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RIP Martin McGuinness

thee glitz

Former Deputy First Minister of NI Martin McGuinness has died. May he RIP.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0321/861287-martin-mcguinness-death/

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FTA69

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Huh? What are you talking about?

Norman Tebitt was on Twitter whinging about him. I imagine you'll have a few in the British gutter Press as well up to the same.

FrancieBrady

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

His early life and the IRA campaigns were reprehensible but his achievements in working towards peace and working alongside his foes to achieve that are admirable. His warm personal relationship with Ian Paisley humanised Paisley.

When he began his public life Irish people were living in oppression and inequality when he died they were in joint government and had full equality. That is a massive achievement.

Like any soldier or general you could view their times carrying out violence in isolation I suppose.
Do you do that with all soldiers?

steddyeddy

FTA69 wrote: »

Norman Tebitt was on Twitter whinging about him. I imagine you'll have a few in the British gutter Press as well up to the same.

The British have zero clue about the history most of the time. The little Englander mentality is out in force today.

jimgoose

You mightn't necessarily agree with where he came from, but where he ended up going, and - with a little help - bringing others, was rather impressive. I thought well of his last political act, to wit making it quite clear where "Chuckles" Foster could hide her Thermos. RIP Yer Maun.

FTA69

steddyeddy wrote: »

The British have zero clue about the history most of the time. The little Englander mentality is out in force today.

Stop they'd break your heart at times. Most of them regard the British Empire as a benign or even positive thing, they haven't a bloody clue.

smelly sock

Rip big man. He done what needed to be done at different times.

Peace maker.

AudreyHepburn

While I can't condone the things he was involved with in his early years I do recognize and commend his work for peace later on. I also view it as a form of atonement for him, and Paisely etc for that matter.

I just wish people would take off their rose tinted glasses and see both sides of the man, not just the one of recent years. Praise his work for peace all you want but don't let it cloud over the heinous events he was involved in during his youth.

RIP Martin.

[Deleted User]

A few posters seem to be hijacking his death to vent anti British sentiment.

Lord Tebbit is not a spokesperson for "the Establishment". And as McGuinness was part of an organisation that tried to blow him up, and put his wife in wheelchair, it's laughable that people expect him to be nice about it.

[Deleted User]

steddyeddy wrote: »

The British have zero clue about the history most of the time. The little Englander mentality is out in force today.

Considering Norman tebbit and his wife were both injured in the Brighton bombing, I'd cut him some slack here.
Not sure i could ever forgive anyone involved in an organisation that did that to me.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

The British have zero clue about the history most of the time. The little Englander mentality is out in force today.

In Martin's memory I intend to enjoy the bitterness with a wry smile.
The press of a nation - with one of the world's most belligerent and violent history's and that is still engaged in violent swaggering to achieve it and others aims - having a problem with a part of the life of Martin McGuinness is a true joy to behold.

selwyn froggitt

steddyeddy wrote: »

The British have zero clue about the history most of the time. The little Englander mentality is out in force today.

If you have so much distain for them, why don't you do yourself a favour and **** off back to Ireland then.

Everyones a winner.

ThisRegard

FTA69 wrote: »

Norman Tebitt was on Twitter whinging about him. I imagine you'll have a few in the British gutter Press as well up to the same.

Well he was caught up and trapped in the rubble after the Brighton bombing.

Bubbaclaus

A true Irish patriot.

RIP

smelly sock

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Nobody that wasn't living in the north at the time can understand what was going on.

Paratroopers murdering peaceful civil rights campaigners. A police force colluding with unionists. Catholics unable to gain employment.

People like Martin mcguinnes were needed.

FrancieBrady

smelly sock wrote: »

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Nobody that wasn't living in the north at the time can understand what was going on.

Paratroopers murdering peaceful civil rights campaigners. A police force colluding with unionists. Catholics unable to gain employment.

People like Martin mcguinnes were needed.

You can understand it like any conflict/war. All you need is open eyes and mind and the facts.

AudreyHepburn

smelly sock wrote: »

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Nobody that wasn't living in the north at the time can understand what was going on.

Paratroopers murdering peaceful civil rights campaigners. A police force colluding with unionists. Catholics unable to gain employment.

People like Martin mcguinnes were needed.

None of that in any way justifies planting bombs under innocent people, dragging British policemen out a car and beating them to death in front the media just because they drove the wrong through a funeral, kidnapping innocent young men, and one mother of ten, killing and burying them in unknown graves not be found for decades or the many other horrific things the IRA did and still do.

There's no point pretending atrocities didn't take place on BOTH sides of the Troubles, it does no-one any favors.

AudreyHepburn

Deleted User wrote: »

A few posters seem to be hijacking his death to vent anti British sentiment.

Lord Tebbit is not a spokesperson for "the Establishment". And as McGuinness was part of an organisation that tried to blow him up, and put his wife in wheelchair, it's laughable that people expect him to be nice about it.

This is what worries me about the reaction McGuinness's passing - people are just short of hero worshiping him and seem to think it's acceptable to turn a blind eye to the horrific things he was involved in.

They then lambaste anyone who dares to see McGuinness as anything but a modern day Michael Collins fighting for Irish freedom.

Double Standards of the highest order imo

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A few posters seem to be hijacking his death to vent anti British sentiment.

Lord Tebbit is not a spokesperson for "the Establishment". And as McGuinness was part of an organisation that tried to blow him up, and put his wife in wheelchair, it's laughable that people expect him to be nice about it.

I live in England Conor. I didn't see the Tebbit interview but I have to listen to uneducated Englanders with one side of the conflict in mind.

