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Does anyone know what the ethnic Traveller Status statement actually means?

Spanish Eyes

I'm just a bit puzzled by this impending statement by Enda Kenny, being delivered shortly.

Does it change any law, does it change the Constitution?

Does anyone know. Information is thin on the ground really AFAIS.

Thanks.

Edit: Mod warning http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102785057&postcount=212

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Spanish Eyes

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You won't find too many lefties in foxrock.
You started this thread and by doing so you've actually proved that travellers need the extra protection that their unique ethnicity will now get under the law.
I tip my hat to you. Thanks for doing this service

Do you live next door or very near to them?

Help!!!!

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Ethnic cleansing can be a joke? How?
(

Believe it or not, some people dont go out to see things as offensive. Ever here of satire??

[Deleted User]

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Do you live next door or very near to them?

I know many travellers. I have great experience of them. They are like settled people, a mixed bag. From criminals too collage degree. I know enough travellers to know how ignorant it is to believe or try make out that they are all the same. Certainly not the truth

[Deleted User]

Help!!!! wrote:

Believe it or not, some people dont go out to see things as offensive. Ever here of satire??

Yes I have but there are some thing's you don't say. I didn't hear lots of satire today about dead Babies or body parts because that type of thing is not funny and you can't say oh your too sensitive, how was I to know that your baby died. Sure wasn't it only a joke.
Anyone that would suggest ethnic cleansing even in jest has a great hatred of travellers. Words like this can be seen as enticement to violence. People have gone to jail for speaking like that. It's called hate speech.

[Deleted User]

Fries-With-That wrote: »

I haven't read all your posts but this post seems very angry, I do not know what interactions you may or may not have had with travellers or other people the PC brigade defend, but your anger must be rooted in personal experience.

Travellers are people not things, you may not like any travellers but I doubt that you have had interactions with all travellers, they are not all the same.

I grew up beside travellers, know several travellers for over 45 years, I have worked alongside travellers, I have worked in business where some of my best customers were travellers. I have met travellers I do not like, equally I have met people that are not travellers I do not like.

I have had experiences with travellers that could if I was to view all people the same way cloud my opinion of all travellers, the same could be said for people that were not travellers.

Many of the posts in this thread appear to be from people that have had bad experiences with travellers, or people that resent the fact that they pay tax and this funds traveller families.

Every person in this country that buys anything in this country pays tax, travellers pay tax, people on the dole pay tax its just that people that work in steady employment pay more tax.

It would be great if people calmed down a little and thought about the fact that the experiences you may have had with a small section of the travelling community does not give you the entitlement to judge all travellers.

Some posts in this thread are beneath contempt, traveller families do have children with disabilities, they do have all the usual impairments that settled people have, you may not have noticed these things because you do not know many travellers.

The disgusting suggestion that traveller families somehow or other indulge in a little infanticide to make sure these issues are not present in their families is probably the worst thing I have ever seen in the many thousands of posts I have read on boards over the years.

In fairness, that's a good post...

[Deleted User]

end of the road wrote: »

of course it isn't okay. nobody suggested it was. however, those who are going to commit crime do think it's okay, and no amount of telling them "don't do it" is going to work. the rules need to be enforced and it's as simple as that.

No it's not as simple as that. It's as simple as they know quite well it's wrong, they just don't give a fcuk. There's your personal responsibility gone. They absolve themselves of it. "The rules need to be enforced, the rules need to be enforced." They need to restrain themselves from breaking the bloody rules, same way I restrain myself from breaking a red light. Chances are I'll get away with it if I do it but it's for the benefit of everyone else if I don't.

I'm gonna quote two snippets of what you said.

the fact that more may be involved in crime doesn't come into the reasoning really

And

they are entitled not to be discriminated against.

Do you not see the correlation between those two statements? You admit more are involved in crime so obviously it stands to reason that some of this perceived discrimination has a basis. Take your head out of the sand. Again, not saying all are bad but my god it's not a reputation unearned by any means.

pragmatic1

Ronin247 wrote: »

This is an historic day for all travellets in the country. There will now be official recognition that the travelling people have a seperate genetic make-up although they are and will continue to be Irish.

