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Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

sparrowcar

Contact lost just before 0100 off the west coast of Achill island on a rescue mission.
Search in progress including all available ships and Rescue 115.

Hopefully a positive outcome to this.

Please keep replies civil, and respectful of the crew and their families.

Please do not speculate as to any cause unless you have a factual basis to do so (and can back it up with information released to the public).

There will be zero tolerance for troublemakers or those that choose to ignore these guidelines.

There are other moderator messages in the thread, as a result of issues that have arisen, and we will be less forgiving going forward, due to the ongoing sensitivity of this incident

As per normal boards guidance, any comments on moderation are off topic and should be addressed directly to mods or cmods by PM. Any part of posts which are off topic in such a manner may be edited or removed, with possible sanction. Non news posts will be moved to the parallel R116 Non news and discussion thread

Should any new reports, updates or news stories come out, posts which can be boiled down to "I Told You So" or other triumphalism about previous commentary will result in significant punishment.

Any threadbans will carry over to any replacement thread should this approach 10,000 posts

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Discodog

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Search for Coast Guard helicopter to focus on 'three hour window'

Those quotes confirm that she was recovered from the sea & where the "still strapped in" comment came from.

TomOnBoard

Negative_G wrote: »

Your post is a tad sensationalist and unnecessary.

Eeeeasy, Hoss! My post was clearly tongue in cheek, as you had referred to matters considered beyond the Pale last night. I'll replace my :eek::eek::eek: with

. Better now?

Discodog

...And Justice wrote: »

Thanks, I still have it in my head, how the others were not nearby. Still can't understand why the others haven't been found? The pings from the chopper were still live 15 hours after on marine traffic.

It shows on marine traffic but it wasn't transponding. It's a latest position & not updated.

Despite all the training it is extremely difficult to exit a helicopter in a catastrophic event. It may well be that she was checking something & not tethered.

The ping from the recorder wasn't found until much later during the sea search

nuac

XsApollo wrote: »

I know nothing about aircraft and stuff, but have been following the thread.

Weather is brutal here in Shannon, windy , gusty and heavy rain.

Same on Mayo coast.

Even after wind dies, there will be a big swell from the Atlantic. Dangerous for divers

Steve

...And Justice wrote: »

Thanks, I still have it in my head, how the others were not nearby. Still can't understand why the others haven't been found? The pings from the chopper were still live 15 hours after on marine traffic.

I don't understand it either, tidal streams are minimal in the area, (despite what someone said on newstalk) I've been around there several times in a sailing boat .

sjb25

Discodog wrote: »

Those quotes confirm that she was recovered from the sea & where the "still strapped in" comment came from.

http://news.sky.com/story/search-for-irish-helicopter-crew-after-crash-10804331

ED E

...And Justice wrote: »

Thanks, I still have it in my head, how the others were not nearby. Still can't understand why the others haven't been found? The pings from the chopper were still live 15 hours after on marine traffic.

I dont want to be overly speculative but if the aircraft broke up due to CFIT prior to impacting the water it doesn't seem implausible that somebody could be ejected prior to the remaining fuselage sinking to the floor.

Or has there been clarification that remains arent colocated with the blackbox? Happy to be corrected there if I've missed coverage regarding that.
EDIT:

sjb25 wrote: »

http://news.sky.com/story/search-for-irish-helicopter-crew-after-crash-10804331

"Three men missing since their search and rescue helicopter crashed off the west coast of Ireland may be strapped in their seats in the wreckage."

This appears to satisfy why they havent been found, why their personal beacons were never detected etc.

nuac

Discodog wrote: »

This is a classic case where a drone could be extremely useful to survey the wreckage, on the Island, that can't be reached

Agreed, as long as they are run only by the agencies involved

Discodog

ED E wrote: »

I dont want to be overly speculative but if the aircraft broke up due to CFIT prior to impacting the water it doesn't seem implausible that somebody could be ejected prior to the remaining fuselage sinking to the floor.

Or has there been clarification that remains arent colocated with the blackbox? Happy to be corrected there if I've missed coverage regarding that.
EDIT:

"Three men missing since their search and rescue helicopter crashed off the west coast of Ireland may be strapped in their seats in the wreckage."

This appears to satisfy why they havent been found, why their personal beacons were never detected etc.

The interview suggests that they think the blackbox is in the fuselage with the crew. A helicopter hitting the sea at speed is like hitting concrete. Add in the effect of the rotors & anyone not strapped in can be ejected especially if the door was open or broke away. The rescue drills are based on a controlled ditch at sea & the helicopter rolling over as the engines are on top

cosanostra

Discodog wrote: »

It shows on marine traffic but it wasn't transponding. It's a latest position & not updated.

Despite all the training it is extremely difficult to exit a helicopter in a catastrophic event. It may well be that she was checking something & not tethered.

The ping from the recorder wasn't found until much later during the sea search

If a pilot had time to go have a look at something they would have had time to send mayday, their main focus would be trying to fly the helicopter. whatever happened here was very sudden and over very quick

Van.Bosch

ED E wrote: »

I dont want to be overly speculative but if the aircraft broke up due to CFIT prior to impacting the water it doesn't seem implausible that somebody could be ejected prior to the remaining fuselage sinking to the floor.

Or has there been clarification that remains arent colocated with the blackbox? Happy to be corrected there if I've missed coverage regarding that.
EDIT:

"Three men missing since their search and rescue helicopter crashed off the west coast of Ireland may be strapped in their seats in the wreckage."

This appears to satisfy why they havent been found, why their personal beacons were never detected etc.

This is the one part that has confused me since Tuesday, how the pilot was the only one found.

