possible maybe they did have them for some stuff when I was in school but I don't remember since obviously such a trophy would have no value and probably wind up in the back of a wardrobe somewhere.

Sugar Free

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I just think it means that your work and progression in your job matters more to you than most people. For a lot of people, work is a means to an end. For others, progression and success in your work has a bigger impact on their life. And that’s fine.

I really like what I do, for the most part. And while I don’t work over a weekend or stay at work late, I do read up on areas that may be relevant to me, so it’s not hugely dissimilar but I also fit it into my life rather than fitting my life into it.

But I have a two-year old and that makes me prioritise my time a little differently but not in a way that has negatively affected my career.
There’s also the fact that some jobs you don’t have to stay late to get ahead. I’ve had colleagues who worked more than me but they just didn’t get what they were doing….didn’t understand it properly so working late didn’t help.

In some areas, people have to record their time and there’s an expectation that all of your time must be billed to a client. So additional time spent at work isn’t always recognised – unless it’s because you stayed late to meet a deadline.

I’ve mostly rambled there so not sure if it’s coherent but essentially if work is more than just a paycheck and you value progression in your field beyond the cash money it brings in, then that’s perfectly normal.
Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Fully agree, voice of reason Alf as always!

Your Face

I remember an auld lad I used to work with.

I was busting my arse one day and he just said to me in a kind manner, "Don't sell your labour so cheap".

That bit of advice has served me very well.

seamus

Sugar Free wrote: »

This attitude very much seems like a minority on boards and sometimes makes me think I'm out of place being Irish! While I respect others' attitudes to their working lives, I do feel like these threads often give off a vibe that, regardless of the reasons why, anyone who goes beyond what is normally required is seen as foolish. Or naive to the fact that pretty much anyone is replaceable.

Perhaps that is more true of people in their 20s but I find those a bit older are well aware of what they are potentially sacrificing and have accepted the type of working life they are committing to. At least in my experience.

It's really a matter of just how much money means to you and why.

At the end of the day, when you die you can't take it with you, and nobody is going to lie on their deathbed wishing they spent more time at the office.

Some people want to work hard so they can retire early with a big house and a big pot of cash to work off. Others think that spending your time as a younger person - with all the vitality of a younger person - shouldn't be wasted working and being miserable; that when you retire with your big pot of cash you won't have the same physical or mental stamina to enjoy it.

Each to their own really and it is a cultural thing. I think the U.S. has about the worst attitude to it in general; everyone should strive to earn as much as humanly possible and retire to a life of absolute unbridled luxury and yachts. It leads to a culture where the 99% are miserably chasing an unrealistic dream while the 1% tell them they can do it if they just work a bit harder. Family are an essential accessory for a man looking to climb the ladder but should always play second fiddle to the work.

If working hard and climbing the ladder is something that fires you up then go for it. But it's not something that everyone is in to. Someone else's passion might be building model aircraft, but they still need to live, so they work to earn money to allow them to do what they enjoy doing.

blinding

I'd prefer robbing banks buts its generally frowned on....and its not good carrying guns and threatening people.....

Alf Veedersane

Sugar Free wrote: »

I didn't say salary, I said the value of the total compensation package, which includes a number of things. I also said that would be my potential highest package, not that I necessarily get it right now.

All the same, could I have a lend?

I would ask The Backwards Man but he walked out on a bonus that made Bill Gates wince.

Alf Veedersane

Sugar Free wrote: »

I really enjoy what I do. Helps that I'm happy with the overall package but would still get a lot out of it regardless.

I'll often stay late or do some work on the weekend. Occasionally it's because something is due but often it's just to learn more about the industry or area of work I'm in. I don't count up the hours I do as I don't really measure my output in hours worked.

I do care about progression and the associated monetary rewards but it's not for some perceived status I might attain or way of identifying by my job title instead of my personality. Rather it's looking to the future and the fact I likely have 35-40 years of work ahead of me. I want to ensure I'm always stimulated and challenged.

Also with the industry I'm in, unless I was to break into the top 30-40 leaders of any of the main companies, my peak compensation package isn't getting beyond 200-300k. And while that certainly lends itself to a comfortable life, it still means I have to plan carefully for the future.

This attitude very much seems like a minority on boards and sometimes makes me think I'm out of place being Irish! While I respect others' attitudes to their working lives, I do feel like these threads often give off a vibe that, regardless of the reasons why, anyone who goes beyond what is normally required is seen as foolish. Or naive to the fact that pretty much anyone is replaceable.

Perhaps that is more true of people in their 20s but I find those a bit older are well aware of what they are potentially sacrificing and have accepted the type of working life they are committing to. At least in my experience.

I just think it means that your work and progression in your job matters more to you than most people. For a lot of people, work is a means to an end. For others, progression and success in your work has a bigger impact on their life. And that’s fine.

