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Official Conor McGregor thread (part 3) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

Axwell

The last thread was nearing the 10k post limit so here's part 3.

The same rules as the last thread apply here. People seem to have strong opinions either way when it comes to McGregor and threads here tend to get a bit heated from time to time. Please keep it civil and discuss all things Conor in a mature way.

Any name-calling, trolling, baiting, or being a general ass-hat will earn you a ban from the thread and possibly the forum.
If you have an issue with a post, please use the report post function.

Any off topic posts will be deleted.
Any "Do you even train Bro?" or "I'm an mma fan longer than you" type posts are not permitted either. They only make you look like a fool and as a result, everyone hates you. Yes everyone.

**Upate with Mayweather vs McGregor announced**

Lads consider this the one and only warning - big fight with a lot of hype around it. It brings new fans to the forum as well as the regulars so try and get along. Any trolling or nonsense and people will find themselves on a break from the forum and that applies to everyone.

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martyos121

Gamebred wrote: »

Funny considering Conor was still on welfare when he was signed to the UFC, 20 going on 12 is Gallagher.

Is that how many brain cells he has? :pac:

Gamebred

Funny considering Conor was still on welfare when he was signed to the UFC, 20 going on 12 is Gallagher.

jcd5971

Gamebred wrote:

Ah gallagher put up a post ''before you judge my skills remember I pay your social welfare'', cannot wait till his head is caved in.

fecking bellend, it will be glorious to see him get knocked out and end up back on the dole queue he's single handedly proper up

EagererBeaver

I know they think of themselves as part of a team but the reality is that they're not. No amount of training with McGregor is going to turn every Joe from Phibsborough walking in off the street into a UFC champion. It's simply not fair to judge the Kavanagh on that basis (and your know by now i don't have much time for any of them). The SBGi name and rep, realistically, rises and falls with McGregor's fortunes. The sheer weight of numbers in terms of catchment will always weigh against them.

wonderfullife

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Too much thinking here about the performance of the "team" in my book. Regardless of what people call it, it's a gym. It's not a team sports. They might be friends, sparring partners, coaches or pupils but one thing they are not is teammates.

Well, yeah that's obviously correct but globally most fighters do consider themselves part of a team and Coaches, Journalists and Fans all assess them as a team. Nobody gives a monkeys if ATT have a good record for gym members losing weight.... they judge them as a fight team. There's a majority of fighters out there who flat out refuse to fight a team-mate in their own weight class regardless of money.

EagererBeaver

wonderfullife wrote: »

My point is there's a big danger that Conor's achievements skew the evidence for how the team is progressing and if you take an holistic view of the records on the fight-team, it's been a ropey few years in the Pro Ranks at the elite level (UFC, Bellator, WSOF, Invicta etc).

Too much thinking here about the performance of the "team" in my book. Regardless of what people call it, it's a gym. It's not a team sports. They might be friends, sparring partners, coaches or pupils but one thing they are not is teammates.

ASOT

Gamebred wrote: »

Ah gallagher put up a post ''before you judge my skills remember I pay your social welfare'', cannot wait till his head is caved in.

Hahahahahahahhaha what a gob****e.

wonderfullife

BOHtox wrote: »

Maybe he doesn't believe it himself. If you were an average fighter in SBG would you rather Kavanagh tell you "the world is your oyster, you can make it big. Keep following your dream" or would you rather him say "You're extremely average, very limited, not athletic enough to make it to the highest level" etc. He's obviously gonna say the former. He uses the same approach when talking to the media.

Even fans of a football club would not be impressed if a manager said "these are better than us, we're never gonna win". You play to your strengths, you keep the belief and you never know you might get the win. Stephen Kenny has that Dundalk team stepping on to the pitch thinking they're invincible. Similarly, Ranieri last year at Leicester. Did you think there was a team they feared playing?

Of course Kavanagh is going to have the attitude he does and I bet he doesn't give two shíts when anyone tries to put him or his team down.

Stoke away in winter. Always Stoke away :pac: (Kidding, stupid cliche).

Everything you said above is perfectly fair and reasonable - to an extent.

I wasn't trying to put John down, my overall point is (besides Conor) the team has regressed and gone backwards since he made bold statements in 2015 and it might come to a head soon if results go against Gunni, Makwan and Artem. When I say come to a head I mean he might want to re-evaluate training partners (not methods).

