FrancieBrady wrote: » Everyone is being very polite as is typical on an election night. But it has been a traumatic day for unionism that will have implications. Arlene scooting away and not talking to the BBC is significant. The bunker mentality will grow.
RicePat wrote: » FrancieBrady wrote: » Everyone is being very polite as is typical on an election night. But it has been a traumatic day for unionism that will have implications. Arlene scooting away and not talking to the BBC is significant. The bunker mentality will grow. Someone else must have written Arlene's speech for her, it was all measured and polite. The DuP will put on a brave face but there must be people behind the scenes quietly acknowledging that while Arlene is at the helm, Sinn Féin will be on the rise
captainspeed wrote: » Amazing day. I simply can't believe it. The DUP mightn't even be the biggest party. I feel awful sorry for Mike Nesbitt and the UUP. They tried to be someway sensible and pragmatic, offering to transfer to the equally someway sensible and pragmatic SDLP, but sadly lost bigtime. Actually, perhaps this is the only reason the DUP will be the biggest party, if that is what transpires.
I have zero sympathy for the DUP, they should have lost more seats if anything. Between Brexit, which is totally against the will of the people in Northern Ireland, and the appalling abuse of the petition of concern on equal marriage etc, they're just a totally backward and bigoted party really aren't they. The ironic thing is, the 'mainland' (who after all the DUP is supposedly trying to replicate, being British and all that kind of palaver) brought in equal marriage and other socially progressive measures before Ireland did yet the nationalist parties have long ago moved with the times while the DUP stays stuck in the past.
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: » I saw a few news outlets today covering a survey by the Electoral Reform Society that shows how entrenched the tribal politics are. They used data from more than 4,000 voters questioned after the last election and found that only 4% of Catholics would give their first vote to a unionist party, and only 2% of Protestants would give a first vote to a nationalist party. Also, out of all preferences by Catholics, only 8% go to unionist parties; out of all preferences by Protestants, only 6% go to nationalist parties. That suggests to me not only is their little prospect for a 'new type' of politics, but that there won't be any change for several decades.
captainspeed wrote: » Amazing day. I simply can't believe it. The DUP mightn't even be the biggest party. I feel awful sorry for Mike Nesbitt and the UUP. They tried to be someway sensible and pragmatic, offering to transfer to the equally someway sensible and pragmatic SDLP, but sadly lost bigtime. Actually, perhaps this is the only reason the DUP will be the biggest party, if that is what transpires. I have zero sympathy for the DUP, they should have lost more seats if anything. Between Brexit, which is totally against the will of the people in Northern Ireland, and the appalling abuse of the petition of concern on equal marriage etc, they're just a totally backward and bigoted party really aren't they. The ironic thing is, the 'mainland' (who after all the DUP is supposedly trying to replicate, being British and all that kind of palaver) brought in equal marriage and other socially progressive measures before Ireland did yet the nationalist parties have long ago moved with the times while the DUP stays stuck in the past.
A Little Pony wrote: » I don't think a woman can lead Unionism. Hope Arlene Foster stands down, get Ian Paisley Jr to be leader.
LuckyLloyd wrote: » For the first time, there isn't a Unionist majority in the assembly. That's significant. More significant is that the DUP lost their ability to raise POCs to block legislation like Gay Marriage, etc. Great stuff.
RicePat wrote: » blanch152 wrote: » IRA t-shirts are not sectarian? I have heard it all now. No more sectarian than a Brit Army t-shirt.
blanch152 wrote: » IRA t-shirts are not sectarian? I have heard it all now.
A Little Pony wrote: » The Assembly probably won't be up again for years, so all things considered it is irrelevant. Michelle O'Neil said she won't go into power sharing with Arlene Foster. Unionism needs to up its propaganda and get on the attack, less of the defensive. Destroy the lesser parties which have no chance of winning and elect a new leader of the DUP. The DUP could elect a new leader in a few weeks, refuse to nominate and just go to another election and spark the Unionist electorate into light. I'd be very surprised if direct rule didn't come about.
FrancieBrady wrote: » A Little Pony wrote: » The Assembly probably won't be up again for years, so all things considered it is irrelevant. Michelle O'Neil said she won't go into power sharing with Arlene Foster. Unionism needs to up its propaganda and get on the attack, less of the defensive. Destroy the lesser parties which have no chance of winning and elect a new leader of the DUP. The DUP could elect a new leader in a few weeks, refuse to nominate and just go to another election and spark the Unionist electorate into light. I'd be very surprised if direct rule didn't come about. So you recommend more sectarian bile to attempt to 'ignite' a unionist electorate? Interesting. Would you deign to go to the polling center and actually vote next time or is it not sectarian enough yet?