I really like what I do, for the most part. And while I don’t work over a weekend or stay at work late, I do read up on areas that may be relevant to me, so it’s not hugely dissimilar but I also fit it into my life rather than fitting my life into it.

But I have a two-year old and that makes me prioritise my time a little differently but not in a way that has negatively affected my career.
There’s also the fact that some jobs you don’t have to stay late to get ahead. I’ve had colleagues who worked more than me but they just didn’t get what they were doing….didn’t understand it properly so working late didn’t help.

In some areas, people have to record their time and there’s an expectation that all of your time must be billed to a client. So additional time spent at work isn’t always recognised – unless it’s because you stayed late to meet a deadline.

I’ve mostly rambled there so not sure if it’s coherent but essentially if work is more than just a paycheck and you value progression in your field beyond the cash money it brings in, then that’s perfectly normal.
Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Sugar Free

jadie wrote: »

200-300k salary?!!!

I didn't say salary, I said the value of the total compensation package, which includes a number of things. I also said that would be my potential highest package, not that I necessarily get it right now.

Winterlong

jadie wrote: »

200-300k salary?!!!

Ah yeah, but after tax they would only see €100-150k. :pac:

jadie

Sugar Free wrote: »

I really enjoy what I do. Helps that I'm happy with the overall package but would still get a lot out of it regardless.

I'll often stay late or do some work on the weekend. Occasionally it's because something is due but often it's just to learn more about the industry or area of work I'm in. I don't count up the hours I do as I don't really measure my output in hours worked.

I do care about progression and the associated monetary rewards but it's not for some perceived status I might attain or way of identifying by my job title instead of my personality. Rather it's looking to the future and the fact I likely have 35-40 years of work ahead of me. I want to ensure I'm always stimulated and challenged.

Also with the industry I'm in, unless I was to break into the top 30-40 leaders of any of the main companies, my peak compensation package isn't getting beyond 200-300k. And while that certainly lends itself to a comfortable life, it still means I have to plan carefully for the future.

This attitude very much seems like a minority on boards and sometimes makes me think I'm out of place being Irish! While I respect others' attitudes to their working lives, I do feel like these threads often give off a vibe that, regardless of the reasons why, anyone who goes beyond what is normally required is seen as foolish. Or naive to the fact that pretty much anyone is replaceable.

Perhaps that is more true of people in their 20s but I find those a bit older are well aware of what they are potentially sacrificing and have accepted the type of working life they are committing to. At least in my experience.

200-300k salary?!!!

ILikeBoats

I like my job. I work for a multinational and having a decent work-life balance is encouraged.

I do my contracted hours and if I need to stay late to finish something for a deadline, so be it. I don't mind. If I need to go to the doctor or mechanic, I can go, no hassle no questions asked. If I work up hours, my manager recognises this and I can leave early on Fridays. It's a fair balance and I'm happy with it.

I would not be happy having stay late just to be seen staying late or having people stare at me like I'm committing murder by walking out the door on time.

If people are happy to stay late as it satisfies their ambition and hopes of climbing the ladder, leave them to it. It might work for them! I don't think it would do me any favours, I manage my time the best way possible and I am productive, I deliver my outputs in a timely fashion and there's a lot of love put into it so I keep everyone happy including myself. I am trusted to manage my own time and workload so a monthly face to face with my manager is all that happens. I like it that way.

Minderbinder

Having recently had a small taste of doing business I can definitely understand the buzz of earning money, and getting people to hand over their money to me. It's a thrill to say the least and a thrill that is worth the long hours invested.

I can understand those who are employed who put in extra hours for free. For one it will hopefully lead to a better chance of promotion and the acquisition of more inside knowledge on the company. It's also a way to protect the job you do have. I'm sure climbing the corporate ladder is a thrill too.

Besides work and earning money and respect what else is there?

carzony

I've been working for a security company for the last 8 months and they've secured a massive contract with a IT based crowd for atleast the next 5 years, which means atleast loads of work for me anyway

In the few months I really have worked hard first in, last out, worked an extra 30 mins every shift, done the supervisors job when he was sick for 6 weeks for no extra pay. I have gotten praise from everyone on how hard I work and how well suited I am to the job.

I knew there would be a superviors role coming up soon, I thought i'd apply for it only to be told by my current supervisor that they think I might be too young and not experienced enough:mad:

Needless to say I will be taking a back seat in future and do what's expected of me. These jobs only ever come up every few years which is why I wanted it now.

Sugar Free

I really enjoy what I do. Helps that I'm happy with the overall package but would still get a lot out of it regardless.

I'll often stay late or do some work on the weekend. Occasionally it's because something is due but often it's just to learn more about the industry or area of work I'm in. I don't count up the hours I do as I don't really measure my output in hours worked.

I do care about progression and the associated monetary rewards but it's not for some perceived status I might attain or way of identifying by my job title instead of my personality. Rather it's looking to the future and the fact I likely have 35-40 years of work ahead of me. I want to ensure I'm always stimulated and challenged.