Travellers will now have to be given a voice in the Dail and be allowed to raise their own taxes and fund their own social welfare budgets from the taxes raised from all working travellers and all vehicle tax raised from travellers will fund the housing programs specifically for this important ethnic minority..... I hope.

They don't though. We all come from the same stock. There's just more interbreeding in the traveller community due to their culture. They're as genetically Irish as the rest of us.

Galwayguy35

Fakediamond wrote: »

What does make me laugh is people going on about Travellers not working, when it's almost impossible for them to get a job because no-one will hire them. Now that is ironic!

Rubbish.

Jobs are there if they want them but sure why work when everything is handed to them and it's tax free.

digzy

Sam Kade wrote: »

Can you explain the reason they look so different to settled Irish people if they came from settled Irish people?

Inbreeding

[Deleted User]

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Rubbish.

Jobs are there if they want them but sure why work when everything is handed to them and it's tax free.

So employers are queuing up for them, they want them as secretaries and bar staff and waitresses and teachers and so on...it's just that they are genetically lazy?

I doubt it.

eviltwin

Deleted User wrote: »

So employers are queuing up for them, they want them as secretaries and bar staff and waitresses and teachers and so on...it's just that they are genetically lazy?

I doubt it.

It's not just ignorance and bigotry. How many travellers have the education and social skills to do even a basic job? They can't have it both ways. They can't cry discrimination when it comes to employment if they not supporting their children to stay at school.

Graces7

end of the road wrote: »

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

oh she really does. you don't. you lost the argument.

wish they would amend the quotes!! And yes I do after the life I have had.

i'm afraid it is true, it's not just the people who cause the trouble who get discriminated against.

Exactly. Take each person as you find them.

By the way yes I know your bad neighbours are travellers. My terrible neighbours were not. Understand? Thank you

Graces7

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yes in some cases not all :rolleyes:

are the gardai at every pub at closing when locals cut up rough?

Graces7

huddledDuke12 wrote: »

To answer the question originally posed in the thread title, it would indicate to me that honesty has been further reduced in priority by our government.:mad:

How are we supposed to treat people equal when they don't behave equal?

Yes, there are a lot of members (don't know the exact figure) of the traveling community who want to escape the rut they have been subjected to all their lives (either by working their way out of it or going the entrepreneurship route) and for that, I have the utmost respect. That way, there would be a breadwinner aspect to their lifestyle.

However, if someone wants to live their whole lives without earning their keep, all respect is lost. That also goes for members of the settled community.

Bottom line, respect is earned and not given freely.

define equal please? Do you mean homogeneous? Identical to you? Clones of you?

Interesting times ahead with refugees arrive

Or that they have to meet YOUR standards and ideas?

Graces7

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Travellers do not want to be discriminated against. They want to be equal.

Then they want to be different and ethnic.

Which is it now?

All. Equal does not mean identical, clones.. copies...

Graces7

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Not necessarily, all other minorities by and large contribute something to society, travellers don't.

They ride sulkies when im at work paying for them.

In Killarney they do a grand work with the Jaunting cars... Great contribution there .

Graces7

Fakediamond wrote: »

Statements like this are exactly the reason why Travellers need ethnic status and protection. The vitriolic racism on here is quite shocking and highlights a wilful ignorance of the dynamics of marginalisation and disadvantage.

Did not Hitler target gypsies too? And the disabled

end of the road

Omackeral wrote: »

No it's not as simple as that. It's as simple as they know quite well it's wrong, they just don't give a fcuk. There's your personal responsibility gone. They absolve themselves of it. "The rules need to be enforced, the rules need to be enforced." They need to restrain themselves from breaking the bloody rules, same way I restrain myself from breaking a red light. Chances are I'll get away with it if I do it but it's for the benefit of everyone else if I don't.

yeah. yeah. look, in an ideal world nobody would break the law. but they do. no amount of whining about personal responsibility is going to change the reality. as they being told to not do it doesn't work, the enforcers of the law have to enforce the law.

