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Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

sparrowcar

Contact lost just before 0100 off the west coast of Achill island on a rescue mission.
Search in progress including all available ships and Rescue 115.

Hopefully a positive outcome to this.

Please keep replies civil, and respectful of the crew and their families.

Please do not speculate as to any cause unless you have a factual basis to do so (and can back it up with information released to the public).

There will be zero tolerance for troublemakers or those that choose to ignore these guidelines.

There are other moderator messages in the thread, as a result of issues that have arisen, and we will be less forgiving going forward, due to the ongoing sensitivity of this incident

As per normal boards guidance, any comments on moderation are off topic and should be addressed directly to mods or cmods by PM. Any part of posts which are off topic in such a manner may be edited or removed, with possible sanction. Non news posts will be moved to the parallel R116 Non news and discussion thread

Should any new reports, updates or news stories come out, posts which can be boiled down to "I Told You So" or other triumphalism about previous commentary will result in significant punishment.

Any threadbans will carry over to any replacement thread should this approach 10,000 posts

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Gaoth Laidir

Here is the nautical map of Black Rock, with sea depth in metres.

And LE Eithne's past track

Sterling Archer

What are the current water conditions? I'm assuming it getting very choppy now

cosanostra

"The conditions are too dangerous for diving today due to 6 metre swells. Naval and Garda divers have returned to port" - Fergal O'Brien TV3

Gaoth Laidir

cosanostra wrote: »

"The conditions are too dangerous for diving today due to 6 metre swells. Naval and Garda divers have returned to port" - Fergal O'Brien TV3

6 metres? I doubt that very much.

Storm 10

Air Corps 112 was landing at UHG Galway at 1pm and I never saw so many people stopping their cars and getting out to see it land, I think people will have a new found respect for our rescue services from now on.

Buffman

Shane_ef wrote: »

What are the current water conditions? I'm assuming it getting very choppy now

Force 6 warning at the moment.

Marine Weather Warnings

STATUS YELLOW

Small Craft Warning

West to northwest winds will reach force 6 or higher today on coasts from Slyne Head to Rossan Point to Fair Head.
Issued:
Thursday 16 March 2017 12:00

nelly17

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

6 metres? I doubt that very much.

I don't

Belmullet
Latest Data
Date: 16 Mar 2017 14:17
Sig. Wave Height(M): 4.900
Avg Period(s): 8.042
Direction(°): 281.300
Sea Temp.(°C): 9.650
HMax(M): 6.790
Tmax(s): 7.000
H 1/3(M): 4.560
H10(M): 5.620

Green Peter

How does a fixed wing provide top cover, if something happened to 118, what could it really do other than call for coastguard assistance from another unit??

dastardly00

Green Peter wrote: »

How does a fixed wing provide top cover, if something happened to 118, what could it really do other than call for coastguard assistance from another unit??

See Negative G's post

Negative_G wrote: »

Top cover has two functions.

1. It serves as a line of communications to ATC. It also allows the helicopter to radio details of the patient back to mainland and they can then decide where best to send the patient if they are critically ill.

2. In the event of the rescue helicopter ditching, top cover can route to the scene immediately to initiate a rescue. If a helicopter is used, it can obviously winch survivers to safety provided they know where the helicopter ditched as they would not generally be visual during the operation.

A fixed wing Aircraft such as a Casa is a far better platform for long range SAR. It has the ability to shadow the helicopter all the way to and from the coast. It can use on board radar to give the helicopter crew accurate vectors toward the vessel by using AIS, therefore allowing it to potentially gain extra time on station. It can loiter overhead for many hours, keeping "eyes on" the rescue whilst providing the crew with updates and relaying of messages. In the even of a ditching the casa has the ability to deploy life rafts from the aircraft. It can also fire flares to provide illumination.

In short, the Casa is far more suitable for long range SAR ops than another helicopter.

cosanostra

CHC have issues a statement honouring the crew of rescue 116 http://www.chcheli.com/node/71

Calina

cosanostra wrote: »

CHC have issues a statement honouring the crew of rescue 116 http://www.chcheli.com/node/71

It is really lovely.

Gadgetman496

Storm 10 wrote: »

Air Corps 112 was landing at UHG Galway at 1pm and I never saw so many people stopping their cars and getting out to see it land, I think people will have a new found respect for our rescue services from now on.

