tricky D wrote: » Folks can we please knock off the whinging about moderation off this thread. It just keeps on derailing an already difficult thread which under the circumstances is impossible to moderate to everyone's satisfaction. Cheers.
billie1b wrote: » Oh, expect an infraction or ban for that!
billie1b wrote: » You could say the exact same about your post. You're not understanding here, the feedback forum was closed to shut us up because we we're moaning about the mods/modding of the forum. Nobody is taking heed of it, so this is the only way to get it noticed. One mod in particular has started handing out bans and infractions to people for no reason, quoting posts from months ago to try justify their behaviour. Thats how pety they have gotten!
smurfjed wrote: » @ GVHOT the IF for DUB RWY 16 is 12.5 nms north of the runway.
wexandproud wrote: » irish steve have been following this thread with interest and as i am a commercial fisherman i am stunned by the tragic event . I would just like to say how disappointing it is to see people talking about human error , before the full facts are known . I feel it would be far more appropriate to commend these crews on the thousands of successful rescues and missions of all types that they have done. however i was just wondering , would there be any form of a beacon or 'racon' on the lighthouse that would be used as a reference point in poor visability or some type of waypoint reference that the pilots would use in planning a track while approaching blacksod .
Mech1 wrote: » When telling the aircraft where you want to fly to, would it be like a car type GPS with destinations preprogrammed, in alphabetical order? Could you mistakenly select the wrong destination and not notice?
ProfessorPlum wrote: » Every pilot makes mistakes. Because they are human. Certain errors can be reduced by training. Many can not. That's why we rely on other error trapping systems - SOPs, cross monitoring, design features etc. The SAR pilots will tell you that themselves. SAR pilots train properly and fully for the situations they fly in. Commercial pilots do the same. You have got to drop this notion that just because they're SAR they don't make mistakes. Its not helpful. Any pilot who can't entertain the notion that he makes mistakes has no business flying.
Irish Steve wrote: » I'm not aware of any radio aids on Blackrock, but with the other systems that they have on board, they wouldn't as such need one, the standard navigation systems based on GPS (among other things) give them accurate fixes to about +/- 5 meters in horizontal and vertical mode, and there are then things like Radio alitimeters, that give clearance above ground below, and DME, which gives distance from a radio station, so 2 or 3 of these can be used to derive positions. Blackrock is about 12 miles off Shore, so may have been used as a point for fixing the procedure, at times it would be visible, especially from the air, there's nothing to indicate that the procedure they were using on Monday was anything out of the ordinary, given that Blacksod is a regular fuel stop, they probably have their "standard" approach pre programmed into their systems to make it easier and quicker to manage the flights.
Reati wrote: » A broken clock is right twice a day. Doesn't prove anything and doesn't mean it's of any use to anyone. There is no proof either way. It's still speculation to say it was pilot error vs mechanical fault. All that they have said is some wreckage has consistency with making contact with rocks. I'm one of the posters who didn't (and atm still don't) believe it was CFIT but admitted in posts that they likely hit / clipped the island for one reason or another. My views will change as more evidence comes out. That's the thing that seems to be lacking here. People are more worried about how they were right with speculation than wanting to understand what went wrong and learning from it. If it was CFIT due it disorientation I won't be making excuses for what I believed at the time. I'll be happy they found the cause and can work to make the system safer for other SAR teams and pilots in general.Ireland has lost a very experienced and dedicated SAR crew. Who have saved countless lives. There is no win to be had in being "right" on this. All that matters is they figure it out and hopefully prevent it happening again. Exactly. The AAIU piece is as vague as it is detailed but the AAIU have not said "they crashed into Blackrock". Because the aviation industry is built on learning and transparency. They didn't tell "us" anything. They are detailing out some early observations about some of the wreckage found.
wexandproud wrote: » thanks I know how good the gps is as i have 2 in my own boat and i know how ais works as i have a receiver . Sometimes it seems a lot of planes are using tusker rock lighthouse as some sort of a waypoint as a lot of them change direction in the area . I just wondered if there was some sort of cross checking at a fixed point if you know what i mean
vicwatson wrote: » Granuaile nearly at Blackrock
Deleted User wrote: » Tusker for VFR aircraft is a VRP visual reference point to turn for the UK. Above or near to it is an IFR point called DIMUS.
vicwatson wrote: » Granuaile turning away from Blackrock
wexandproud wrote: » thanks for that . i thought as much , was just wondering if helicopter was doing something similar . I know how good the electronics are in even the most modest boat , can only imagine the systems used in aviation , but its hard to beat seeing some fixed reference point every so often
Irish Steve wrote: » I am not saying that they don't make mistakes, what I am trying to keep in focus for the benefit of non aviation visitors is that the SAR community because of the very specialised nature that they operate in are training to a much higher level and much more often than any other part of the aviation community, so the potential for mistakes is significantly less than for other areas of aviation. Yes, it's still there, if this eventually turns out to be CFIT with no other factors involved, I for one will be very shocked.
Means Of Escape wrote: » Couldn't care less if I'm right
Means Of Escape wrote: » you seemed to be certain that you were correct from the offset regarding the impossibility of pilot error due to SD and were crowing about it
Reati wrote: » No, because they didn't hit the lighthouse. I'm very sure the lighthouse would have a fair bit of damage if a craft of that size hit it at 175km/h. They certainly, I'm my view, did not crash into blackrock due to human error. Something on the craft failed and took R116 down. Again as pointed out before helicopters are super vulnerable to living parts failing like a gearbox failure and have no real redundancy. If a key part of system went them the craft goes.
Reati wrote: » Anyway, back down here off the high horse. I never said they couldn't make a mistake. I said it's highly unlikely and it's more likely the craft failed. Is it possible there was a pilot error due to a system failure? Of course. Is it possible they crashed due to pilot error? Of course but it's still unlikely. Anyway, If the crew fly into Blackrock by mistake, I'd be surprised. it would be an opportunity to learn why and how to prevent it in future.
The pilots are generally unaware of the danger until it is too late
Mr Velo wrote: » LE Eithne on her way back out now again.... must have had to go back in for something?
Storm 10 wrote: » Rescue 115 was heading for the search area but has diverted to the Aran Islands, now heading to Galway Hospital.
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