Remember, he confidently made 3 predictions in Dec 2015:

1. Conor will beat Aldo inside 2 rounds (Tick)
2. Gunni will prove he's the "Best MMA Grappler of ALL TIME (by outclassing Maia on top)" (ummm)
3. Gunni will be the 2nd SBG UFC World Champion by the end of 2016 (eeek).

In fact, if you look back at a lot of the predictions he has made over the years, there's one constant: Everything he claimed about Conor came to fruition. Everything he said about everyone else, didn't (yet).

My point is there's a big danger that Conor's achievements skew the evidence for how the team is progressing and if you take an holistic view of the records on the fight-team, it's been a ropey few years in the Pro Ranks at the elite level (UFC, Bellator, WSOF, Invicta etc).

I would imagine if he wants to evolve in his Coaching Career and reach the next level of producing multiple champions, then the quality of training partners is the glaringly obvious weakness SBG have compared to other elite teams.

He's clearly an extremely talented Coach but in my opinion he really needs Gunni, Makwan and Artem - someone other than Conor - to step up and do the business for him at an elite level.

EDIT: I really want him to succeed and do well. It's an inspirational journey what he has done for Martial Arts in Ireland and I want him to keep succeeding.

wonderfullife

Gamebred wrote: »

Ah gallagher put up a post ''before you judge my skills remember I pay your social welfare'', cannot wait till his head is caved in.

This coming from a man who jacked in school at 15 and relied on handouts from his parents and charity from John in letting him stay rent free in his apartment.

BOHtox

wonderfullife wrote: »

Fair (on the medical retirements) but whichever way you spin it the team went from Cathal, Paddy and Ais to Artem, Charlie and John Phillips as their UFC reps below Conor. That's not a step-up in my book.

As for setting the bar high - I'm literally just going on what John has said in interviews. Maybe he sets the bar too high himself. He said many times in late 2014 and early 2015 that there's a new wave of UFC fighters coming and he expects to train multiple UFC champions in the next decade (i.e. Conor and someone else).

I'm not having a pop at him (far from it) and I agree with what you're saying.

BUT - instead of saying it's down to pure luck who walks in the door, how about changing that? Link up with London Shootfighters and get Marcin Held, Marvin Vettori and Michael Venom Page in for a month and then send Gallagher, Artem and Makwan over there for a month. Or more regular link-ups with SBG Manchester and get Saul and Matt Inman over.

There are geographical and population constraints over what SBG Ireland can realistically do - but I see no reason they couldn't cultivate strong partnerships with UK based gyms an hour flight away to increase the quality of sparring.

Gunni will likely maul Jouban this weekend but there can be no disputing the fact Jouban had the much higher quality of sparring partners and, in the long run, that's really going to inhibit SBG's progress. I'd take Machida and Strickland every day of the week over Luka and Charlie.

Maybe he doesn't believe it himself. If you were an average fighter in SBG would you rather Kavanagh tell you "the world is your oyster, you can make it big. Keep following your dream" or would you rather him say "You're extremely average, very limited, not athletic enough to make it to the highest level" etc. He's obviously gonna say the former. He uses the same approach when talking to the media.

Even fans of a football club would not be impressed if a manager said "these are better than us, we're never gonna win". You play to your strengths, you keep the belief and you never know you might get the win. Stephen Kenny has that Dundalk team stepping on to the pitch thinking they're invincible. Similarly, Ranieri last year at Leicester. Did you think there was a team they feared playing?

Of course Kavanagh is going to have the attitude he does and I bet he doesn't give two shíts when anyone tries to put him or his team down.

0byme75341jo28

What kind of idiotic comment is that, embarrassing..

callaway92

What a complete bellend - He's after deleting it from Twitter too anyway. somebody must've told him to cop on

AlmightyCushion

Gamebred wrote: »

Ah gallagher put up a post ''before you judge my skills remember I pay your social welfare'', cannot wait till his head is caved in.

He really doesn't do himself any favours.

Gamebred

Ah gallagher put up a post ''before you judge my skills remember I pay your social welfare'', cannot wait till his head is caved in.

