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Fourth wave feminism.

Sweetemotion

What is all that about?

We have our national papers giving columns, to people like Louise O Niell and Rosemary Mc Cabe.

Both activists for Womens rights in Ireland and the Repeal the 8 campaign.

The only argument now in Ireland they have left, is the right to abortion.

After repeal the 8 is granted is that the end of feminism in Ireland as we all have equal rights?

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Outlaw Pete

222233 wrote: »

What's wrong with "feminists" getting airtime or a column in a paper? What's so frightening about that.

Eh, where to start....

Vast majority of 3rd/4th wave feminists today are out for their own end are not looking for nor seeking equality. They are simply trying to gain social and political advantages for women, while simultaneously and sanctimoniously portraying themselves as being victims of patriarchal oppression.

The mask slips the odd time though....

https://twitter.com/NWCI/status/843058871140794369

The NWCI is tax payer funded too. The sooner that ends the better. Let them raise their own funds.

red ears

Where i work the people who completely rip the s**t out of the tea breaks are all women. They take more time off sick, more time spent at each others desks chatting. If that's typical (and i'm not saying it necessarily is) in other work places then it wouldn't surprise me if they struggle to negotiate higher pay-rises.

BunkMoreland

When's the last time you came across woman who was above average at her job? Rarely. They get paid less because they are less good at the job. Qualifications and how long you've sat in the job mean nothing. It about performance. I get paid better than my female colleagues because I'm better at the job.

Modern females perform average or below in the workplace, and they can't seem to cook anymore!

Less time moaning about rights and more time spent on skills development is what they need.

Mod: Permanently banned from After Hours.

Glenster

silverharp wrote: »

3% and you are hitting a margin of error in data collection so essentially there no pay gap worth doing anything about? its down to choices

urgh. you don't know what you're talking about.

silverharp

Glenster wrote: »

There is a gender pay gap of about 27% in Ireland. That is an unadjusted figure and means that a woman will make 73% of what a man makes.

This is partially due to the fact that women work approximately 6 hours less a week than men.

The time adjusted pay gap is 16%, that is to say that every hour a woman works is paid 84% of what a man makes.

This is partially due to the fact that women are more employed in the lowly paid caring sectors and there are more men in managerial positions that women.

The time and positional adjusted pay gap is approximately 3%, this means a woman is paid 97% what a man makes for the exact same job, same hours, experience, etc.

3% and you are hitting a margin of error in data collection so essentially there no pay gap worth doing anything about? its down to choices

Glenster

There is a gender pay gap of about 27% in Ireland. That is an unadjusted figure and means that a woman will make 73% of what a man makes.

This is partially due to the fact that women work approximately 6 hours less a week than men.

The time adjusted pay gap is 16%, that is to say that every hour a woman works is paid 84% of what a man makes.

This is partially due to the fact that women are more employed in the lowly paid caring sectors and there are more men in managerial positions that women.

The time and positional adjusted pay gap is approximately 3%, this means a woman is paid 97% what a man makes for the exact same job, same hours, experience, etc.

hatrickpatrick

Can we just agree upon a new term for these asshats? Calling them feminists is an insult to those who fought for womens' rights, the right to vote, an end to workplace discrimination, the right to drive, sexual freedom etc. Feminism is supposed to be about freedom, ergo any authoritarians who take up its banner are doing so fraudulently.

I've come to the conclusion that SJWs calling themselves "feminists" is about as legitimate as the Westboro Baptist Church calling themselves "Christians", or those who ran the Magdalene Laundries describing themselves as charitable organisations. It's about time others on the left started calling these people out for their corruption of a concept which used to stand for something good in the world.

mzungu

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I see women on here empathizing with father's rights.
I see men on here roundly saying there is no pay gap discriminating women.

Up to the age of 30, childless women earn 17% more than men. After that when maternity leave comes into play after, men will earn more than women, because they are working more hours. There is no conspiracy there. It is worth noting, that for doing the exact same job, it is against the law to pay somebody less due to their gender. So this idea men are paid more for the doing the same job as women is not true. If it was you would have lawsuits flying around to beat the band. Lastly, it was also said many times in the thread that if things like fathers rights (allowing them to take maternity leave etc) were expanded, it would go a long way to making things a lot fairer for everybody.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

An example of men keeping women down again?

