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2016-17 UEFA Champions League

citytillidie

Yes it is that time again

Draw for 1st and 2nd Qualifying Rounds are on Monday at 11am.

1st Round
Seeds
The New Saints (WAL)
Valletta FC (MLT)
Flora Tallinn (EST)
FC Santa Coloma (AND)

Unseeded
B36 Torshavn (FAR)
Lincoln Red Imps (GIB)
Alashkert FC (ARM)
Tre Penne (SMA)

2nd Round
Seeds
FC Salzburg (AUT)
Celtic FC (SCO)
APOEL Nicosia (CYP)
BATE Borisov (BLS)
Legia Warsaw(POL)
Dinamo Zargreb (CRO)
Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL)
FC København (DEN)
Garabag Agdam (AZB)
Rosenborg BK (NOR)
FK Astana (KAZ)
Sheriff Tiraspol (MOL)
Red Star Belgrade (SRB)
Dinamo Tbilisi (GEO)
FH Hafnarfjardar (ISL)
AS Trencín (SVK)
Winners of match with The New Saints

Unseeded
F91 Dudelange (LUX)
Zalgiris Vilnius (LIT)
Hapoel Beer-Sheva (ISR)
Olimpija Ljubljana (SLO)
Winners of match with Valletta FC
Vardar Skopje (MAC)
IFK Norrköping (SWE)
Ferencváros (HUN)
Crusaders Belfast (NIR)
Winners of game with Flora Tallinn
Zrinjski Mostar (BOS)
Winners of game with FC Santa Coloma
Dundalk (IRL)
Mladost Podgorica (MON)
SJK Seinäjoki (FIN)
Partizani Tirana (ALB)* TBC
FK Liepaja (LAT)

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The Talking Bread

In a way Arsenal are lucky to see what has happened at United so they can be patient with there incoming manager. Different circumstances of course.

bucketybuck

The Talking Bread wrote: »

In a way Arsenal are lucky to see what has happened at United so they can be patient with there incoming manager. Different circumstances of course.

I agree with some of your points, especially the fact that United really should be in 2nd or 3rd right now, but I disagree with this.

Sometimes the wrong manager is just the wrong manager, United are only in a much better place now because they didn't cling to the ideal of being patient with the manager, instead they acted and got rid of two managers who quite clearly were not doing a good job. I dread to think where we would be had Van Gaal been given more time

jacool

The Talking Bread wrote: »

United aren't in that bad a state. There is a massive overreaction at times as to their "demise". You would swear it was Leeds.

The problem with Leeds was that they thought that they would be in the CL every season and (over)spent accordingly.
The "demise" of Man Utd is called so because they also saw themselves as "belonging" in the CL every season, and have failed twice in the last 3 seasons. Their "demise" is relative only to their expectations.

As for the CL, I think Arsenal can say goodbye to that now for a few seasons at least. Both Manchester clubs, and two London clubs are all ahead of them now in the pecking order, and they might well end up on some managerial merry-go-round now, which isn't a guarantee for success at all. They lack steel, aggression and at least 3 other Koscielny's. (Technically on the pitch for only 1 of the 10 goals conceded vs Bayern!)

monkey9

Mickeroo wrote: »

The fact that that Kroenke and the board won't be going anywhere even if Wenger leaves means nothing will really change at the club anytime soon imo.

You say that and look, you know more about Arsenal than i do. I won't really argue that it'd be better if Kroenke went as well because it does seem to be an opinion of a lot of Arsenal fans.

But is it true that Wenger won't or doesn't really like to spend money that is readily available to him, or is there just not the money available to him that is reported in the media (i know he did spend a bit in the summer alright).

You could get a manager, just say Simone for arguements sake, who will spend that money available and who may well spend it better. It's not like Arsenal are truly that bad in an overall sense.

Kroenke will still want top four and be happy just to achieve that, but maybe a new manager can get him that by finishing top and actually then being competitive in the Champions League when they get there?

So basically, a change of manager really could be all it needs.

Mickeroo

monkey9 wrote: »

You say that and look, you know more about Arsenal than i do. I won't really argue that it'd be better if Kroenke went as well because it does seem to be an opinion of a lot of Arsenal fans.