Fair play to them all.

I think everyone already had a huge silent sense of respect for that service and its crews. I suppose it is hard to show it really when most times you see them they are hundreds of feet in the air.

What you saw today is testament to the grief the general public are feeling following this horrendous tragedy. It's such a national loss.

Gaoth Laidir

nelly17 wrote: »

I don't

Belmullet
Latest Data
Date: 16 Mar 2017 14:17
Sig. Wave Height(M): 4.900
Avg Period(s): 8.042
Direction(°): 281.300
Sea Temp.(°C): 9.650
HMax(M): 6.790
Tmax(s): 7.000
H 1/3(M): 4.560
H10(M): 5.620

OK, so they're talking about significant wave height, not swell, which is technically different and normally much less than swh. A pedantic difference that makes no difference whatsoever to the topic at hand so I will move on...

arubex

skallywag wrote: »

I would be very surprised if any private helicopter company that offers SAR services would also actively maintain and operate fixed-wing assets for the sole purpose of providing cover. If such a service was to be provided I would imagine that it would be outsourced, with the most suitable candidate for taking it up possibly being the military.

In the UK top-cover is provided RVL Ltd based in East Midlands, they have twin-turbine F406s in Maritime & Coastguard Agency livery which forward-deploy for major incidents and also perform pollution control.

http://rvl-group.com/project/case-study-mca/

As you deduced it's a separate contract to the heli SAR service.

The RAF used to provide offshore top-cover with the Nimrods but unlike the Air Corps they were actually briefed and funded for that mission, it didn't eat into their primary mission budget as a freebie to support a commercial company.

Kalimah

cosanostra wrote: »

CHC have issues a statement honouring the crew of rescue 116 http://www.chcheli.com/node/71

There's a link at the end of that statement for people to send condolences and good wishes, which I have just done.

greenspurs

Kalimah wrote: »

There's a link at the end of that statement for people to send condolences and good wishes, which I have just done.

Even reading about them makes a tragedy even worse....

ted1

Negative_G wrote: »

The AC still maintain a, albeit quite limited, SAR capability. They often conduct both wet and dry winching exercises which are publicised via social media. While they have lost many pilots and aircrew to retirements since the SAR era, it would be incorrect to say they cannot provide that function.

The AW139 can be equipped at short notice with a full winching system. The Air Corps have this equipment at their disposal and again it can be seen on social media.

I would imagine that the AC are providing a limited service to the east coast until such time as normal service resumes.

There was a case, several years ago where a 139 happened to be training in Dublin bay and was tasked to a live rescue which it completed successfully. I can't find a link at this time unfortunately.

The capability is there but the reality is that SAR is not a primary role for heli wing.

I would agree with other posters that given the size of the contract a fixed wing asset should be provided by CHC to cover all eventualities. I am not sure whether CHC have anything like this in place globally though.

Do the RAF/BRITS still provide cover, I'd imagine an incident on the east coast would be easily covered by them.

ted1

Green Peter wrote: »

How does a fixed wing provide top cover, if something happened to 118, what could it really do other than call for coastguard assistance from another unit??

Don't fixed wing drop life rafts.

DOCARCH

ted1 wrote: »

Don't fixed wing drop life rafts.

They can, but depends on the aircraft.

Once (at least) the government jet was used to provide top cover for an SAR operation!

Main purpose for top cover is communication.

Alun

DOCARCH wrote: »

Main purpose for top cover is communication.

Would that not be possible using satellite comms?

The Black Oil

cosanostra wrote: »

CHC have issues a statement honouring the crew of rescue 116 http://www.chcheli.com/node/71

In case anyone wishes to.

An email address, Rescue116@chcheli.com, has been created for people to send messages of support, condolences and photographs. We will share these messages with the crew's families.

Tabnabs

Alun wrote: »

Would that not be possible using satellite comms?