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm gonna quote two snippets of what you said.

And

Do you not see the correlation between those two statements? You admit more are involved in crime so obviously it stands to reason that some of this perceived discrimination has a basis. Take your head out of the sand. Again, not saying all are bad but my god it's not a reputation unearned by any means.

discrimination because "traveler" never has any basis. discrimination on the basis of "traveler" is also against the law. if you do it then you don't have a leg to stand on.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Rubbish.

Jobs are there if they want them but sure why work when everything is handed to them and it's tax free.

wrong, few jobs are there for them as few will hire them because "traveler"

um7y1h83ge06nx

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/238183/criminals-flee-as-limerick-man-93-fires-shotgun.html

Men with slash hooks? What's the chances they were our ethnic friends embracing their culture?

Richard Hillman

The Traveller Ethnicity Test Thread will be shut as soon as a mod spots it but it raises an interesting point.

Undoubtedly the next step is for large companies and government agencies to hire a quota of travellers. What do we define a traveller as being? What is there to stop me saying one of my deceased grandparents was a traveller, therefore I am a traveller, hire me?

We can't test for traveller Ethnicity because it doesn't actually exist.

end of the road

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The Traveller Ethnicity Test Thread will be shut as soon as a mod spots it but it raises an interesting point.

Undoubtedly the next step is for large companies and government agencies to hire a quota of travellers. What do we define a traveller as being? What is there to stop me saying one of my deceased grandparents was a traveller, therefore I am a traveller, hire me?

We can't test for traveller Ethnicity because it doesn't actually exist.

it does exist, hence the government have recognised it. tests have been done i believe in the uk, to determine if traveler ethnicity exists and it does. it was linked to earlier in the thread.

[Deleted User]

Diddled by Steve wrote: »

Would you rather live bedside a house full of tinkers or a house full of gypsies?

I'd pick the roma.

4 posts. All on this topic. You get the reaction you're begging for?

JamboMac

end of the road wrote: »

it does exist, hence the government have recognised it. tests have been done i believe in the uk, to determine if traveler ethnicity exists and it does. it was linked to earlier in the thread.

If your talking about the gene test that was done on 40 families/people it's a very low number to accurately get a good base for ethnic diversity. All you would actually need is those people/families to be related and have the same grandfather who was foreign and that would give you the results.

pragmatic1

end of the road wrote: »

it does exist, hence the government have recognised it. tests have been done i believe in the uk, to determine if traveler ethnicity exists and it does. it was linked to earlier in the thread.

What type of tests, genetic. Honestly not trying to be inflammatory, but if it's genetic testing, would it be testing levels of genetic variation. I'd say there's less genetic variation found in traveller DNA due to a smaller gene pool.

[Deleted User]

Not only does it exist but the tests showed ethnicity dating more than 500 years. Before the test it was assumed that broke away from society during & as a result of the potato famine (genocide).

Edit: 360 years not 500. My mistake

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Graces7 wrote: »

Did not Hitler target gypsies too? And the disabled

Yes, and Jews, Christians, Slavs, Mentally ill, handicapped, homosexuals, communists, et al.

So not much of a gauge of anything really.

cursai

Anybody who works with this social group are going to have a harder time now with this new legal status.

[Deleted User]

cursai wrote:

Anybody who works with this social group are going to have a harder time now with this new legal status.

How would that be so? I would have expected anyone who works with travellers will have an easier time as there is now a legal recognition & the added protection by law.
I can see it being harder to discriminate against them but that's not a bad thing

pragmatic1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not only does it exist but the tests showed ethnicity dating more than 500 years. Before the test it was assumed that broke away from society during & as a result of the potato famine (genocide).

Edit: 360 years not 500. My mistake

Cromwell, the bastard.

JamboMac

http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?p=100&n=110&a=10364

Here's the study and it basically cites the reason for it being the cousin marriages and so on and this come with numerous traveller specific disorders, so if you want the joy of ethnic minority status start breeding with your cousins.