Also with the industry I'm in, unless I was to break into the top 30-40 leaders of any of the main companies, my peak compensation package isn't getting beyond 200-300k. And while that certainly lends itself to a comfortable life, it still means I have to plan carefully for the future.

This attitude very much seems like a minority on boards and sometimes makes me think I'm out of place being Irish! While I respect others' attitudes to their working lives, I do feel like these threads often give off a vibe that, regardless of the reasons why, anyone who goes beyond what is normally required is seen as foolish. Or naive to the fact that pretty much anyone is replaceable.

Perhaps that is more true of people in their 20s but I find those a bit older are well aware of what they are potentially sacrificing and have accepted the type of working life they are committing to. At least in my experience.

Beyondgone

It's a necessary evil.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

tinpib

I've realised that I will only give 100% working for myself. And while not quite a vocation for the first time in almost a year I've found something to get fired up about.

I've kinda fallen by accident into working myself and I feel like I could never go back to being an employee again.

However right now I'm not busting myself looking for more Monday to Friday work instead I'm trying to put as much spare time as I can into studying Internet Marketing. I have a Kindle book but haven't promoted it, so that's the first thing.

The overall goal is to be able to work remotely for myself asap. I'm abroad at the minute and will be home next year. Surely, hopefully, I can figure out a way to be earning €1000 a month at a bare minimum online in a year or so?

Working for myself with a staff of one is the aim and to build things from there.

It's a bit daunting at the minute, but once I decide on something in general I obsess about it, so fingers crossed.

I wouldn't want to hire staff for all the hassle it entails and also for the fact that I imagine they will possibly only go through the motions like I would.

VonLuck

Lately I found myself putting in extra hours as standard. I do feel that even though I work longer hours I don't get any further ahead of the work, I just get landed with more!

I do have a colleague who is very much a 9 to 5:30 guy. Never a minute of unpaid overtime, yet I'm sure he is getting paid the same salary as me.

I do wonder why I do it sometimes!

Chris.

somefeen wrote: »

My plan at the moment is to make sure I am in a position where, if I was sacked in the morning I'd be OK. That it wouldn't matter.

At the moment I have a sideline as a writer which is paying for an online course, and I am saving up 9 months of expenses. Its tough financially to do these things but it will be worth it. I have no debts and I live fairly frugally.

I started working when I was a child, working for my father who was a builder then when I was 16 I left school and started working fulltime.
When my boss was being a dick to me in various jobs since then I always wished I could be there on my own terms. My last job I hated my boss and he hated me. I bit my lip and toed the line and hated every minute of it. All because I was afraid of getting sacked and what it would do to my career and how I would survive and pay the rent, not to mention the shame. After I was forced to quit that job I decided I would never be in that position again. That never again would I have to put up with someones crap for the sake of a paycheck. That my future career and my financial security would never again be at the mercy of some asshole.
When I have my 9 months expenses saved and my online course finished, I will be in an excellent position. If I was sacked I pretty much immediately go writing full time or use the online qualification on its own or in combination with writing to begin another career. I would have 9 months to get an income going again, and it wouldn't need to be huge to sustain me because I am going to stay debt free for as long as I can.
In my current job I have decided to heed the advice of Jim Rohn; "Work harder on yourself than you do at your job".

You can't beat a few quotes from Mr Rohn to make you think about your life.

ArnieSilvia

carrieb wrote:

I left that company and am in another very small company. There is only take. My boss would never let me finish early, never make me feel like its ok to ask to come in late. Watches my every move, doesn't trust anyone. Often rings simply to ask where I am and what I am doing. He often texts or emails at night or on the weekend, he knows full well that I've driven to meetings 2 or 3 hours away in the afternoon and have to drive back again and therefore will be late home but he doesn't acknowledge it. Doesn't tell me to take a couple of hours as he knows I've worked late.

carrieb wrote:

I have to go to the meetings etc if I want to get business but I don't have to engage without him outside of working hours so I don't.

carrieb wrote:

I know from my own circle of friends that it's more often then not the company you work for as opposed to your own "rules".

I was in the same boat, got a job in technical sales, good wages, interesting job, brand new exec car, all came at price - week consist of 1 mega stressful day in office followed by 4 days on the road, 10-12 hrs a day, hundreds of kilometers a day, always in a rush.

In my previous roles I was paid for every minute I was at work, sometimes working hard, sometimes watching YouTube all night long, had lunch breaks, canteen, benefits etc. I left sales without anything lined up, just like that, out if principle. Not a hope that I'll be filling someone's pockets at cost of my physical and mental health. Back to my old industry, albeit on higher level!

collie0708

I think am individuals attitude to work is very much related to their career ambitions. The reality is that those who put in the most effort are most likely to clime the corporate ladder.

I would have no issue putting in additional hours when required as long as it's by my own choice. I have found as I have gotten older I work less hours and have become far more efficient at managing my time.