Subcomandante Marcos

Gamebred wrote: »

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRqkYJCDrBa/

This guy, smh.

Not working ðŸ˜”

Gamebred

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRqkYJCDrBa/

This guy, smh.

Mellor

wonderfullife wrote: »

Fair (on the medical retirements) but whichever way you spin it the team went from Cathal, Paddy and Ais to Artem, Charlie and John Phillips as their UFC reps below Conor. That's not a step-up in my book.

Not a step up at all. Paddy was a big loss imo, and Ais was consistently ranked in the top 15 of the division (albeit a shallow one).
But SBG could of realistically went from 4 to 1. Most small gyms do. Corret me if I'm wrong, but at one point there were 4 teams in Ireland with fighters signed to the UFC. How many are there now?

As for setting the bar high - I'm literally just going on what John has said in interviews. Maybe he sets the bar too high himself. He said many times in late 2014 and early 2015 that there's a new wave of UFC fighters coming and he expects to train multiple UFC champions in the next decade (i.e. Conor and someone else).

If somebody aiming to coach UFC level athlete isn't thinking like that, and aiming for that, then he (or she) should go back to coaching kids jiu jitsu.

Setting targets and goals is a crucial part of development, sports or otherwise. But I'd never see failing to hit a goal as a negative. In fact, if you hit your target too easily, you weren't aiming high enough, imo.

BUT - instead of saying it's down to pure luck who walks in the door, how about changing that? Link up with London Shootfighters and get Marcin Held, Marvin Vettori and Michael Venom Page in for a month and then send Gallagher, Artem and Makwan over there for a month. Or more regular link-ups with SBG Manchester and get Saul and Matt Inman over.

There are geographical and population constraints over what SBG Ireland can realistically do - but I see no reason they couldn't cultivate strong partnerships with UK based gyms an hour flight away to increase the quality of sparring.

That could work for fighters signed to the big leagues, as soon as you sign for the UFC/Bellator/WSOF you are swimming in a global pool.
But regional guys trying to get into the big time, just don't have that luxury. SBG Ireland and SBG Manchester are both under Matt Thornton, but there has been SBGi vrs SBGm fights in the past, simply because the pool is small.

How many times did somebody from Team Ryano fought somebody from SBG in the early days?

Gunni will likely maul Jouban this weekend but there can be no disputing the fact Jouban had the much higher quality of sparring partners and, in the long run, that's really going to inhibit SBG's progress. I'd take Machida and Strickland every day of the week over Luka and Charlie.

Who are these higher quality sparring partners Jouban had? Honest question, I've seen very little of his training.
He's with Blackhouse, but he's not down in Rio training with Silva and Jacare.
I seen a short his UFC training camp video, I didn'r recognaise anyone in Black house with him. He called in to a different gym for some karate with a Lyoto impersonator. :pac:
He's probably got solid rolling partners at 10thPlanet HQ

Pretty sure Gunni has been in Mjolnir for his camp.

wonderfullife

Mellor wrote: »

Two of them retired on medical grounds. A bit disingenuous.

Also, I think you are setting the bar very high.
A typical gym has no fighters in the UFC. In Ireland, and in the USA.
Sure the big gyms like ATT, Blackzillions, Tristar have large stables of fighters. But most come to them as huge prospects, or already signed like Joe Duffy.

Guys going from grassroots to the UFC under one coach is not the norm. While obviously the coach is directly responsible for part of that. It still requires that somebody with a gift walks in their door, which is largely out of their hands.

Fair (on the medical retirements) but whichever way you spin it the team went from Cathal, Paddy and Ais to Artem, Charlie and John Phillips as their UFC reps below Conor. That's not a step-up in my book.

As for setting the bar high - I'm literally just going on what John has said in interviews. Maybe he sets the bar too high himself. He said many times in late 2014 and early 2015 that there's a new wave of UFC fighters coming and he expects to train multiple UFC champions in the next decade (i.e. Conor and someone else).

I'm not having a pop at him (far from it) and I agree with what you're saying.

BUT - instead of saying it's down to pure luck who walks in the door, how about changing that? Link up with London Shootfighters and get Marcin Held, Marvin Vettori and Michael Venom Page in for a month and then send Gallagher, Artem and Makwan over there for a month. Or more regular link-ups with SBG Manchester and get Saul and Matt Inman over.