Using your logic, would that not mean that women are keeping men down? Considering men earn 17% less up to the age of 30? Remember, the wage gap is there after that point because men work more hours.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Think women think!

It might be best to heed your own advice.

Sweetemotion

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I see women on here empathizing with father's rights.

I see men on here roundly saying there is no pay gap discriminating women.

An example of men keeping women down again?
Think women think!

As a person said to me once 'why are women nice to men, they are not nice to you'.

See this is fourth wave feminism.

Arghus

mariaalice wrote: »

Is there such a thing as fifth, sixth or seventh wave feminist that's what I want to know.

If there is or there is ever likely to be, you'll hear about it all day long, every single day, in After Hours.

midlandsmissus

I see women on here empathizing with father's rights.

I see men on here roundly saying there is no pay gap discriminating women.

An example of men keeping women down again?
Think women think!

As a person said to me once 'why are women nice to men, they are not nice to you'.

[Deleted User]

Sweetemotion wrote: »

What gender pay gap?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0hTrnaa8aE

Sweetemotion

222233 wrote: »

What's wrong with "feminists" getting airtime or a column in a paper? What's so frightening about that.

I'm pretty sure it's not an argument or the only argument they have left, it's a very serious issue that affects the women of this country, just because certain people speak about it doesn't solely make it a feminist issue - it could be a human rights issue, a mental health issue, a medical issue, a discrimination issue.

Nothing frightening about that. Just hypocrisy, can you name one MRA getting the same "air time" in a national paper?

As for the repeal the argument, can you tell me one other right that men have that women don't?

That's why I asked will it end feminism in Ireland.
Feminism is for equal rights for both genders. When asked what rights do men have that women don't in Ireland, is met with the answer body autonomy.

So just curious after body autonomy is allowed in Ireland we have equal rights, will it end feminism in Ireland?

One eyed Jack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Having the right and having the ability are two different things. Having the right means nothing if you don't have the security of the social situation: and the scenario I'm talking about is one where it doesn't happen (and it does happen - and a lot more to women than to men)

Example: a transgender has the right to go to the bathroom of their chosen gender, but will be beaten up if they do. Hey - they still have the right, so all is fair and equal...

Hold on a minute, if I'm to understand you correctly, then you're talking about two completely different things. Nobody has the right to assault anyone. You qualify your own statement by referring back to the scenario you previously gave as an example, and say that it happens to more women than men... and then run off on a completely different example of people who are transgender being assaulted?

So when a person who is transgender is assaulted, is it a violation of women's rights or men's rights, and is their use of the bathroom they prefer, a violation of other people's right to personal safety which you argue should have the security of the social situation?

Who's rights are being violated there exactly, because I'm lost now?

TheDavester

222233 wrote: »

What's wrong with "feminists" getting airtime or a column in a paper? What's so frightening about that.

I'm pretty sure it's not an argument or the only argument they have left, it's a very serious issue that affects the women of this country, just because certain people speak about it doesn't solely make it a feminist issue - it could be a human rights issue, a mental health issue, a medical issue, a discrimination issue.

I Think it's a certain type of feminist like LON & Una mullally (this 4th wave) who are irritating to a lot of people here and other places with their 'first world problems ' and are allowed to bash men - quite a few women I personally know are getting sick of them and the media allowing them to act as the perpetual victim ... It's these type of feminists who ruin it for other feminists who do good work/ and there genders were reversed - Larry o Neill for example would be roundly criticised

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's not the wrong word at all, it's just that you really don't have a point, as both men and women have that right, and they also have a right to make a complaint and seek justice through legal means if their rights are violated. The fact that most sexual assaults go unreported isn't something that the law can address as people cannot be forced to report assault. That doesn't take away from the fact that they have the right to report it.

Having the right and having the ability are two different things. Having the right means nothing if you don't have the security of the social situation: and the scenario I'm talking about is one where it doesn't happen (and it does happen - and a lot more to women than to men)

Example: a transgender has the right to go to the bathroom of their chosen gender, but will be beaten up if they do. Hey - they still have the right, so all is fair and equal...

