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Child Item

Strike For Repeal?

fatknacker

Anyone gonna? I've the day off anyway but I probably wouldn't have stroked if I hadn't, although I would like everyone to have abortions. Whoops, I mean, choice for abortions.

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Calhoun

CroatoanCat wrote: »

The eighth amendment and 2013 Act to be repealed, and:
Abortion to be permitted:
- In the first trimester, on demand;
- In the second trimester, where: there is a diagnosis of fatal foetal abnormality; the pregnant female is aged 16 or under; or there is a risk to the health or life of the pregnant female from continuing the pregnancy;
Termination of pregnancy via induction of labour in the third trimester, with the delivery of a live infant where possible, to be permitted where:
- There is a risk to the health or life of the pregnant female from continuing the pregnancy; or
- The pregnant female is aged 16 or under.

Item number one of the above is where the referendum will fail, that will be used as a stick to beat the repeal campaign with. See outlaw Pete's post above where to labour party members describe their strategic plan for the morons of Ireland.

If the campaign focuses on the rest of the items it will probably succeed but any attempt to make it into a battle of the sexes i doubt will be looked upon kindly.

Absolam

Calhoun wrote: »

Item number one of the above is where the referendum will fail, that will be used as a stick to beat the repeal campaign with. See outlaw Pete's post above where to labour party members describe their strategic plan for the morons of Ireland.

If the campaign focuses on the rest of the items it will probably succeed but any attempt to make it into a battle of the sexes i doubt will be looked upon kindly.

Agreed; any mention of repeal places abortion on demand firmly in front of the electorate and I don't think there's an appetite for that. Any liberalisation of Ireland's position depends, in my opinion, on a careful amendment of the 8th which will permit 'therapeutic' abortion whilst preserving the right to life. Though I imagine arriving at a phrasing that will pass muster will be a Sisyphusian task.

jameorahiely

ROVER_1912 wrote: »

sorry i don't want to be putting words in your mouth or anything,

but are you saying you feels bad cos ireland is the only nation that gives rights to an unborn child?

Don't feel bad, Germany has the right to life enshrined in their constitution too.

[Deleted User]

ROVER_1912 wrote: »

sorry i don't want to be putting words in your mouth or anything,

but are you saying you feels bad cos ireland is the only nation that gives rights to an unborn child?

No that's not what I'm saying

stefanovich

It's sad watching all these women at the height of their fertility protesting to have the right to abort.

[Deleted User]

secman wrote: »

Just as well that when you were a 6 week old embryo you got a chance to live so.

You will have to explain what that has to do with anything?
That's not an argument

Wibbs

CroatoanCat wrote: »

For these reasons, I am convinced a referendum to repeal the eighth referendum without any indication as to what will replace it will be lost. I'm in my 40s and I feel confident in saying that third trimester abortions will never be tolerated in this State in my lifetime. Indeed, I would even say with some certainty that second-trimester on-demand abortions are unlikely to be tolerated in this State in my lifetime. There simply is no majority support for such a regime.

Great post CC. IMH hits the nail on the head as far as the general population's attitudes.

People will simply not vote to repeal the eighth amendment if they feel there is any chance the Legislature could introduce something like that, now or in the foreseeable future.

That would be my take on it and that thin end of the wedge is in play behind the scenes with a few as OutlawPete's post illustrates. So I'll be voting No for that very reason.

AudreyHepburn

I've said before I am Pro Choice and I will vote to Repeal the 8th, if we get the chance to vote, because I don't believe I have the right to tell another woman what she can and cannot do with her own body.

Have said that I could not in good faith agree to Abortion on Demand - it's a much more complicated and deeper issue than that ideal suggests and I really fear that it could become just another form of contraception if such a system was introduced.

I would also hope that any legislation would include provision for the rights of the Father to be taken in to account - after all it's his child too and he deserves to have his voice heard.

If either of the above two provisions could not be met I honestly think I'd have to rethink my stance.

Gunslinger92

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Have said that I could not in good faith agree to Abortion on Demand - it's a much more complicated and deeper issue than that ideal suggests and I really fear that it could become just another form of contraception if such a system was introduced.

I really can't get my head around this "another form of contraception" argument. You do know that abortions are not exactly pleasant experiences? Do you really, honestly believe that some women would have such an attitude: "ah sure it'll be graaaand I'll go and get an aul abortion, not a bother." Don't be ridiculous

AudreyHepburn

Gunslinger92 wrote: »

I really can't get my head around this "another form of contraception" argument. You do know that abortions are not exactly pleasant experiences? Do you really, honestly believe that some women would have such an attitude: "ah sure it'll be graaaand I'll go and get an aul abortion, not a bother." Don't be ridiculous

I know that and you know that, but I do sometimes feel as if some of those advocating abortion on demand are in fact looking on it as a form of contraception, albeit a very unpleasant one.

I just don't want to end up in a situation where you can simply walk in off the street, demand an abortion and get one with going through a proper well thought out process of talking with say a counselor, doctors etc, getting proper health checks (mentally and physically) and researching other alternatives to abortion etc.

Gunslinger92

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I know that and you know that, but I do sometimes feel as if some of those advocating abortion on demand are in fact looking on it as a form of contraception, albeit a very unpleasant one.

I just don't want to end up in a situation where you can simply walk in off the street, demand an abortion and get one with going through a proper well thought out process of talking with say a counselor, doctors etc, getting proper health checks (mentally and physically) and researching other alternatives to abortion etc.