A Little Pony wrote: » You have to use propaganda to get the message out and to inspire your core base. This election left so many Unionists like myself disillusioned. Sometimes you have to ignite the fire in the belly again. Hopefully this does it for Unionism.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Surely the lesson from this election is that if you try to fight them by invoking archaic sectarian mantras then you will lose - heavily. Are the DUP mature enough to learn their lesson, we will see at 4pm when they have called a press conference I believe.
ArthurDayne wrote: » To be honest, I'm not so sure about that. The DUP lost their petition of concern yes, and gave SF a renewed impetus, but ultimately they remain the largest party -- despite all their backward ideology, messing up on RHI and doing very little to soften their image outside of their support base. Ultimately, people still voted for them in droves. The overall result was that when the DUP retreated into the traditional phalanx of Unionist politics, Nationalists went straight for SF. Unionism will be feeling a shock today, in the wake of a timely reminder that Irish Nationalism is alive and well in the north. But the DUP will take some satisfaction from the fact that they have remained the largest party despite the fact that (a) their public image was at a low point and (b) that they did next to nothing to address this, save for mobilising Unionism to stop SF from becoming the largest party.
ArthurDayne wrote: » FrancieBrady wrote: » Surely the lesson from this election is that if you try to fight them by invoking archaic sectarian mantras then you will lose - heavily. Are the DUP mature enough to learn their lesson, we will see at 4pm when they have called a press conference I believe. To be honest, I'm not so sure about that. The DUP lost their petition of concern yes, and gave SF a renewed impetus, but ultimately they remain the largest party -- despite all their backward ideology, messing up on RHI and doing very little to soften their image outside of their support base. Ultimately, people still voted for them in droves. The overall result was that when the DUP retreated into the traditional phalanx of Unionist politics, Nationalists went straight for SF. Unionism will be feeling a shock today, in the wake of a timely reminder that Irish Nationalism is alive and well in the north. But the DUP will take some satisfaction from the fact that they have remained the largest party despite the fact that (a) their public image was at a low point and (b) that they did next to nothing to address this, save for mobilising Unionism to stop SF from becoming the largest party.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Well I think we will get a clear indication if any lessons have been learnt by how the DUP respond. If Arlene goes, that will be significant and a sign that they are willing to be mature. *press conference not happening now according to RTE, around 'persistent rumours about Arlene Foster'.
ArthurDayne wrote: » Yeah, I would say if they are going to push her then they should push her now -- because they will never be seen to dance to SF's fiddle in the negotiations to come, in which it seems apparent that SF will not work with Arlene Foster. If there are internal talks going on right now, I imagine they will be something along the lines of whether conceding defeat to SF on Foster's position is worth avoiding a stalemate and direct rule. The DUP have in many ways have come to a crossroads. Demographics have changed and, while I think they actually did better in this election than people seem to think they did, it is clear that the old days of Unionist leaders being able to whip up a frenzy to get their way are almost entirely spent. They now have to decide whether the DUP evolves as a party and brings itself into a 21st century frame of mind, or opt for that tried-and-tested ploy of sticking up the Red Hand and convincing Unionists of a plot to destroy Ulster. 18% of the Northern Irish electorate voted DUP, it's hardly the stuff of catastrophe. But the warning signs are there, and their reaction now will likely define the course of Unionism for a generation.
A Little Pony wrote: » That is like saying does Republicanism need discarded because Sinn Fein had a poor election in 2016. It is one election, the DUP weren't prepared for it and Sinn Fein took advantage of it. The next election will see the DUP back with more seats.
FrancieBrady wrote: » SF have modernised republicanism, they have gone with the flow. The UUP show what happens when you try the same with Unionism. It patently doesn't have an update function as it is stuck firmly in the past. I wouldn't be so sure the DUP will be back with more seats at all. It was almost stripped back to it's core support this time, which is, like it or not, a dying breed.
funkey_monkey wrote: » What's the odds of DUP getting a new leader and going back for a second election after a period of direct rule to try and shake out the unionist voters? Is it likely?
Jayop wrote: » Ffs just look at the faces of the Unionist MLA's compared to the SF ones. Youth and vibrance vs old Grey men. Dinosaurs.
FrancieBrady wrote: » A Little Pony wrote: » That is like saying does Republicanism need discarded because Sinn Fein had a poor election in 2016. It is one election, the DUP weren't prepared for it and Sinn Fein took advantage of it. The next election will see the DUP back with more seats. SF have modernised republicanism, they have gone with the flow. The UUP show what happens when you try the same with Unionism. It patently doesn't have an update function as it is stuck firmly in the past. I wouldn't be so sure the DUP will be back with more seats at all. It was almost stripped back to it's core support this time, which is, like it or not, a dying breed.
A Little Pony wrote: » Next election will see DUP win again and gain more seats. The Unionist electorate will be out for blood so to speak. If Ian Paisley Jr is leader, I will vote for them. He has a good balanced approach about him and a very smart guy who can play the game.
