Official Conor McGregor thread (part 3) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

Wont fight an actual professional for about 15 year going by Bellators way of grooming talent, so a few wins against bums and we wont hear the end of it.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah I liked him for like 5 minutes until he started acting like he was world champion when nobody knew who he was. I hope he loses tbh

To be fair, he's a 4 time world champion (2014 Brown x 4)
People knew who is was long before long before he was "McGregor's Sparring partner".

dashoonage

I wish Conor McDanis all the best in his mma career.

Bellator athlete outfitting sponsored buy Lidl

Mellor wrote: »

To be fair, he's a 4 time world champion (2014 Brown x 4)
People knew who is was long before long before he was "McGregor's Sparring partner".

To be fair though, BJJ is a niche sport and his fame/popularity before he was McGregor training partner was nothing compared to what it is now. If I was to guess I'd say he's at known by at least 10 times more people than before.

It's a pity, but BJJ just doesn't attract any interest for the casual observer. The vast majority of spectators are people who train/compete. Very few casual spectators.

Effects

Mellor wrote: »

To be fair, he's a 4 time world champion (2014 Brown x 4)
People knew who is was long before long before he was "McGregor's Sparring partner".

"Yeah, but what's his MMA record" seems to be all most people care about.

Effects

Django99 wrote: »

It's a pity, but BJJ just doesn't attract any interest for the casual observer. The vast majority of spectators are people who train/compete. Very few casual spectators.

I guess it's not very interesting to look at to the casual observer.

No its absolutely boring for casual fans, EBI is trying to appeal to the casuals with time limits sub only rules.

Call Me Jimmy

Speaking as a casual it's just too technical and not a natural spectacle. It's a different language.

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Speaking as a casual it's just too technical and not a natural spectacle. It's a different language.

Pretty much.
It's like being told a joke in a language you dont speak. You pick up bits of it, and you can spot the punchline, but you mostly haven't a clue what's going on

EBI are bringing in open handed strikes as far as I know? Not sure but that might make it a bit more appealing to MMA fans.

Chael is also bringing a bit of spotlight by allowing banned UFC fighters to compete, im sure a lot of Jones fans tuned in for his match with Hendo.

I suppose as more people take up BJJ it will get more of an audience, haven't seen any numbers lately but I'm sure participation is rising all the time.

Lukker-

Django99 wrote: »

EBI are bringing in open handed strikes as far as I know? Not sure but that might make it a bit more appealing to MMA fans.

That's combat Jiu Jitsu, EBI already ran a tournament for it at EBI 11. He's still gonna do normal BJJ fights with the EBI ruleset, he just wants to see if he can BJJ in a way that is more helpful for MMA.

[Deleted User]

Mellor wrote: »

To be fair, he's a 4 time world champion (2014 Brown x 4)
People knew who is was long before long before he was "McGregor's Sparring partner".

To be fair MMA fights start on the feet and this isn't the BJJ forum :pac:

Dannis is going around trying to talk and act like Conor when he is 0 and 0 in MMA. He should shut up, go win a few fights and then if he is any goood he can start acting like talking, him trying to be like Conor is embarrassing though.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be fair MMA fights start on the feet and this isn't the BJJ forum :pac:

Dannis is going around trying to talk and act like Conor when he is 0 and 0 in MMA. He should shut up, go win a few fights and then if he is any goood he can start acting like talking, him trying to be like Conor is embarrassing though.

I'm not going to try and defend him seeing as I'm not a fan of his either, but to be fair I'm sure if Conor had an audience when he was 0-0 he would have been acting the same way. Look at his posts on this forum, even when he was only on the local circuit he talked himself up a lot.

Danis is going into Bellator with a no lose situation, because they will give him easy fights. But we'll still see him being brash and outspoken after every win just like Gallagher. If that can get him more sponsors and more money and more limelight, then it's hard to blame him.

We only have to look at the likes of Duffy/Maia/Mighty Mouse to see what being humble gets you. In MMA, not very much, at least in terms of payment anyway.

Lukker- wrote: »

That's combat Jiu Jitsu, EBI already ran a tournament for it at EBI 11. He's still gonna do normal BJJ fights with the EBI ruleset, he just wants to see if he can BJJ in a way that is more helpful for MMA.

Ah right, must look that up thought it was only a new thing he was starting.

kwestfan08

I see the fantastic Jack Slack has a book out now about Conor McGregor. IMO he is one of the best guys to breakdown fights and his weekly podcast is always top notch. I'll be picking this up straight away next time I'm in easons.

https://www.facebook.com/jack.s.mma/posts/970662829734507

Dillon's 'schtick' comes across worse because of his American accent but other than Gunni, Makwan and Artem (pattern!) the whole lot of them in SBG are trying to be more like Conor. It's a bit harsh to single Dillon out when you've got the likes of Curtis, Gallagher and the rest of them being Conor 2.0. In the case of Gallagher it's blatantly obvious..