There are geographical and population constraints over what SBG Ireland can realistically do - but I see no reason they couldn't cultivate strong partnerships with UK based gyms an hour flight away to increase the quality of sparring.

Gunni will likely maul Jouban this weekend but there can be no disputing the fact Jouban had the much higher quality of sparring partners and, in the long run, that's really going to inhibit SBG's progress. I'd take Machida and Strickland every day of the week over Luka and Charlie.

Mellor

wonderfullife wrote: »

Also think it's a fairly important 5 or 6 weeks for Coach Kav. Din Thomas took a few shots at him at the Awards speech and the doubts over his coaching ability in the community are still there. I can't stand Din so I hope John shuts him up.

Meh, The best fighters make their coaches look good. Din should know that.
Had Nunes walked into Blackzillians rather than ATT, he wouldn't have been nominated.

wonderfullife wrote: »

2 years have passed since that interview and only 3 people have been signed - Artem, Charlie Ward and John Phillips. On top of that, 3 have retired (Cathal, Ais, Paddy). If we're being totally blunt which 3 would you rather have?

Two of them retired on medical grounds. A bit disingenuous.

Also, I think you are setting the bar very high.
A typical gym has no fighters in the UFC. In Ireland, and in the USA.
Sure the big gyms like ATT, Blackzillions, Tristar have large stables of fighters. But most come to them as huge prospects, or already signed like Joe Duffy.

Guys going from grassroots to the UFC under one coach is not the norm. While obviously the coach is directly responsible for part of that. It still requires that somebody with a gift walks in their door, which is largely out of their hands.

wonderfullife

Gamebred wrote: »

Harsh to compare anyone in the gym with Conors success tbf, he is once in a lifetime (something the young lads dont get) he's got limiited fighters like Pendred and Daly to win multiple fights in the UFC from complete scratch, ATT and similar have young people with serious pedigrees in wrestling usually or something else.

I agree with all of that.

But when you write a book on a Coaching Philosophy you really need to be able to produce evidence of its success. He's mentioned many times since late 2014 that the next crop of fighters will be even better than the previous crop.

There's no evidence for that just yet. Since that Indo Interview, in the UFC: Gunni is 2-2 . Artem is 2-2. Charlie is 0-1. Makwan is 1-0. Cathal went 2-2. Paddy went 2-2. Ais went 1-1.

That adds up to 10-10 record in 2 years which is poor whichever way you spin it. They are not inspiring numbers for a next 'wave' of fighters and it's sort of masked by Conor going 5-1 and winning 2 World Titles.

Currently the level of sparring is below the level they face in competition and that's just an undisputed fact. Gunni sparred a lot with Luka Jelcic in this camp and Luka is a good fighter I like a lot but Alan Jouban has been sparring with Lyoto Machida and Sean Strickland.

I'm not questioning his Coaching Abilities as such but I am thinking there will need to be some changes if his goal is to reach the next level as a team.

Django99

wonderfullife wrote: »

Well in early 2015 John was asked in an interview will there be more SBG fighters in the UFC (specifically) and his reply was:

"That's a given, you know that, come on!". He indicated there'd be more being signed in 2015.

2 years have passed since that interview and only 3 people have been signed - Artem, Charlie Ward and John Phillips. On top of that, 3 have retired (Cathal, Ais, Paddy). If we're being totally blunt which 3 would you rather have?

Conor's achievements grab the headlines but you'd have to say beyond that, the team have not progressed in the way he envisaged - yet! Still time.

Does Charlie actually have a contract or was that just a one off fight? I'd be surprised to see him in the UFC again anyway.

Personally I wouldn't really be expecting SBG to be doing any better than they are though, Ireland doesn't have a big population, and the dominant combat sport is boxing, which up until recently overshadowed MMA big time in terms of attracting money/fame/success. Because of that, you wouldn't have seen many boxers at all change to MMA.

There's no wrestling as such in Ireland either, and that's the base that most guys
come from. Even kickboxing, Muay Thai and judo, which are all niche sports in Ireland, sees much more people change to MMA because it's more lucrative at the pro level.