Sat comms means sat phone, not something a helicopter carries. VHF is the most practical bit of kit as ships, shore based personnel, Rescue Coordination Centres can all talk to one another.

horsefarm

If theres talk of a sudden complete electrical failure, I wonder do the other crews have an additional sense of worry for their own helicopters (on top of their devestation for their colleagues) yet continue to work bravely for the sake of others

greenspurs

Granuaile passing Aranmore lighthouse (Dungloe) @ 16.25 heading for Blacksod

homerjay2005

horsefarm wrote: »

If theres talk of a sudden complete electrical failure, I wonder do the other crews have an additional sense of worry for their own helicopters (on top of their devestation for their colleagues) yet continue to work bravely for the sake of others

thats the worry for everybody i think. until they get the FDR, theres a doubt there.

arubex

ted1 wrote: »

Do the RAF/BRITS still provide cover, I'd imagine an incident on the east coast would be easily covered by them.

Not the RAF or RN, no suitable assets or training. They are trained & equipped for CSAR but that's a completely different method of operating which usually involves opposed landings.

Bristow have the MCA contract for west coast and the S-92s from Valley and Prestwick have occasionally performed NI SAR when ICG / CHC unavailable so I imagine they could assist farther south too.

Why was the heli sent from Dublin anyway? Aren't there two at Shannon?

ectoraige

FrancieBrady wrote: »

May be a stupid question but what is the purpose of 'top cover'?

I thought it was to provide a rescue capability if there is a problem with the other helicopter.
If it is better carried out by a fixed wing craft then I obviously don't have a grasp of what it is they do.

Storm 10 wrote: »

Like others I wonder what was the reason contact was not established with Rescue 118 that should have been a worry a lot of things will need to be looked at before a long range mission takes place again,

They wouldn't be unduly worried because despite poor VHF comms, there would have still been transponder data showing them that R118 was operating normally. They were going to top up their fuel levels before heading out to re-establish comms with R118.

ItsLikeThis wrote: »

Has there been any indication of the condition of the man being rescued? On the early rte news reports there was someone who I assume was him walking away from 118 holding his hand after the rescue. Do the trawlers stop fishing and try close the gap for the coastguard?

Looking at R118's flight path in the time frame, they were still returning from the trawler when R116 was declared missing and proceeded directly to search for them. They didn't appear to land for another hour I think, so you can assume the casualty was not in a serious life-threatening condition. Hope the poor guy isn't consumed with guilt.

roadmaster wrote: »

i hope this will not come across bad. But who now covers the East coast. Is it as simple and cold that CHC have a contact with the Dept of transport and the spare S92 will be sent to Dublin to take up station or due to the awful events would the Air corps AW139 that is fitted out for SAR would now cover the east coast until the coastguard can get back up and running at Dublin?

CHC have a spare S92 that is routinely used when another unit is undergoing maintenance. This will be put into service and CHC will have to source another identical type to hold as spare. Crew are only rated for this type so they have to make sure it's fitted out the same. In the meantime I expect there may be reduced coverage during maintenance windows so there may be a greater reliance on Air Corp or UK resources.

ectoraige

arubex wrote: »

Not the RAF or RN, no suitable assets or training. They are trained & equipped for CSAR but that's a completely different method of operating which usually involves opposed landings.

Bristow have the MCA contract for west coast and the S-92s from Valley and Prestwick have occasionally performed NI SAR when ICG / CHC unavailable so I imagine they could assist farther south too.

Why was the heli sent from Dublin anyway? Aren't there two at Shannon?

The second at shannon was maintenance spare only. It appears to be a normal enough arrangement, in fact the two carried out a very similar mission just a week previously with R118 effecting rescue from a Russian trawler with R116 providing top cover.

faoiarvok

arubex wrote: »

Why was the heli sent from Dublin anyway? Aren't there two at Shannon?

While the spare heli might be based at Shannon, it is used to replace any one of the other aircraft while it is out of service for maintenance – and it could well have been in the middle of maintenance itself. The base would not have crew on duty to operate two aircraft at once.

I'm speculating, but my guess is that rather than send 2 aircraft from West coast bases, the plan was to divide the workload, leaving Waterford to cover the East coast and Shannon to cover the West while 116 & 118 were out on the shout.

homerjay2005

only real update for today, everythign else is impacted by weather.

Fergal O'Brien TV3‏Verified account @FergalOBrienTV3 1h1 hour ago

An Aer Corps helicopter has carried out a close assessment at Blackrock Lighthouse as part of #Rescue116 search