The reality is people always mimic those that are successful in their sport or career or even their social circle.

Monica Seles was one of the first true grunters in tennis and on the back of her winning 5 of the 8 Grand Slams 1991/1992 it set off a trend of women shrieking when hitting the ball that has continued to this day. Ditto Rafa Nadal, in some ways. What Seles and Nadal had in common is they were beating the non-grunting number 1's - Stefi Graf and Roger Federer.

So the roster looked at that and thought hmm maybe I need to start shrieking to beat the top players.

For years, the goal of the American boxer was to be like Tyson or Sugar Ray-Leonard or Joe Frazier - exciting fighters with power in their hands who wore snazzy clothes! Then Floyd came along with his 'Money' gimmick, flashy cars and slick defensive boxing and everyone tried to copy that - Adrian Broner being a prime example.

Peers looking at Floyd and thinking hmmm maybe I need fast cars and a 'don't-get-hit' style as opposed to swanky clothes and aggressive heavy hands.

People are always looking for the missing ingredient to achieve the success others have had and the simplest thing the human brain understands is to try copy what made someone else successful. Which right now, means being more like Conor - loud, brash, cocky.

TL;DR - Dillon seems a decent fella. He's young and impressionable and Conor is a huge personality. Sometimes ya can't help but to be influenced by a strong personality in your group. As long as he remembers he's actually not Conor when it comes to fighting...... he'll be fine. Even if Bellator hand him a total tomato-can, he should look to drag it to the mat and show how good he is. If he goes in thinking he's Conor & looks to stand and trade...... it'll go south fast.

Most of the younger fighters in SBG could do with listening to that advice too - act like Conor all you want but remember you ain't Conor and the only reason his personality is popular is because he's a world class fighter who backs it up.

CatFromHue

wonderfullife wrote: »

Then Floyd came along with his 'Money' gimmick, flashy cars

It's not just some boxers who copy that

:pac:

EagererBeaver

wonderfullife wrote: »

For years, the goal of the American boxer was to be like Tyson or Sugar Ray-Leonard or Joe Frazier - exciting fighters with power in their hands who wore snazzy clothes! Then Floyd came along with his 'Money' gimmick, flashy cars and slick defensive boxing and everyone tried to copy that - Adrian Broner being a prime example.

This bit is a load of balls to be honest. For years, the goal of all fighters was to make the most money they could possible whatever way they could. Not to be fast or flashy or powerful. Simply to win and make money. This is still the case. They are prize fighters. Tyson, Leonard and Frazier were all vastly different fighters. They could just make money by being stars at a time when boxing sold easily. Floyd’s gimmick is nothing new - he's simply borrowed it from all his old hip hop friends. Money, cash, hos has been a central theme in hip hop for decades. His gimmick doesn't make him the money. Rather his money allowed him to create the gimmick and in turn demand more money.

Other than Broner, nobody in boxing has remotely tried to copy that gimmick to the level of Floyd. Banging away about all your money on Instagram doesn't mean anything if you don't have the resume under your belt to actually make your claims believable and not expect people to laugh you out of it. Floyd and McGregor have it. Danis, Gallagher, Broner etc don't.

You're too easy on them Wonder, they are absolute morons living a lie you have lads on their team one look at their social media you'd think they are rolling in dough the chaps are living in their ma's box rooms while posting pictures of Gucci runners and think they are ballers, Danis is no different this isnt an act they are putting on they are genuinely that delusional, there is good lads like Gunni Richie Smullen Paddy Holohan I support that has hailed from there with none of this **** talking or McGregor acting.

Deleted User wrote: »

To be fair MMA fights start on the feet and this isn't the BJJ forum :pac:

Sure, it's an MMA forum, but you are talking about a BJJ fighter.

The above makes as much sense as saying;
"Floyd needs to stop going on like a champ, he's 0-0 on the MMA forums"

The fact is ****-talk sells. We can't really complain about that, because we're the ones buying it. Dillion would be banging on like that regardless of a move to MMA.

Django99 wrote: »

Ah right, must look that up thought it was only a new thing he was starting.

He did it a few years ago, but it fizzled out. He re-introduced it as a 4 man tourney at EBI 11 - last week. It's on fight pass.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRSKIg7gSDt/

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Floyd’s gimmick is nothing new - he's simply borrowed it from all his old hip hop friends. Money, cash, hos has been a central theme in hip hop for decades. His gimmick doesn't make him the money. Rather his money allowed him to create the gimmick and in turn demand more money.

