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Who owns unused attic space above top floor apartment?

Dublindamo

Hi,

I own a top floor apartment in a small block (12 apartments above 2 retail units). There is a small hatch to the attic space above my apartment. The attic space could be converted as there is good head height up there.
I am tring to find out who owns this space and as I am the only apartment with access can I use it.
The OMC have no records to indicate who owns it. The builder is long since gone (property built in 1994) as it the solicitor that acted for them.
I am not sure where to go to ask. Is there a particular title deeds or plans that I need to consult and if so who should have them?

Any advice on where to find this out would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

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Optimatic

Hi, I know this is an oldish thread but still relevant in many ways. Myself and my partner recently moved into our new home 6 months ago after fully renovating. When we were signing our lease, we were informed that the previous owner's of our particular apartment (both now deceased) were in fact the developers of the block of apartments we live in and that they gave themselves ownership to a very large chunk of attic space (approx 600sq ft out of 1000sq ft), complete with velux windows and deeds highlighting the boundaries of said space. This is something our solicitor said at the time was unusual to see, that he had never come across before but as far as he was concerned was indisputably ours now that we had purchased the property in full.

As I said, there are in fact two modest sized velux windows currently installed (apartment is approx 30 years old), however the roof is a trussed roof which was never converted directly into the livable space it potentially could be.

My question is, after reading about the various inquiries people have made, have any of you had success or learnt any valuable information in regard to converting into the attic space above your apartment?
We think because of our legal standing, that having actual ownership of a substantial amount space within the attic, this would give us a good edge on making this type of conversion succeed. Although, and this seems to be a big one, our management company has told us that they have never granted anyone use in any way, including storage, the attic space and that's even if they have sole access and there is a brick party wall between each apartment's attic space. We're wondering if we apply for planning permission along with having the relative structural and fire certs in place to say the conversion can be completed to all safety standards, would we have a good chance to push this through or is it simply a waste of time since the MC won't get on board? We don't see how we can be denied from using to its best potential and without hindering anyone next door and beyond, a piece of property that is rightfully ours.

Thanks in advance for any info that might us out.

Kings Inns or bust

You're very unlikely to own a freehold on an apartment in Ireland. It's not impossible, 'flying freeholds' are not unknown (love that expression) but usually you own an apartment leasehold. As such generally what the OMC says, goes. Check your lease, or better yet have it checked by a solicitor.

4ensic15

There is usually a clause in apartment leases requiring substantial changes to be approved by the management company. Relatively small changes are caught by this.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/apartment-owner-must-dismantle-wall-division-1.253567
Any conversion of an attic space would be caught by this.

SarahMollie

From what I know, the advice by Paul W is correct.

The development I live in and am a director of has a number of 3 bed duplexes which all have access to attic space. So far the management company allow access for storage, and myself and a few others have fitted Stira type stairs, some basic flooring and lighting just to make access more convenient. The attic spaces are segregated by unit (not one big attic space) but I think this has more to do with fire-stopping between units than an attempt to give everyone their own space.

No one has asked about a possible conversion yet although its possible that will arise in the near future as a number of the units have recently changed hands.

I've seen it done in other developments, but I don't know if that was because attic spaces were never part of the common areas or not.

Paulw

SarahMollie wrote: »

No one has asked about a possible conversion yet although its possible that will arise in the near future as a number of the units have recently changed hands.

I've seen it done in other developments, but I don't know if that was because attic spaces were never part of the common areas or not.

We've had a few requests, all of which we have denied.

With some developments, people do it without permission. This can cause major problems if/when they attempt to sell, and can will definitely cause major issues with any block insurance claims.

For Optimatic: While the space may be yours in your deeds, I wonder if the roof is. The roof may still be common, so you may not have permission to make changes to it, and it's structure. You may have some issues with insurance and the block insurance too. You really need proper legal advice, from a solicitor. You will get plenty of opinions here, which may be useless in the legal arena and may be of no use when discussing your plans with your management company.

riclad

The attic space may be designed for maintenance acess, to fix pipes etc
to run cables through ,
so why bother to buy it.
The Roof may be a common area , to be accessed for maintenance purposes .
Just because you buy an apartment does not mean you own the area above it.
Since the roof is part of the common structure i think you would not be allowed to change it in any way.
eg a private house owner can put in extra insulation or even put in a skylight window .
Unless its mentioned on your deeds i think its safe to assume the attic is a common
area like the car park, owned by the management company ,
they might allow you acess to the attic without giving you ownership rights to the attic space.

he man rugger

Resurrecting an old thread here but just curious if you ever got around to trying to proceed with conversion? If so, what is the rough cost? Is scaffolding required on the outside of the building to get girders into the space to rest the floor on?

Similar situation, bought a top floor apartment and am playing with the idea of trying to convert the attic if possible/legal. Management company have been good to deal with so far. Let me put in an attic hatch to get access to pipes/wiring etc up there.

Lantus

lcwill wrote:

Looked into extending into the attic and I think it could be complicated but doable though the hard bit would be putting any new windows up there. I think you can extend into the airspace above your apartment but not mess with the roof. There are a few stories online of people doing similar things in the US.

You could extend into the airspace as long as everything is connected to the airspace and not any part of the structure. Installing windows, power, water and making a livable space is not permissable. The company could access the space and have it ripped out and put back.

Dublindamo

he man rugger wrote: »

Resurrecting an old thread here but just curious if you ever got around to trying to proceed with conversion? If so, what is the rough cost? Is scaffolding required on the outside of the building to get girders into the space to rest the floor on?

Similar situation, bought a top floor apartment and am playing with the idea of trying to convert the attic if possible/legal. Management company have been good to deal with so far. Let me put in an attic hatch to get access to pipes/wiring etc up there.

Have yet to do anything but will put in attic hatch and have some flooring and lighting Installed so it can be used for additional storage. Won't be trying to have any living space or anything too ambitious so I think I should be ok.