[/QUOTE]
Yes, and that's why I spoke of the fact that it's more than just a persons gender that determines the value of their contribution and conditions of employment to their employer. There can never be equality in those circumstances, simply because of the fact that there are far more criteria used in making determinations regarding employment conditions for an employee than solely their gender.[/QUOTE]
Again - I never argues for or against this.

Omackeral wrote: »

I don't think that bolded part is true. In fact, I believe it was slammed by nearly everyone. Some said it was the behaviour of dickheads, others said it was sexual assault. Nobody from what I recall reading,and certainly not a lot of people, said "sure it's just a bit of craic".

Fair point, btu there were definitely people sayign that is wasn't unacceptable.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, it does... but there's a flip side. I've never grabbed a strangers ass, but mine has been grabbed before. My crouch has been grabbed too. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that women are probably more likely than men to grab strangers ass.. for a bit of craic.

Who said it had to be a woman? How owuld you feel if it was another man who grabbed you, followed you around and made unrequested sexual advances on you?

Most men I'd know are nowadays much more hesitant about initiating first physical contact. Too many chances for an assault or rape charge.

If you feel offended by someone grabbing your ass, charge them. We all have that ability. Alas, men would likely be laughed out of the police station if we tried to charge a woman for such an offence. I shudder to think of trying to report that in my local police station.

I totally agree. Again, women/feminists can be their own worst enemies.

Then how do we know they happened? Seems a bizarre statement to me.

They were reported to someone... just maybe not the authorities responsible for stopping such behavior. And that comes down to a persons choice as to how to deal with the problem.

Answered above.

[Deleted User]

Is there such a thing as fifth, sixth or seventh wave feminist that's what I want to know.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Pac1Man wrote: »

How do they know this and why are they not reported?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/making-choice-to-seek-help-is-a-big-decision--80-of-sexual-violence-cases-go-unreported-308891.html

A lot of victims go to crisis centres rather than actually reportign the crime.

Why are they not reported? Various reasons: not wanting to relive the ordeal, finding it too stressful, the fear of publicity, not wanted to face the attacker, the fear of not being believed...

steddyeddy

222233 wrote: »

The concept of feminism is to liberate women as a whole, it doesn't matter what background the people discussing it are from.

But they're not targeting all women. Like I said one of the biggest determinates of where you end up in life Is class. I think feminism should address the issues that affect working class women like access to quality education. A lot of the people who speak for feminism don't do this because they themselves received a very privileged education.

One eyed Jack

222233 wrote: »

I don't really see it that way at all, I would say the opposite, it seems to me that these so called privileged feminists are the same people speaking up for women who are less fortunate than them.

And that's exactly why there are now so many different strands in modern feminism, because the privileged few feminists who thought they were speaking on behalf of all women, are now having to face the reality that in fact they do not, and cannot speak for all women who they perceive to be less fortunate. They're trying to, of course, but it just comes across as insincere platitudes for the most part when they start talking about intersectionality, but always with themselves as the focus point.

In trying to address as many issues as possible, they've actually diluted feminism to the point where it can mean anything anyone wants it to mean, and is therefore open to attack rather than acceptance from all comers. That's why so many, many young women just cannot relate to many of the ideals of modern feminism, because it simply isn't representative of, or relative to, their experiences and their lives.

[Deleted User]

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

"Right" is probably the wrong word for the club scenario, ability would be a better word. Also, a lot men don't actually see grabbing someone's ass as a sexual offence (we had a thread on this in here recently - a lot people described it as 'a bit of craic'). And believe me, it happens.

Yes, it does... but there's a flip side. I've never grabbed a strangers ass, but mine has been grabbed before. My crouch has been grabbed too. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that women are probably more likely than men to grab strangers ass.. for a bit of craic.

Most men I'd know are nowadays much more hesitant about initiating first physical contact. Too many chances for an assault or rape charge.

If you feel offended by someone grabbing your ass, charge them. We all have that ability. Alas, men would likely be laughed out of the police station if we tried to charge a woman for such an offence. I shudder to think of trying to report that in my local police station.