Obviously at this point there are more people starting out doing all of the disciplines and training MMA from the word go. But we'll have to wait a few years to see any of them in the UFC.

For a country like Ireland to have SBG and team Ryano providing the UFC with numerous fighters over the last few years is impressive in my opinion. I'd go as far to say as both teams have been over achieving.

On the guys in SBG mimicking McGregor, well as annoying as it is it doesn't surprise me at all. As said people always try to mimic successful people in all walks of life or even as wonderfulife has said, just to fit in with their surroundings.

That side of McGregor is the worst part to try and copy though. Gallagher is setting himself up for a big fall when he eventually loses. The backlash will be big. Maybe it's all an act, but when someone thinks they're invincible, and they end up losing, it can wreak havoc mentally. Some fighters never recover from a bad loss. Rouses being a prime example.

If they want to copy McGregor, it's the dedication and focus when it actually comes to fighting and training that will benefit them (or anyone). Trying to copy his lifestyle or his personality isn't going to end well.

wonderfullife

scudzilla wrote: »

First time i've really thought of it from that view, yeah, suppose that's pretty much spot on

Well in early 2015 John was asked in an interview will there be more SBG fighters in the UFC (specifically) and his reply was:

"That's a given, you know that, come on!". He indicated there'd be more being signed in 2015.

2 years have passed since that interview and only 3 people have been signed - Artem, Charlie Ward and John Phillips. On top of that, 3 have retired (Cathal, Ais, Paddy). If we're being totally blunt which 3 would you rather have?

Conor's achievements grab the headlines but you'd have to say beyond that, the team have not progressed in the way he envisaged - yet! Still time.

Gamebred

Gunni will strangle Jouban with ease once he doesnt brawl out of character, Makwan is a long time off I rate Allen can see it being close,

I dont think Kavanagh will ever have to answer any critics like Din Thomas I think hes lucky he found Conor but Conor equally lucky he found John, He's not a world class striking coach but its general stuff that made him and Conor a great combination, its weird he never made Conor a great grappler either but got him to a level in he could use his great striking without worrying about better grapplers, I like his ideas on training without damaging hardware ect,

Harsh to compare anyone in the gym with Conors success tbf, he is once in a lifetime (something the young lads dont get) he's got limiited fighters like Pendred and Daly to win multiple fights in the UFC from complete scratch, ATT and similar have young people with serious pedigrees in wrestling usually or something else.

scudzilla

wonderfullife wrote: »

There's a lot of people out there who think SBG are not very good when you remove Conor from the discussion.

.

First time i've really thought of it from that view, yeah, suppose that's pretty much spot on

wonderfullife

Also think it's a fairly important 5 or 6 weeks for Coach Kav. Din Thomas took a few shots at him at the Awards speech and the doubts over his coaching ability in the community are still there. I can't stand Din so I hope John shuts him up.

On paper both Gunni and Makwan should get the job done this weekend. If they don't, however, then the Artem-Cub fight takes center stage and Cub is the clear favourite in that.

A 0-3 run over the course of these fights would raise questions. There's a lot of people out there who think SBG are not very good when you remove Conor from the discussion.

At some point 'Win or Learn' becomes redundant if fighters keep losing then they're clearly not learning. It's going to take more than James Gallagher defeating 3 puddings to convince people John is on the Firas and Javier Mendez level.

I hope it goes well.

Subcomandante Marcos

Gamebred wrote: »

You're too easy on them Wonder, they are absolute morons living a lie you have lads on their team one look at their social media you'd think they are rolling in dough the chaps are living in their ma's box rooms while posting pictures of Gucci runners and think they are ballers, Danis is no different this isnt an act they are putting on they are genuinely that delusional, there is good lads like Gunni Richie Smullen Paddy Holohan I support that has hailed from there with none of this **** talking or McGregor acting.

CC is super guilty of this, on the stretcher coaching MT part-time and with not a single pro mma fight under his belt acting like he's balls deep in cash. He's not the only one though. Conor throwing then hand me down freebies from sponsors and events is turning them into his minions.

wonderfullife

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Floyd’s gimmick is nothing new - he's simply borrowed it from all his old hip hop friends. Money, cash, hos has been a central theme in hip hop for decades. His gimmick doesn't make him the money. Rather his money allowed him to create the gimmick and in turn demand more money.

