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Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

sparrowcar

Contact lost just before 0100 off the west coast of Achill island on a rescue mission.
Search in progress including all available ships and Rescue 115.

Hopefully a positive outcome to this.

Please keep replies civil, and respectful of the crew and their families.

Please do not speculate as to any cause unless you have a factual basis to do so (and can back it up with information released to the public).

There will be zero tolerance for troublemakers or those that choose to ignore these guidelines.

There are other moderator messages in the thread, as a result of issues that have arisen, and we will be less forgiving going forward, due to the ongoing sensitivity of this incident

As per normal boards guidance, any comments on moderation are off topic and should be addressed directly to mods or cmods by PM. Any part of posts which are off topic in such a manner may be edited or removed, with possible sanction. Non news posts will be moved to the parallel R116 Non news and discussion thread

Should any new reports, updates or news stories come out, posts which can be boiled down to "I Told You So" or other triumphalism about previous commentary will result in significant punishment.

Any threadbans will carry over to any replacement thread should this approach 10,000 posts

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martinsvi

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

With a 24-second frequency, though, it's not much use to an aircrew flying in a 300-ft ceiling and 3 km visibility. Flying at 100 knots there would be only 1 flash visible within that 3-km range. Blink and you'll miss it.

Commissioner of Irish Lights website says Black Rock lighthouse is Fl WR 5s, means flashing white red, pulse is 5 seconds- more than enough to spot it in time even in poor vis

rushfan

smurfjed wrote:

Photo taken from Dailymail.co.uk. What an amazing tribute from the IRFU.

I was lucky enough to be there yesterday. Apart from a bit of noise from the bars, this was observed impeccably.

Coil Kilcrea

rushfan wrote: »

I was lucky enough to be there yesterday. Apart from a bit of noise from the bars, this was observed impeccably.

And Joseph O'Connor wrote a beautiful tribute in the Independent which is well worth reading.

Coil Kilcrea

eagerv wrote: »

Many Lighthouses around our coast are fitted with fixed AIS transmitters, including I am fairly certain Blackrock.

In times of poor Vis surely these are of more use than the lights.

What are fixed AIS?
Thanks

vicwatson

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

And Joseph O'Connor wrote a beautiful tribute in the Independent which is well worth reading.

As did Kevin Myers in Sunday times

ED E

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

What are fixed AIS?
Thanks

Via wiki:

The automatic identification system (AIS) is an automatic tracking system used for collision avoidance on ships and by vessel traffic services (VTS).

Planes use ADS-B to report position, boats and helis flying low use AIS. Thats how sites like FlightRadar24(ADS-B) and MarineTraffic(AIS) work.

Gaoth Laidir

martinsvi wrote: »

Commissioner of Irish Lights website says Black Rock lighthouse is Fl WR 5s, means flashing white red, pulse is 5 seconds- more than enough to spot it in time even in poor vis

This link says it's 12 seconds. I got the 24 seconds from murphaph's post (which he has since corrected to 12).

http://www.irishlights.ie/tourism/our-lighthouses/black-rock-(mayo).aspx

It's all academic anyway as visibility at flight level would have been near zero and not the 3 km reported at sea level at Belmullet.

Coil Kilcrea

I'm familiar with SAR Helicopters landing on water under power at air shows etc. and I recall reading some while ago that deployable floats can be fitted for emergency water landings. To those of you more knowledgeable, I'm wondering is there an expected or certified 'float time' to allow crew and passengers to escape in the event of an emergency ditching on water?

Bigbok

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

I'm familiar with SAR Helicopters landing on water under power at air shows etc. and I recall reading some while ago that deployable floats can be fitted for emergency water landings. To those of you more knowledgeable, I'm wondering is there an expected or certified 'float time' to allow crew and passengers to escape in the event of an emergency ditching on water?

Hi,the S92 that we use to take us to our oil rig and back has floats in the pontunes(spelling I know)

They are designed to keep the chopper afloat if it does a water ditching

homerjay2005

martinsvi wrote: »

Commissioner of Irish Lights website says Black Rock lighthouse is Fl WR 5s, means flashing white red, pulse is 5 seconds- more than enough to spot it in time even in poor vis

the flight map shown earlier in the thread shows they (as in the crew and/or the chopper itself) definately were aware it was there as they flew towards it and then around it and swung back in.

The_Wanderer

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the flight map shown earlier in the thread shows they (as in the crew and/or the chopper itself) definately were aware it was there as they flew towards it and then around it and swung back in.

What post was that map on? I went looking for it earlier but couldn't find it.

Coil Kilcrea

Bigbok wrote: »

Hi,the S92 that we use to take us to our oil rig and back has floats in the pontunes(spelling I know)

They are designed to keep the chopper afloat if it does a water ditching

Thanks!

I attended a safety briefing where they showed a video of 3 pontoons, one either side of the front of the cabin and one at the rear. I'm not sure if they automatically inflate (like airplane slides) or have to be manually triggered. In any event, they provide stability.

coillsaille

Granuaile and navy heading in now.

mulbot

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the flight map shown earlier in the thread shows they (as in the crew and/or the chopper itself) definately were aware it was there as they flew towards it and then around it and swung back in.

What might be the more probable reasons the helicopter was doing this?