Also, most sexual assaults go unreported.

Then how do we know they happened? Seems a bizarre statement to me.

They were reported to someone... just maybe not the authorities responsible for stopping such behavior. And that comes down to a persons choice as to how to deal with the problem.

222233

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ahh it does though, because their background influences whom they perceive as their oppressors that they feel a need to liberate women from. Their perception (which is informed and influenced by their own background) causes them to have a rather tunnel-vision view of society. That's why there is no such thing any more as liberating all women any more, they just want people to agree with them and don't ask any questions.

I don't really see it that way at all, I would say the opposite, it seems to me that these so called privileged feminists are the same people speaking up for women who are less fortunate than them.

One eyed Jack

222233 wrote: »

The concept of feminism is to liberate women as a whole, it doesn't matter what background the people discussing it are from.

Ahh it does though, because their background influences whom they perceive as their oppressors that they feel a need to liberate women from. Their perception (which is informed and influenced by their own background) causes them to have a rather tunnel-vision view of society. That's why there is no such thing as liberating all women any more, they just want people to agree with them and don't ask any questions.

222233

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think feminism should do more the address how class affects women. A lot of feminists seem to be from privileged backgrounds and already have a huge advantage through private schools ect. Their situation will be different from most women.

The concept of feminism is to liberate women as a whole, it doesn't matter what background the people discussing it are from.

silverharp

this is worth a watch, Jordan Peterson buts a good case for the balance of men/women "at the top"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awot-d8U9Cc

[Deleted User]

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

"Right" is probably the wrong word for the club scenario, ability would be a better word. Also, a lot men don't actually see grabbing someone's ass as a sexual offence (we had a thread on this in here recently - a lot people described it as 'a bit of craic'). And believe me, it happens.

I don't think that bolded part is true. In fact, I believe it was slammed by nearly everyone. Some said it was the behaviour of dickheads, others said it was sexual assault. Nobody from what I recall reading,and certainly not a lot of people, said "sure it's just a bit of craic".

steddyeddy

I think feminism should do more the address how class affects women. A lot of feminists seem to be from privileged backgrounds and already have a huge advantage through private schools ect. Their situation will be different from most women.

One eyed Jack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

"Right" is probably the wrong word for the club scenario, ability would be a better word. Also, a lot men don't actually see grabbing someone's ass as a sexual offence (we had a thread on this in here recently - a lot people described it as 'a bit of craic'). And believe me, it happens.

Also, most sexual assaults go unreported.

It's not the wrong word at all, it's just that you really don't have a point, as both men and women have that right, and they also have a right to make a complaint and seek justice through legal means if their rights are violated. The fact that most sexual assaults go unreported isn't something that the law can address as people cannot be forced to report assault. That doesn't take away from the fact that they have the right to report it.

Regarding employment - i know what i said but there's still no connection with your response. I never spoke of getting the job in the first place, or hiring criteria. I spoke of equality after the position is appointed.

Yes, and that's why I spoke of the fact that it's more than just a persons gender that determines the value of their contribution and conditions of employment to their employer. There can never be equality in those circumstances, simply because of the fact that there are far more criteria used in making determinations regarding employment conditions for an employee than solely their gender.

222233

Sweetemotion wrote: »

What is all that about?

We have our national papers giving columns, to people like Louise O Niell and Rosemary Mc Cabe.

Both activists for Womens rights in Ireland and the Repeal the 8 campaign.

The only argument now in Ireland they have left, is the right to abortion.

After repeal the 8 is granted is that the end of feminism in Ireland as we all have equal rights?

What's wrong with "feminists" getting airtime or a column in a paper? What's so frightening about that.

I'm pretty sure it's not an argument or the only argument they have left, it's a very serious issue that affects the women of this country, just because certain people speak about it doesn't solely make it a feminist issue - it could be a human rights issue, a mental health issue, a medical issue, a discrimination issue.

buckwheat

I wouldn't worry about it. As far as I can tell it only exists on the Internet and in universities. I've never encountered any of it in real life. Never even heard it mentioned.