TomOnBoard

Are the forecasted winds in the area between today and Sunday likely to cause significant underwater movement at the depth at which the main wreckage is lying? Just wondering, as if it is reasonably well cushioned where it is, and will not be compromised further, does it take some urgency off the recovery efforts (in the interests of maximising safety in a hostile environment topside)?

Discodog

Steve wrote: »

I don't understand it either, tidal streams are minimal in the area, (despite what someone said on newstalk) I've been around there several times in a sailing boat .

But if she was in the water for 5 hours she could of drifted. Plus I don't recall seeing where she was recovered.

Gaoth Laidir

It is possible that she survived the crash, freed herself but succomed to her injuries later. All speculation of course

Discodog

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

It is possible that she survived the crash, freed herself but siccome to her injuries later. All speculation of course

Not really. Unlikely that anyone could survive that long in the sea.

Gaoth Laidir

Discodog wrote: »

Not really. Unlikely that anyone could survive that long in the sea.

That's what I'm saying. Survived the impact, freed herself but didn't survive thereafter.

Steve

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Are the forecasted winds in the area between today and Sunday likely to cause significant underwater movement at the depth at which the main wreckage is lying? Just wondering, as if it is reasonably well cushioned where it is, and will not be compromised further, does it take some urgency off the recovery efforts (in the interests of maximising safety in a hostile environment topside)?

No but it will make any recovery ops impossible.

Discodog

cosanostra wrote: »

If a pilot had time to go have a look at something they would have had time to send mayday, their main focus would be trying to fly the helicopter. whatever happened here was very sudden and over very quick

She could of been at the back of the aircraft. Maybe a comfort break.

Steve

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

It is possible that she survived the crash, freed herself but succomed to her injuries later. All speculation of course

Discodog wrote: »

Not really. Unlikely that anyone could survive that long in the sea.

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

That's what I'm saying. Survived the impact, freed herself but didn't survive thereafter.

Really?

No speculation, read the first post again.

cram1971

Another possible reason for the no fly restriction is when they recover any crew or reckage they can inform the families with proper accurate information.

Storm 10

...And Justice wrote: »

Thanks, I still have it in my head, how the others were not nearby. Still can't understand why the others haven't been found? The pings from the chopper were still live 15 hours after on marine traffic.

There are no pings when Marine Traffic is turned off, the color fades away but it stays for a number of hours to show where the last contact was recorded. Check the other helicopters even though they are shut down you can still see what track they done before shut down

adam88

Discodog wrote: »

She could of been at the back of the aircraft. Maybe a comfort break.

I think at a delicate stage of the fight I.e preparing to land in poor visibility, the sop's would require for both to be in the cockpit

TomOnBoard

Steve wrote: »

No but it will make any recovery ops impossible.

I understand that, but if swells and topside turmoil don't degrade the integrity of the fuselage and its contents, then discretion will be the better part of valour. I'm sure the professionals will have all this well within their strategy; however it may need underlining for the rest of us over the coming days as the urge to recover might not be able to be met a quickly as everyone might like.

This is where the communications strategy is very important. Indeed the CoastGuard service and AAIU seems to have been very well served by their spokespersons since the tragedy occurred, and they have been well able to bridle the kind of solution-hunting questioning Prime Time engaged in last night. As the days go on, they will need to get further out in front of the situation, to manage expectations, explain circumstances and keep relatives and colleagues informed of progress (even where that is limited by circumstances).

Gadgetman496

Steve wrote: »

Already answered elsewhere.

Well I have read all of both threads and did read lengthy posts on why is was being closed but I guess I missed the 'what it was going to achieve' by opening it again under a different title bit.

Discodog

adam88 wrote: »

I think at a delicate stage of the fight I.e preparing to land in poor visibility, the sop's would require for both to be in the cockpit

Some of the SAR pilots on another forum suggested the opposite. That it was a routine procedure. How many escape hatches are there ?

faoiarvok

Discodog wrote: »

She could of been at the back of the aircraft. Maybe a comfort break.

I don't believe either pilot would be out of their seat at the time. An approach through cloud looking for visual contact with the ground is a critical phase of flight. One pilot would be concentrated on flying while the other is monitoring systems and looking out for surface contact.

I don't believe either pilot would leave their seat at any time in flight in this aircraft, but particularly in this part of a flight.

uck51js9zml2yt

On a side note.
The Coast Guard Station on Howth Pier are open in the afternoons this weekend with a book of condolences.
They are appreciative of people calling in.

Popped in today to sign the book.

Stheno

Valentina Savory Pacemaker wrote: »

On a side note.
The Coast Guard Station on Howth Pier are open in the afternoons this weekend with a book of condolences.
They are appreciative of people calling in.

Popped in today to sign the book.

Good to know, thanks will pop in Sunday are they beside the yacht club?

Calina

Stheno wrote: »

Valentina Savory Pacemaker wrote: »

On a side note.
The Coast Guard Station on Howth Pier are open in the afternoons this weekend with a book of condolences.
They are appreciative of people calling in.

Popped in today to sign the book.

Good to know, thanks will pop in Sunday are they beside the yacht club?

That is the RNLI. Coast Guard is on west pier along where the trawlers and fish shops are.

tricky D

Valentina Savory Pacemaker wrote: »

On a side note.
The Coast Guard Station on Howth Pier are open in the afternoons this weekend with a book of condolences.
They are appreciative of people calling in.

Popped in today to sign the book.

Stheno wrote: »

Good to know, thanks will pop in Sunday are they beside the yacht club?

West Pier on the corner before Expert Hardware.

Book of Condolences notice said open for signing between 12 and 2pm on Sat and Sun.