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Garda assaulted by two teenagers while onlookers filmed attack - what would you do?

Tokyo

Just catching up with the news from home, and I was a surprised and disappointed to read this story, where a Garda was assaulted in the middle of the day, while onlookers stood back and filmed with their phones.

Taken from here:

[The garda] said his colleague spoke to the busker and asked to see his permit when boys attempted to intervene. They were not connected to the busker and were directed by the garda sergeant to move on at which one boy said “f**k yourself” to Sergeant O’Hara.

That youth then pulled the sergeant’s bicycle helmet over his face and punched him in the head. Both fell to the ground and the boy got on top of the sergeant and continued to punch him in the face and head area.

I don't have the most love for the Gardai myself at times, but I'd like to think that if I saw anybody get kicked on the ground, that I might try to do *something* about it. I can understand the mentality where someone might stay out of it because they're outnumbered, and afraid of getting punched or hit themselves, but the mentality of an entire group that would stand back and film it for youtube posterity simply baffles me.

Would you step in if you saw someone getting kicked on the ground? Or would you be one of those who stood back to film it for youtube likes? What would you do??

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Tigger

mike_ie wrote: »

Just catching up with the news from home, and I was a surprised and disappointed to read this story, where a Garda was assaulted in the middle of the day, while onlookers stood back and filmed with their phones.

Taken from here:

I don't have the most love for the Gardai myself at times, but I'd like to think that if I saw anybody get kicked on the ground, that I might try to do *something* about it. I can understand the mentality where someone might stay out of it because they're outnumbered, and afraid of getting punched or hit themselves, but the mentality of an entire group that would stand back and film it for youtube posterity simply baffles me.

Would you step in if you saw someone getting kicked on the ground? Or would you be one of those who stood back to film it for youtube likes? What would you do??

The guards are here to support us
If a little scumbag got the better of a gaurd in front of me he'd get a punch. I'm
A citizen and they are doing a job with no weapons and we should of support that

Jack the Stripper

Welcome back mike were you catching the doldrums?

Steve

Given the current legal and judiciary, the scroate would sue you for assault and win.

"By knocking his teeth out, you deprived him of the ability to enjoy the hug and lollipop that he was sentenced to for assault, after all it was only his 99th offence"

FFS.

Tigger

Steve wrote: »

Given the current legal and judiciary, the scroate would sue you for assault and win.

"By knocking his teeth out, you deprived him of the ability to enjoy the hug and lollipop that he was sentenced to for assault, after all it was only his 99th offence"

FFS.

Step
One , thump scripts,
Step
Two run away , i doubt the cops will hunt you down all things consider

freshpopcorn

I was watching crimecall the other night and their was a segment on personal safety mainly targeted at 16/18-39 year old's and the Garda advice was if you witness an an assault you call 999 or if theirs security their you contact them and you don't play the hero by diving in.

Dave_The_Sheep

I've stopped a few kickings in my time, from school to drunkenly outside a nightclub, through physical or verbal means. I should also say I've not been in a physical fight in my life, guess I'm a cute hooer and I'm ok talking or threatening people down without actual fists.

I'd like to think i'd do the same for an Garda in question. I know a few that I wouldn't step in for, but an anonymous Garda I would. Generally, they're alright folk like you or I.

Tokyo

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I was watching crimecall the other night and their was a segment on personal safety mainly targeted at 16/18-39 year old's and the Garda advice was if you witness an an assault you call 999 or if theirs security their you contact them and you don't play the hero by diving in.

Fair enough, I agree that a person needs to look out for their own personal safety. Nor am I talking mob justice here, where everybody steps in to give them a good kicking. But I'd like to think that there's an intrinsic element of our own nature where we don't simply stand back if someone is getting hurt. And we certainly don't whip out a cellphone to record it to share on social media.

freshpopcorn

mike_ie wrote: »

Fair enough, I agree that a person needs to look out for their own personal safety. Nor am I talking mob justice here, where everybody steps in to give them a good kicking. But I'd like to think that there's an intrinsic element of our own nature where we don't simply stand back if someone is getting hurt. And we certainly don't whip out a cellphone to record it to share on social media.

Gardai would probably be delighted to have so much evidence and people actually tied to it thanks to people being on their phones.
It's very hard to know how people react in situations to be honest, I witnessed an incident before(wasn't a fight) but I and the majority of people froze and didn't know what to do.
People often don't know what to do until their actually in a situation some might fear for themselves, their family,(I know of somebody who intervened in a minor assault and their lives were made hell), then theirs people who don't care,etc.

Riddle101

Utter scumbags. The Gardaí may get a lot of slack, but think of the job they do and what they have to deal with on a regular basis. Not trying to come off as a keyboard warrior, but I would probably try to help if it were just the two of them. I mean I don't know how much good I would do but surely standing back and watching it go on is much worse.

flas

To be fair it happened in Dublin where people don't stand up for other people,right and wrong,bit more detached in the city.. I have lived city centre for 11 years and call it home and love it, before anyone says anything,this type of thing would not happen in front of so many onlookers anywhere else in the country...

tomwaterford

I anticipate a future complaint of police brutality from those starring in this video

Your Face

Well, I wouldn't have filmed it but if I was there I'm not so sure I would get involved.
My main concern would be our own legal system.
For instance, if I got involved and it got violent, who is to say I wouldn't be brought before a judge.