Other than Broner, nobody in boxing has remotely tried to copy that gimmick to the level of Floyd.

Good points.

I just meant there were a lot more copycats emerging after he embraced the Money gimmick as opposed to the Pretty Boy persona - but that might be me fitting my argument around a coincidence.

I remember when Becks first bleached his hair in the 90's it set off a whole trend of other footballers doing the same. I think successful people do influence copycats in their sport. Same with Ronaldo's free kick, that technique is copied everywhere now and many have gone away from the curler.

Gamebred wrote: »

You're too easy on them Wonder, they are absolute morons living a lie you have lads on their team one look at their social media you'd think they are rolling in dough the chaps are living in their ma's box rooms while posting pictures of Gucci runners and think they are ballers,

About 6 years ago there was a study in University of California that said humans tend to subconsciously imitate the accents and mannerisms of people they're with or influenced by in an effort to connect to them. A good (or bad!) example of that is Joey Barton's weird French accent or Steve McLaren's equally weird Dutch accent when both were speaking English.

I've done it myself in the past. Being down in a Cork pub for the night and I could almost feel myself saying some of the words with a Cork twang and ya have to pull yourself together fast.

Some of their social media is embarrassing - all about "loyalty" and "hard work" and "fruits of my labour" (All Conor rip-offs) - and that's all great if they're a 31 year-old brown-belt with a 13-1 record or are a champion in a promotion! But it's a bit ridiculous when some of them are 3-2 as a pro with blue belts in BJJ and they post a long-winded 'I will overcome adversity' spiel after a decision-defeat on a Micky Mouse card that nobody watched.

Just wish they'd cut that stuff out. Conor is a freak talent with freak confidence. Not sure how it helps a donkey to believe they are a thoroughbred racehorse. I'd much prefer the donkey to know what his skills are and to maximize them.

Subcomandante Marcos

Gamebred wrote: »

You're too easy on them Wonder, they are absolute morons living a lie you have lads on their team one look at their social media you'd think they are rolling in dough the chaps are living in their ma's box rooms while posting pictures of Gucci runners and think they are ballers, Danis is no different this isnt an act they are putting on they are genuinely that delusional, there is good lads like Gunni Richie Smullen Paddy Holohan I support that has hailed from there with none of this **** talking or McGregor acting.

CC is super guilty of this, on the stretcher coaching MT part-time and with not a single pro mma fight under his belt acting like he's balls deep in cash. He's not the only one though. Conor throwing then hand me down freebies from sponsors and events is turning them into his minions.

Also think it's a fairly important 5 or 6 weeks for Coach Kav. Din Thomas took a few shots at him at the Awards speech and the doubts over his coaching ability in the community are still there. I can't stand Din so I hope John shuts him up.

On paper both Gunni and Makwan should get the job done this weekend. If they don't, however, then the Artem-Cub fight takes center stage and Cub is the clear favourite in that.

A 0-3 run over the course of these fights would raise questions. There's a lot of people out there who think SBG are not very good when you remove Conor from the discussion.

At some point 'Win or Learn' becomes redundant if fighters keep losing then they're clearly not learning. It's going to take more than James Gallagher defeating 3 puddings to convince people John is on the Firas and Javier Mendez level.

I hope it goes well.

scudzilla

wonderfullife wrote: »

There's a lot of people out there who think SBG are not very good when you remove Conor from the discussion.

.

First time i've really thought of it from that view, yeah, suppose that's pretty much spot on

Gunni will strangle Jouban with ease once he doesnt brawl out of character, Makwan is a long time off I rate Allen can see it being close,

I dont think Kavanagh will ever have to answer any critics like Din Thomas I think hes lucky he found Conor but Conor equally lucky he found John, He's not a world class striking coach but its general stuff that made him and Conor a great combination, its weird he never made Conor a great grappler either but got him to a level in he could use his great striking without worrying about better grapplers, I like his ideas on training without damaging hardware ect,

Harsh to compare anyone in the gym with Conors success tbf, he is once in a lifetime (something the young lads dont get) he's got limiited fighters like Pendred and Daly to win multiple fights in the UFC from complete scratch, ATT and similar have young people with serious pedigrees in wrestling usually or something else.

scudzilla wrote: »

First time i've really thought of it from that view, yeah, suppose that's pretty much spot on

Well in early 2015 John was asked in an interview will there be more SBG fighters in the UFC (specifically) and his reply was:

"That's a given, you know that, come on!". He indicated there'd be more being signed in 2015.

2 years have passed since that interview and only 3 people have been signed - Artem, Charlie Ward and John Phillips. On top of that, 3 have retired (Cathal, Ais, Paddy). If we're being totally blunt which 3 would you rather have?