Bazzy

Two boats LE Eithne & Granuaile seem to be heading back to Blacksod

Wonder will they have any news

cosanostra

Bazzy wrote: »

Two boats LE Eithne & Granuaile seem to be heading back to Blacksod

Wonder will they have any news

Don't think they were out long enough to deploy ROV maybe weather turned on them, sub surface survey was carried out earlier by the smaller boats

homerjay2005

mulbot wrote: »

What might be the more probable reasons the helicopter was doing this?

standard operating procedure.

what ever did happen, happened between the turn and the island but nobody knows yet what exactly that is!

The_Wanderer

mulbot wrote: »

What might be the more probable reasons the helicopter was doing this?

I met a guy today who is in the defense forces and gave me a very plausible reason why they did that. But as speculation isn't allowed......

But I'm sticking to that theory and it will be interesting to see what happens over the next several days.

The_Wanderer

homerjay2005 wrote: »

standard operating procedure.

What is the standard operating procedures for landing?

siobhan08

A councilor is calling for the flags on government buildings to be lowered to half-mast in tribute to the crew.

I'm a bit surprised this hasn't done already being honest. The ICG is part of the state's emergency services

faoiarvok

siobhan08 wrote: »

A councilors is calling for the flags on government buildings to be lowered to half-mast in tribute to the crew.

I'm a bit surprised this hasn't done already being honest. The ICG is part of the state's emergency service

Wondered myself, but I figure they're waiting for the rest of the crew to be recovered

FixdePitchmark

very very surprised that there is not an automatic beacon on impact with water ?

Unless it is felt that it would cause too many nuisance calls ?

Sterling Archer

faoiarvok wrote: »

Wondered myself, but I figure they're waiting for the rest of the crew to be recovered

I be of the same opinion along with at least one day of mourning

eagerv

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

What are fixed AIS?
Thanks

Often called AIS Base stations.
They are on many lighthouses and buoys

wotswattage

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

very very surprised that there is not an automatic beacon on impact with water ?

Unless it is felt that it would cause too many nuisance calls ?

The chopper has one installed on its exterior which is designed to transmit if it becomes immersed in water. It's also designed to detach and float off in an impact.

I understand the liferafts on board also have beacons which I would assume begin transmitting only once the raft is deployed by a member of the crew.

Finally the crew themselves all have beacons which apparently require manual activation in the case of coast guard crew.

Nothing on board R116 was activated either automatically or manually (bar the black box underwater pinger).

In accidents where there has been an extreme impact or catastrophic failure it is known for none of the automatic or manual beacons to be operable. Only time can tell us what happened R116...

martinsvi

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

This link says it's 12 seconds. I got the 24 seconds from murphaph's post (which he has since corrected to 12).

http://www.irishlights.ie/tourism/our-lighthouses/black-rock-(mayo).aspx

It's all academic anyway as visibility at flight level would have been near zero and not the 3 km reported at sea level at Belmullet.

jeez, how many black rocks can this country have! my bad, I was looking at the one in Sligo, not Mayo.. right, so 12 seconds make it a bit more hairy.. Irrelevant anyway, I'm sure with all the gizmos and SOPs they were definitely not relying on lighthouse to provide a guidance.. I was only bringing it in the conversation because it would, in my mind, serve as the very ultimate all-fail scenario "backup" which we have no evidence of anyway

the hook they did around the lighthouse looks like a standard cloud-break manouvre - you basically follow the GPS to guide you some 5-10NM out in the sea and break the cloud where there's very little risk of encountering terrain .. or sea-birds. Or people with funny devices.. Typically there's also a lot less chance of seeing fog or very low cloud out in the ocean than it would be close to the shores due to temperature difference.

We can gather so far from the AIS outputs -- not that we can fully trust them--, but it looks like they were happy with what they were seeing and they where plowing away in speed.. what happened next is a mystery, and that's where I refuse to entertain this conversation any further. I think, the very little things that we have to go by - the level of experience the crew had, the gizmos, the familiarity of the terrain, the SOPs and so on, make CFIT a very unlikely scenario.. not entirely impossible, but definitely of all the possible speculations it is the least advantaged..

seriously I was kind of expecting that so many days after the crash, the main focus of the speculations would be how FAA issued emergency AD on S92s, or discussion of North Sea accident just couple of months ago, or how S92's were grounded just in January (all still relating to 1 incident, but something that could of been blown out of proportion more readily than some guy pointing to his cute little sky demon app that the flippin rock is not there, therefore implying CIFT)

Welruc

How was it if 116 was needed for top cover the rescue still went ahead without it?

By all acounts the guy rescued was not in a life or death situation.

FixdePitchmark

deuceswild wrote: »

How was it if 116 was needed for top cover the rescue still went ahead without it?

By all acounts the guy rescued was not in a life or death situation.

I'm hoping this is not true.

Two helicopters - the loss of one , for a person not in a life and death situation.

Cianmcliam

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'm hoping this is not true.

Two helicopters - the loss of one , for a person not in a life and death situation.

Well apparently they circled for an hour or so looking for 116 before landing with the casualty.

siobhan08

faoiarvok wrote: »

Wondered myself, but I figure they're waiting for the rest of the crew to be recovered

yeah I see that point but at this point its pretty obvious the entire crew has past away so it's the least they could do IMO. It might happen on Tuesday

Would I be right in saying it's the worst loss of life to befall our emergency services in one incident?