[Deleted User]

In May 1996, the Sunday World newspaper published a series of candid holiday photographs showing [Sammy] Wilson and his girlfriend naked. Wilson subsequently sued the paper for damages, which were settled out of court. After the incident, Martin McGuinness of Sinn Féin addressed the Northern Ireland Assembly by saying "It is also very good to come across someone like Mr Sammy Wilson, whom I have never met, and it is great to see him today with his clothes on." [7](Source)

hehe. Go ndéana Dia grásta air.

Junkyard Tom

The Father of one of the kids killed in that horrific bombing in Warrington was interviewed on BBC Radio about MMcG (who actually went to Warrington to speak to the people there) and had a much more conciliatory tone than Norman Tebbit.

Here is a bit more from Colin Parry whose son Tim died in a IRA bomb in Warrington in 1993.

“I don’t forgive the IRA, nor does my wife, nor do my children,” he told the BBC. “But, setting aside forgiveness, the simple fact is I found Martin McGuinness an easy and pleasant man to talk to – a man who I believe was sincere in his desire for peace, for maintaining the peace process at all costs.

“And I think he deserves great credit for his most recent life rather than more than his earlier life, for which I don’t think anything in his most recent life can atone. That said, he was still a brave man, who put himself at some risk within some elements of his own community in Northern Ireland.”

theguardian.com

AudreyHepburn

smelly sock wrote: »

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Nobody that wasn't living in the north at the time can understand what was going on.

Paratroopers murdering peaceful civil rights campaigners. A police force colluding with unionists. Catholics unable to gain employment.

People like Martin mcguinnes were needed.

You can certainly understand, but that doesn't mean you have to, or should, condone it.

Feisar

Rest In Peace.

Rightly or wrongly my first thoughts when I heard the news on the radio this morning was that a freedom fighter had died. Easy for me to have romantic notions having grown up in the Republic though.

steddyeddy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

None of that in any way justifies planting bombs under innocent people, dragging British policemen out a car and beating them to death in front the media just because they drove the wrong through a funeral, kidnapping innocent young men, and one mother of ten, killing and burying them in unknown graves not be found for decades or the many other horrific things the IRA did and still do.

There's no point pretending atrocities didn't take place on BOTH sides of the Troubles, it does no-one any favors.

The ANC, Nelson Mandela's terror group did exactly the same Audrey. They even had connections with the IRA.

armaghlad

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

This is what worries me about the reaction McGuinness's passing - people are just short of hero worshiping him and seem to think it's acceptable to turn a blind eye to the horrific things he was involved in.

They then lambaste anyone who dares to see McGuinness as anything but a modern day Michael Collins fighting for Irish freedom.

Double Standards of the highest order imo

What horrific things was he personally involved in? List his convictions there for us, you know, for balance.

steddyeddy

selwyn froggitt wrote: »

If you have so much distain for them, why don't do yourself a favour and **** off back to Ireland then.

Everyones a winner.

I don't have disdain for them. I have disdain for their rose tinted view of British history.l also I'm employed by the Americans and work part time here.

AudreyHepburn

steddyeddy wrote: »

The ANC, Nelson Mandela's terror group did exactly the same Audrey. They even had connections with the IRA.

I know that and equally I can appreciate what Mandela did in later years - he should praised for it as McGuinness should be for his efforts to make peace and, as I see, maybe atone for the wrongs he did.

But again, like Mandela, ANC etc, we cannot and should not pretend that in his early years McGuinness was not a member of terrorist organisation who committed some heinous horrible crimes.

steddyeddy

bubblypop wrote: »

Considering Norman tebbit and his wife were both injured in the Brighton bombing, I'd cut him some slack here.
Not sure i could ever forgive anyone involved in an organisation that did that to me.

I agree but it's the Daily Mail type comments that are out of order.

steddyeddy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I know that and equally I can appreciate what Mandela did in later years - he should praised for it as McGuinness should be for his efforts to make peace and, as I see, maybe atone for the wrongs he did.

But again, like Mandela, ANC etc, we cannot and should not pretend that in his early years McGuinness was a member of terrorist organisation who committed some heinous horrible crimes.

Yes but McGuinness did try to steer the conflict away from civilians to soldiers when the IRA was under his command.

FrancieBrady

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

None of that in any way justifies planting bombs under innocent people, dragging British policemen out a car and beating them to death in front the media just because they drove the wrong through a funeral, kidnapping innocent young men, and one mother of ten, killing and burying them in unknown graves not be found for decades or the many other horrific things the IRA did and still do.

There's no point pretending atrocities didn't take place on BOTH sides of the Troubles, it does no-one any favors.

Who is pretending though?

It was a conflict/war the IRA wasn't even involved in when the most recent one broke out.

If those who cherrypick the actions of one side in the conflict on this island, did the same with, for instance, the actions of the British in winning WW2 and called them reprehensible or even, 'atrocities', they'd be laughed out of here.

The British fought back in WW2 Audrey with some of the most heinous, reprehensible violence known to man and woman kind.
Would you similarly compartmentalise and condemn that?

opinionated3

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

None of that in any way justifies planting bombs under innocent people, dragging British policemen out a car and beating them to death in front the media just because they drove the wrong through a funeral, kidnapping innocent young men, and one mother of ten, killing and burying them in unknown graves not be found for decades or the many other horrific things the IRA did and still do.

There's no point pretending atrocities didn't take place on BOTH sides of the Troubles, it does no-one any favors.

They weren't British policemen. ...they were British soldiers.