[Deleted User]

Thought the bystander effect has been recognised for decades?

Here it is...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Graces7

mike_ie wrote: »

Just catching up with the news from home, and I was a surprised and disappointed to read this story, where a Garda was assaulted in the middle of the day, while onlookers stood back and filmed with their phones.

Taken from here:

I don't have the most love for the Gardai myself at times, but I'd like to think that if I saw anybody get kicked on the ground, that I might try to do *something* about it. I can understand the mentality where someone might stay out of it because they're outnumbered, and afraid of getting punched or hit themselves, but the mentality of an entire group that would stand back and film it for youtube posterity simply baffles me.

Would you step in if you saw someone getting kicked on the ground? Or would you be one of those who stood back to film it for youtube likes? What would you do??

I would wade in with my walking stick .. I mean that. No hesitation.

Tokyo

Deleted User wrote: »

Thought the bystander effect has been recognised for decades?

Here it is...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

It has been, and I've seen it in action firsthand. That's why I could understand if people stood there, inert, hoping that someone else would take responsibility and step in to help. However, I'm not sure if the bystander effect covers whipping out the iPhone to get a good video of the assault - that's a calculated step, where one-upmanship on the internet is put before moral obligation IMO.

vicwatson

What would I do? I'd call the g......oh no wait!

In reality I'd probably get stuck into the scum and help out, and think later

[Deleted User]

mike_ie wrote: »

It has been, and I've seen it in action firsthand. That's why I could understand if people stood there, inert, hoping that someone else would take responsibility and step in to help. However, I'm not sure if the bystander effect covers whipping out the iPhone to get a good video of the assault - that's a calculated step, where one-upmanship on the internet is put before moral obligation IMO.

I don't get that aspect myself, but have seen it. Saw a fight where an onlooker whipped out the phone. Didn't get involved in the fight, looked like a 50/50 thing, not my concern...but did ask the fellow why he was filming. He didn't answer...

LeBash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thought the bystander effect has been recognised for decades?

Here it is...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

If they did a more recent study to see how many filmed the incident would be more helpful

gifted

Warren Beatty....and the Oscar winner for film of the year...."scumbag thumping the head off a garda".....oh wait...

Guy Sajer

"He has one prior criminal conviction for violent disorder for which he was placed on probation for 12 months in February last year"

Has a mental disorder but still wise enough to wait until his probation ends before comitting. another attack.

Graces7

vicwatson wrote: »

What would I do? I'd call the g......oh no wait!

In reality I'd probably get stuck into the scum and help out, and think later

Call the garda too; for back up. They wil wade in. Big time. QUick response too.

suicide_circus

If I thought the law would protect me I'd come to the garda's aid with a flying knee into the scrote's kidneys

razorblunt

I'd jump in without a doubt. Just to clarify, to help the Garda.
I've done it before where a Garda was chasing some scumbag down the street and shouting at him to stop., just collared him in that situation and got him to the floor. Was told afterwards that I shouldn't have intervened, by the Garda himself, but was thanked anyway.

I grew up relatively close to a dodgy area in Cork, any chance to put these scumbags back in their box should be taken IMHO.

conorhal

I'd hope I'd have delivered a flying kick to the little thugs back as he straddled the Guard and then pegged it down the road, thus giving the Guard at least the space to recover his ability to control the situation.
Of course I'd also hope that two Guards would be sufficiently trained for a 16yr old junkie not to be any kind of a threat or problem for them.

Only last week I whipped out my phone and started filming an incident, from a safe distance. Two teenagers had kicked over a bike chained up outside the Jervis center and one proceeded to jump up and down on the wheels.
I took out my phone and started filming it, and made it really obvious that I was doing so, because sometimes an awareness that you're being recorded by a person while in the act of a crime is enough to make the the perpetrator back off or scarper. So recording sombody rather then intervening can have the same desired effect, to make them stop.
In my case they did, as soon as the scumbags mate pointed out that I was filming them they stopped, one shouted at me to stop filming him and I hollard back that not only would I not, I would be sending the footage to the Guards (Which was an idle threat since the camera on my phone is useless). They hopped on their bikes and cycled off, then around back in my direction and the bike seat off the bike they had been vandalizing came flying at my head but missed me. It wasn't going to hit me though as I had an eye on them approaching as I was walking away and he pegged it at me from too far off. I continued calmly walking towards and into the nearby Spar which tends to have security.

I had judged that I was far enough from them to avoid a direct confrontation (I wasn't taking on two or three teenagers on my own), and they weren't ballsy enough kids to directly come after me, and if they did, I was close enough to safety to escape. So I figured filming them to disuade them from destroying some poor feckers bike was the resonable course of action.