Other than Broner, nobody in boxing has remotely tried to copy that gimmick to the level of Floyd.

Good points.

I just meant there were a lot more copycats emerging after he embraced the Money gimmick as opposed to the Pretty Boy persona - but that might be me fitting my argument around a coincidence.

I remember when Becks first bleached his hair in the 90's it set off a whole trend of other footballers doing the same. I think successful people do influence copycats in their sport. Same with Ronaldo's free kick, that technique is copied everywhere now and many have gone away from the curler.

Gamebred wrote: »

You're too easy on them Wonder, they are absolute morons living a lie you have lads on their team one look at their social media you'd think they are rolling in dough the chaps are living in their ma's box rooms while posting pictures of Gucci runners and think they are ballers,

About 6 years ago there was a study in University of California that said humans tend to subconsciously imitate the accents and mannerisms of people they're with or influenced by in an effort to connect to them. A good (or bad!) example of that is Joey Barton's weird French accent or Steve McLaren's equally weird Dutch accent when both were speaking English.

I've done it myself in the past. Being down in a Cork pub for the night and I could almost feel myself saying some of the words with a Cork twang and ya have to pull yourself together fast.

Some of their social media is embarrassing - all about "loyalty" and "hard work" and "fruits of my labour" (All Conor rip-offs) - and that's all great if they're a 31 year-old brown-belt with a 13-1 record or are a champion in a promotion! But it's a bit ridiculous when some of them are 3-2 as a pro with blue belts in BJJ and they post a long-winded 'I will overcome adversity' spiel after a decision-defeat on a Micky Mouse card that nobody watched.

Just wish they'd cut that stuff out. Conor is a freak talent with freak confidence. Not sure how it helps a donkey to believe they are a thoroughbred racehorse. I'd much prefer the donkey to know what his skills are and to maximize them.

Mellor

Deleted User wrote: »

To be fair MMA fights start on the feet and this isn't the BJJ forum :pac:

Sure, it's an MMA forum, but you are talking about a BJJ fighter.

The above makes as much sense as saying;
"Floyd needs to stop going on like a champ, he's 0-0 on the MMA forums"

The fact is ****-talk sells. We can't really complain about that, because we're the ones buying it. Dillion would be banging on like that regardless of a move to MMA.

Django99 wrote: »

Ah right, must look that up thought it was only a new thing he was starting.

He did it a few years ago, but it fizzled out. He re-introduced it as a 4 man tourney at EBI 11 - last week. It's on fight pass.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRSKIg7gSDt/

Gamebred

You're too easy on them Wonder, they are absolute morons living a lie you have lads on their team one look at their social media you'd think they are rolling in dough the chaps are living in their ma's box rooms while posting pictures of Gucci runners and think they are ballers, Danis is no different this isnt an act they are putting on they are genuinely that delusional, there is good lads like Gunni Richie Smullen Paddy Holohan I support that has hailed from there with none of this **** talking or McGregor acting.

EagererBeaver

wonderfullife wrote: »

For years, the goal of the American boxer was to be like Tyson or Sugar Ray-Leonard or Joe Frazier - exciting fighters with power in their hands who wore snazzy clothes! Then Floyd came along with his 'Money' gimmick, flashy cars and slick defensive boxing and everyone tried to copy that - Adrian Broner being a prime example.

This bit is a load of balls to be honest. For years, the goal of all fighters was to make the most money they could possible whatever way they could. Not to be fast or flashy or powerful. Simply to win and make money. This is still the case. They are prize fighters. Tyson, Leonard and Frazier were all vastly different fighters. They could just make money by being stars at a time when boxing sold easily. Floyd’s gimmick is nothing new - he's simply borrowed it from all his old hip hop friends. Money, cash, hos has been a central theme in hip hop for decades. His gimmick doesn't make him the money. Rather his money allowed him to create the gimmick and in turn demand more money.

Other than Broner, nobody in boxing has remotely tried to copy that gimmick to the level of Floyd. Banging away about all your money on Instagram doesn't mean anything if you don't have the resume under your belt to actually make your claims believable and not expect people to laugh you out of it. Floyd and McGregor have it. Danis, Gallagher, Broner etc don't.