Yeah that's fair enough!

I don't think you have to worry about it anyway, I also don't see abortion on demand happening in Ireland anytime soon (I'd like to though)

Widdershins

I wouldn't have believed anyone could be so disorganised and hare brained that they could end up using an abortion as their only contraception but I'm having doubts lately.
What Outlaw Pete shared has crystalised my doubts about the campaign in general, it is very serious.

LuckyLloyd

Great post CroatoanCat. I fear the Repeal Campaign are highly unilikely to moderate their position or presentation unfortunately.

Live65a846d0ee

Wibbs wrote: »

Great post CC. IMH hits the nail on the head as far as the general population's attitudes.
That would be my take on it and that thin end of the wedge is in play behind the scenes with a few as OutlawPete's post illustrates. So I'll be voting No for that very reason.

Of course, same as brexit will not happen and Donald Trump will not win. Did you have a look at the not fake polls?

[Deleted User]

Live65a846d0ee wrote: »

The fact that abortion is illegal in this country in this day and age tells everything you need to know. No thanks, I will look at every other successful European country while you abuse your women in this country, absolute abuse as woman are forced to carry a child they don't want. Worst womans right in Europe, religious freaks talking ****e here.

you sound reasonable

[Deleted User]

ROVER_1912 wrote: »

in fairness this should be a womans issue,

therefore woman should vote on it,

and woman should do the termination,

never going to happen in ireland

what the **** are you talking about?

Live65a846d0ee

[Deleted User] wrote: »

what the **** are you talking about?

I think he means generations of brainwashing and indoctrination by religious zealots. Ireland has the highest faith level of any country in Europe. Almost all other countries are completely secular.

The_Kew_Tour

Live65a846d0ee wrote: »

I think he means generations of brainwashing and indoctrination by religious zealots. Ireland has the highest faith level of any country in Europe. Almost all other countries are completely secular.

Poland is high. Loads go to mass here

mahamageehad

jameorahiely wrote: »

Don't feel bad, Germany has the right to life enshrined in their constitution too.

Ah except we also have abortion on demand here.... Abortion on demand in the first trimester with mandatory counseling and later for medical emergencies.

Live65a846d0ee

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Poland is high. Loads go to mass here

And they reintroduced abortion see the correlation?

mahamageehad

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Poland is high. Loads go to mass here

I would think Poland to have the highest percentage of believers. I think Ireland is far from first in Europe. I imagine Italy, Portugal, Croatia and a lot of Eastern Europe would rank higher than Ireland.

Live65a846d0ee

mahamageehad wrote: »

I would think Poland to have the highest percentage of believers. I think Ireland is far from first in Europe. I imagine Italy, Portugal, Croatia and a lot of Eastern Europe would rank higher than Ireland.

Absolutely false.

mahamageehad

stefanovich wrote: »

It's sad watching all these women at the height of their fertility protesting to have the right to abort.

Would you rather only barren women protest??

mahamageehad

Live65a846d0ee wrote: »

Absolutely false.

Says who? This chart, one of the first results on Google, puts Ireland about midway. http://www.europeanvaluesstudy.eu/files/Believing_large.jpg

Idbatterim

Gunslinger92 wrote: »

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Have said that I could not in good faith agree to Abortion on Demand - it's a much more complicated and deeper issue than that ideal suggests and I really fear that it could become just another form of contraception if such a system was introduced.

I really can't get my head around this "another form of contraception" argument. You do know that abortions are not exactly pleasant experiences? Do you really, honestly believe that some women would have such an attitude: "ah sure it'll be graaaand I'll go and get an aul abortion, not a bother." Don't be ridiculous

my mum worked in an abortion clinic in Germany in the seventies and said some of the women used it as another fork of contraception. Disgusting.

Live65a846d0ee

mahamageehad wrote: »

Says who? This chart, one of the first results on Google, puts Ireland about midway. http://www.europeanvaluesstudy.eu/files/Believing_large.jpg

Definitely fake news

mahamageehad

Live65a846d0ee wrote: »

Definitely fake news

Ah yes, the standard alt-right response to info you don't like. In place of, you know, an actual argument.

Wibbs

Live65a846d0ee wrote: »

Ireland has the highest faith level of any country in Europe. Almost all other countries are completely secular.

Maybe in your world, meanwhile back in reality...

And that was over ten years ago. I'd be willing to bet those figures would be more skewed towards secularity today. *Edit* It seems mahamageehad found a better picture and I win the bet. I personally don't know anybody who attends church outside of funerals and weddings. The near complete lack of new priests and nuns coming along should tell you something.

Definitely fake news

:pac: Either a windup merchant or deluded on the subject.

Live65a846d0ee

Idbatterim wrote: »

my mum worked in an abortion clinic in Germany in the seventies and said some of the women used it as another fork of contraception. Disgusting.

Germans don't care what Irish think, they are one of the most successful countries in the WORLD

Live65a846d0ee

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe in your world, meanwhile back in reality...

And that was over ten years ago. I'd be willing to bet those figures would be more skewed towards secularity today. *Edit* It seems mahamageehad found a better picture.

:pac: Either a windup merchant or deluded on the subject.

Ireland is at the upper level look at the percentages. The only countries higher are tiny city states and countries not even in European Union(Turkey lol?)