I don't mind saying that I was a little shook by the incident, but I shruged that off because that experience has hardly been an uncommon one. I live in the city center and it seems to get scummier and more anti-social with every year that passes. Part of the reason for that is the fact that Guards are either absent, or when present simply lack the training or skills to intervene.

Wibbs

mike_ie wrote: »

However, I'm not sure if the bystander effect covers whipping out the iPhone to get a good video of the assault - that's a calculated step, where one-upmanship on the internet is put before moral obligation IMO.

I'd say it's just a modern extension of it. The equivalent of standing there gawping(or looking at your shoes), with the added distance and disconnect and "shield" of the camera between the person and the situation.

Saw it myself a few years ago when up at the local shops a middle aged guy dropped like a stone in front of me from a heart attack. A couple of people went over to help and I did the oul CPR until the ambulance came. Those that stopped(about half kept walking while craning their necks) just stood like open mouthed morons and a few got their phones out to video/take pics. One elderly chap who came over with me had to shout to ask somebody to ring 999 on the phones they already had in their hands. Unreal. Most people, unless they've had specific training are about as much use as tits on a bull in an acute crisis. To be fair it makes very good evolutionary sense. "Playing dead" or running away from potential danger is a far better bet than walking up to it. The cautious live longer and have more kids.

Actually - and I dunno if this is a thing - I've personally noticed in situations like that the elderly are much more likely to come to someone's aid. I thought maybe because of a different generation thing going on, but I also noticed under 18's were more likely to help too. Maybe they feel they have less to lose compared to someone who is 30? I dunno and tiny sample size, but I did notice that. BTW yer man with the heart attack made it alive to to ambulance and they seemed to have stabilised him so...

Graces7

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd say it's just a modern extension of it. The equivalent of standing there gawping(or looking at your shoes), with the added distance and disconnect and "shield" of the camera between the person and the situation.

Saw it myself a few years ago when up at the local shops a middle aged guy dropped like a stone in front of me from a heart attack. A couple of people went over to help and I did the oul CPR until the ambulance came. Those that stopped(about half kept walking while craning their necks) just stood like open mouthed morons and a few got their phones out to video/take pics. One elderly chap who came over with me had to shout to ask somebody to ring 999 on the phones they already had in their hands. Unreal. Most people, unless they've had specific training are about as much use as tits on a bull in an acute crisis. To be fair it makes very good evolutionary sense. "Playing dead" or running away from potential danger is a far better bet than walking up to it. The cautious live longer and have more kids.

Actually - and I dunno if this is a thing - I've personally noticed in situations like that the elderly are much more likely to come to someone's aid. I thought maybe because of a different generation thing going on, but I also noticed under 18's were more likely to help too. Maybe they feel they have less to lose compared to someone who is 30? I dunno and tiny sample size, but I did notice that. BTW yer man with the heart attack made it alive to to ambulance and they seemed to have stabilised him so...

That is interesting. Yes older and younger help more. I certainly tend to .

Reminds me of when I was in Sligo some years ago. LIDL had kindly driven me to the bank ( stranger to the town) to validate new credit card, and there was an old man on the pavement, head bleeding.

Everyone was walking last and when I asked the driver to wait a minute he refused. Someone else would stop, and look! There is a Garda,, Garda walked past but as I was about to cross the road a younger man stopped . I watched to see if it was Ok then left.

vicwatson

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

That is interesting. Yes older and younger help more. I certainly tend to .

Reminds me of when I was in Sligo some years ago. LIDL had kindly driven me to the bank ( stranger to the town) to validate new credit card, and there was an old man on the pavement, head bleeding.

Everyone was walking last and when I asked the driver to wait a minute he refused. Someone else would stop, and look! There is a Garda,, Garda walked past but as I was about to cross the road a younger man stopped . I watched to see if it was Ok then left.

What a bad LIDL driver, he drives you to the bank to validate a credit card and then wouldn't wait for you:rolleyes: Terrible taxi service. I'd go to Aldi next time

Widdershins

There's no way I would stand back and/or film it. I don't have a lot of love for some of the stupid laws we have and in my opinion some of the gardai are deserving of the name Pigs for their attitudes but I don't tar them all with the same brush. And there are aspects of their job that mean I have a lot of sympathy for them. And nobody deserves to be attacked.

[Deleted User]

If it were just me, probably not. Let's be real here - if these two scumbags cared so little that they assaulted a Gardaí, what would they do to me?

Widdershins

razorblunt wrote: »

I'd jump in without a doubt. Just to clarify, to help the Garda.
I've done it before where a Garda was chasing some scumbag down the street and shouting at him to stop., just collared him in that situation and got him to the floor. Was told afterwards that I shouldn't have intervened, by the Garda himself, but was thanked anyway.

I grew up relatively close to a dodgy area in Cork, any chance to put these scumbags back in their box should be taken IMHO.

The fact that you had to clarify..hehehe