But is it true that Wenger won't or doesn't really like to spend money that is readily available to him, or is there just not the money available to him that is reported in the media (i know he did spend a bit in the summer alright).

You could get a manager, just say Simone for arguements sake, who will spend that money available and who may well spend it better. It's not like Arsenal are truly that bad in an overall sense.

Kroenke will still want top four and be happy just to achieve that, but maybe a new manager can get him that by finishing top and actually then being competitive in the Champions League when they get there?

So basically, a change of manager really could be all it needs.

Regardless its time for Wenger to go but honestly I think the club is just rotten to the core with a lack of ambition to do anything other than remain in "good shape".

GavRedKing

Arsenal have spent big in the last 3 or 4 years, theyve just not got enough bang for their buck, I get it they want to at the very least push for a title and ultimately win it and also get further than the round of 16 in the UCL.

Their side is full of internationals with a wealth of experience, the biggest let down seems to be the manager and whats worse, unless the players (Sanchez, Ozil) know about a new manager coming in this summer, they could both be off and will be impossible to replace for the money theyed get and then Arsenal would need to replace Wenger anyway in 12 or 24 months time.

Its harsh but if they want to stay relevant they have to take that extended deal for Wenger off the table and leave him go in the summer or else they could lose 2 prized assets with no chance of replacing them.

KaiserGunner

GavRedKing wrote: »

Arsenal have spent big in the last 3 or 4 years, theyve just not got enough bang for their buck, I get it they want to at the very least push for a title and ultimately win it and also get further than the round of 16 in the UCL.

Their side is full of internationals with a wealth of experience, the biggest let down seems to be the manager and whats worse, unless the players (Sanchez, Ozil) know about a new manager coming in this summer, they could both be off and will be impossible to replace for the money theyed get and then Arsenal would need to replace Wenger anyway in 12 or 24 months time.

Its harsh but if they want to stay relevant they have to take that extended deal for Wenger off the table and leave him go in the summer or else they could lose 2 prized assets with no chance of replacing them.

Arsenal spent big last summer. They didn't spend big the other summers. Summer 13 Mesut Ozil was bought for 42 million and Flamini was bought on a free.
Summer 14 Sanchez was bought for 35 million, Debuchy, Chambers, Ospina for moderate fees around 10-15 million each.
Summer 15 Cech was the only signing, now this really pissed me off at the time and was actually negligence on part of Wenger and the board.
Arsenal still have more financial muscle than they are showing, which is my major problem with Kroenke though.

The difference in these years as opposed to the years before summer 13 was that we haven't lost any major players which happened regularly before that, due to finances.
I agree Wengers time is done now, but as has been said ad nauseaum Kroenke and his cronies need to go as well. Wenger is only half the problem.

GavRedKing

Arsenal are valued at what, probably £1.5 billion and Kroenke's company own about 70% of the club so his shares, that put his value at close to a billion, give or take a few quid.

Whats the answer? Arsenal are making serious money every year, theyre running a profit and unless Usmanov or some Chinese/Arab investor group comes in with a stupidly high offer for his stake, hes not going to sell up, unfortunately for the fans.

Even if the fans start kicking up a fuss, it will take probably a combination of a few bad season and increasing fan pressure to force him, IMO.

If Wenger goes and Arsenal win the league within the next 3 years under a new manager, I'm sure they'll still be annoyed with some of Kroenke's business but it will ultimately appease the masses, I can also see a new guy either demanding more freedom to spend or else they could be hiring a Moyes style boss, a level below what a team like Arsenal should be hoping to get in.

BOHSBOHS

Tough times in RTE
No money for chairs for the panel

Andersonisgod

BOHSBOHS wrote: »

Tough times in RTE
No money for chairs for the panel

Liam Brady staring at the tactics screen like it's soms kind of futuristic spaceship that's descended to Earth was high quality television.

GreNoLi

Come on psg, really humiliate them.

GavRedKing

Some bookies have Barca at 15/2 to go through tonight.

Thats insane, anyone putting money on that is better off throwing it on the lotto.

Andersonisgod

Spoiler, Barça aren't going through tonight. However the performance against Celta was so good, I just want to see a performance that makes us all proud and happy.

GavRedKing

Barca will need some serious luck to go through tonight.

If theyre 2-0 at HT they might give themselves a glimmer but leaving one in and they will, and its game over.