Conor's achievements grab the headlines but you'd have to say beyond that, the team have not progressed in the way he envisaged - yet! Still time.

wonderfullife wrote: »

Well in early 2015 John was asked in an interview will there be more SBG fighters in the UFC (specifically) and his reply was:

"That's a given, you know that, come on!". He indicated there'd be more being signed in 2015.

2 years have passed since that interview and only 3 people have been signed - Artem, Charlie Ward and John Phillips. On top of that, 3 have retired (Cathal, Ais, Paddy). If we're being totally blunt which 3 would you rather have?

Conor's achievements grab the headlines but you'd have to say beyond that, the team have not progressed in the way he envisaged - yet! Still time.

Does Charlie actually have a contract or was that just a one off fight? I'd be surprised to see him in the UFC again anyway.

Personally I wouldn't really be expecting SBG to be doing any better than they are though, Ireland doesn't have a big population, and the dominant combat sport is boxing, which up until recently overshadowed MMA big time in terms of attracting money/fame/success. Because of that, you wouldn't have seen many boxers at all change to MMA.

There's no wrestling as such in Ireland either, and that's the base that most guys
come from. Even kickboxing, Muay Thai and judo, which are all niche sports in Ireland, sees much more people change to MMA because it's more lucrative at the pro level.

Obviously at this point there are more people starting out doing all of the disciplines and training MMA from the word go. But we'll have to wait a few years to see any of them in the UFC.

For a country like Ireland to have SBG and team Ryano providing the UFC with numerous fighters over the last few years is impressive in my opinion. I'd go as far to say as both teams have been over achieving.

On the guys in SBG mimicking McGregor, well as annoying as it is it doesn't surprise me at all. As said people always try to mimic successful people in all walks of life or even as wonderfulife has said, just to fit in with their surroundings.

That side of McGregor is the worst part to try and copy though. Gallagher is setting himself up for a big fall when he eventually loses. The backlash will be big. Maybe it's all an act, but when someone thinks they're invincible, and they end up losing, it can wreak havoc mentally. Some fighters never recover from a bad loss. Rouses being a prime example.

If they want to copy McGregor, it's the dedication and focus when it actually comes to fighting and training that will benefit them (or anyone). Trying to copy his lifestyle or his personality isn't going to end well.

Gamebred wrote: »

Harsh to compare anyone in the gym with Conors success tbf, he is once in a lifetime (something the young lads dont get) he's got limiited fighters like Pendred and Daly to win multiple fights in the UFC from complete scratch, ATT and similar have young people with serious pedigrees in wrestling usually or something else.

I agree with all of that.

But when you write a book on a Coaching Philosophy you really need to be able to produce evidence of its success. He's mentioned many times since late 2014 that the next crop of fighters will be even better than the previous crop.

There's no evidence for that just yet. Since that Indo Interview, in the UFC: Gunni is 2-2 . Artem is 2-2. Charlie is 0-1. Makwan is 1-0. Cathal went 2-2. Paddy went 2-2. Ais went 1-1.

That adds up to 10-10 record in 2 years which is poor whichever way you spin it. They are not inspiring numbers for a next 'wave' of fighters and it's sort of masked by Conor going 5-1 and winning 2 World Titles.

Currently the level of sparring is below the level they face in competition and that's just an undisputed fact. Gunni sparred a lot with Luka Jelcic in this camp and Luka is a good fighter I like a lot but Alan Jouban has been sparring with Lyoto Machida and Sean Strickland.

I'm not questioning his Coaching Abilities as such but I am thinking there will need to be some changes if his goal is to reach the next level as a team.

wonderfullife wrote: »

Also think it's a fairly important 5 or 6 weeks for Coach Kav. Din Thomas took a few shots at him at the Awards speech and the doubts over his coaching ability in the community are still there. I can't stand Din so I hope John shuts him up.

Meh, The best fighters make their coaches look good. Din should know that.
Had Nunes walked into Blackzillians rather than ATT, he wouldn't have been nominated.

wonderfullife wrote: »

2 years have passed since that interview and only 3 people have been signed - Artem, Charlie Ward and John Phillips. On top of that, 3 have retired (Cathal, Ais, Paddy). If we're being totally blunt which 3 would you rather have?

Two of them retired on medical grounds. A bit disingenuous.

Also, I think you are setting the bar very high.
A typical gym has no fighters in the UFC. In Ireland, and in the USA.
Sure the big gyms like ATT, Blackzillions, Tristar have large stables of fighters. But most come to them as huge prospects, or already signed like Joe Duffy.

Guys going from grassroots to the UFC under one coach is not the norm. While obviously the coach is directly responsible for part of that. It still requires that somebody with a gift walks in their door, which is largely out of their hands.