Snickers Man wrote: » Not doubting that they were hardly first-class medical facilities but it's quite difficult to compare statistically a home predominantly inhabited by infants/young children who were, let's face it, mainly from the poorer sections of society with attendant lower levels of health and "society in general." Hospitals have higher death rates than family homes statistically speaking. But that's because they're full of sick people. I'm trying not to be facetious, just pointing out that statistical comparisons are difficult to carry out fairly.
lazybones32 wrote: » This isn't exactly breaking news though, so I fail to see why someone gets upset despite this being known (to a degree) for some time. The Gardai are still investigating, so I'll not act as judge, jury and executioner on anyone or any institution until more information is known - and I'd advise others to do the same but I won't hold my breath... The papers used Corless' paper to run with their stories too but ended up inventing quotes and passing them off as source material. The Indo, in particular, should be viewed with very cautious eyes....I don't trust them to give the correct date.
KKkitty wrote: » My mother was in a mother and baby home in the early 70's. Whilst in labour a nun slapped her in the face because my mother dared to scream with the the pain of childbirth. The nun told her to shut up and said that's what you get for your sins. This discovery is only the tip of the iceberg. These poor babies didn't ask for this and the state should cut all ties with the CC but won't. This is an absolute disgrace but the CC will find some way out of it, they always do.
carolinej wrote: » Truly shocking, horrendous & deeply heart breaking. I just cannot understand the mindset of those nuns tasked with looking after children and their mother's who were alone, far from home, scared & vulnerable, and why these "brides of God" were so so cruel and heartless to the plight of innocent babies. I just cannot fathom or get my head around it. Anytime I pick up a baby, all I want to do is cuddle & protect. As women, where was their maternal loving & nurturing? Did they leave it at the gate when they took their vows, were they bitter they were nuns and would have preferred to be married? Was it a power trip over unmarried mothers who were shunned by family. Why Why Why and Yet, not all families banished their daughter to M&B homes. I have a relation who had a baby back in the 1960's and she was neither sent to a home or had to give the baby up. She reared him at home with her family until she married herself and husband took on her child as his own. And this happened in rural 1960's Irl. She had several uncles who were priests and a cousin who was a nun (who was buried in Goldengate cemetery, my parents were at her funeral, said it was a horrible place) so maybe on some level it was known if she was sent away the baby would be given up for adoption. I don't know.
The Backwards Man wrote: » The whole family tree of every child should be charged with murder, even they weren't even born at the time, in my opionion Anyone else?
Graces7 wrote: » [/B] Not this time. When the first Tuam news came out two years ago, I was still trading at markets etc and this was always going to be one episode too far. Attacking babies? The Church as an institution? If you are thinking in terms of physical punishment? They need to be stripped of their assets. Still not paid their abuse fines etc. Mother Teresa was the same. Starving babies...
juno10353 wrote: » There are approx 800 death certificates for the babies who died in this mother and baby home, the burial site had never been found. The babies were not interred in local cemeteries. This has lead to this site being excavated. It would appear that the bodies of these babies were just disposed of in the sewage pit and not given a proper or christian burial. It remains to be seen how many poor children were abandoned at this site and are there more sites. Approx 800 certified deaths unaccounted for.
KKkitty wrote: » The church and state should be separate entities at this stage. The only real way you can hurt the CC is financially it seems. Strip them of assets while the investigation is ongoing and keep stripping them of assets til justice prevails. Whatever happened to these poor babies, whether it be murder or sudden infant death syndrome, they deserved better than what they got. On top of being forced to give up her first born for adoption my mother lost another baby at 5 months due to cot death. The priest at the time wouldn't allow my parents to put a headstone over the grave because in his words my brother didn't live a long enough life. That happened in the early 80's.
KKkitty wrote: » ...my mother lost another baby at 5 months due to cot death. The priest at the time wouldn't allow my parents to put a headstone over the grave because in his words my brother didn't live a long enough life. That happened in the early 80's.
jimgoose wrote: » That priest should have been dragged by the head of hair from the church and strung up by his ankes from an ESB pole for a couple of days. :mad:
Shurimgreat wrote: » I know the temptation will be to blame the church and religious institutions again, but wider society shares equal blame. These mothers and their children were failed by everyone in society including the church, politicians, state bodies, civil servants and their own families. Having a baby out of wedlock could at the time bring shame but also attract the worst kind of gossip and ostracisation, perpetrated often by neighbours and ordinary citizens. My own view is the politicians of the era up to and including the likes of Devalera must take a large amount of the blame, for giving the church free reign with zero oversight. The reverence shown to the church by politicians went way too far. Only the likes of Noel Browne had the courage to stand up to them. Most of the other politicians were sheep who never raised their voices.
seamus wrote: » Yes, of course. But the mortality rates in these homes were 2 - 3 times the national average. In a place that was masquerading as a care home for mothers and children, a child mortality rate that's multiples of the national average can only happen if there was severe, even deliberate mistreatment of the residents.
juno10353 wrote: » If this burial site is confirmed to be that of those innocent children who had death certificates signed, what can the religous order responsible for their burial be charged with. I mean by that, what is the law regarding burials. It is horrific what has taken place, but do we have laws to cover it. I sincerely hope so
Deleted User wrote: » I think people are beginning to vote with their feet with regards the Catholic Church. Growing up in the 90s our church was stuffed of a Sunday morning but attitudes are changing and attendances have dwindled significantly. The local priest complained that not many of the confirmation class were turning up for mass recently. Our population has probably remained the same over the last two decades or so. Not a big sample granted but perhaps a more indicative stat is the fact that Finglas are scaling down the local Catholic Church to a smaller church that accommodates 300 people from a one that accomodated 3000. Now i cant imagine that Finglas population has declined much over the years (increased if anything)
Bargain Blake wrote: » Anyone want to take an intelligent guess at how many people will be charged with any crimes for what amounts to nothing short of genocide?
Responding to the development, Children's Minister Katherine Zappone said it was "very sad and disturbing news". "It was not unexpected as there were claims about human remains on the site over the last number of years. "Up to now we had rumours. Now we have confirmation that the remains are there, and that they date back to the time of the Mother and Baby Home, which operated in Tuam from 1925 to 1961," she said.
dav3 wrote: » You are indeed being facetious, you are also being disingenuous. This is not a recent development. Stories surrounding these homes have circulated for decades. Babies sold, babies given up for adoption without the mother’s consent, babies handed over for medical experiments.
dav3 wrote: » Until then, we do know that a significant number of babies were thrown into a pit
brevity wrote: » When I read of honour killings that take place in India/Iraq/Pakistan I sometimes wonder how someone could be so cruel to their own children/family and think how that couldn't happen here. The fact that the Catholic church brain washed people to think that the best thing to do with their kids was to give them away or threatened them to give their kids away is absolutely disgusting.
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