King Mob wrote: » The mind being immortal and carrying on after the brain is not observed. There is zero evidence this happens or could happen.
Pherekydes wrote: » To use a horse racing analogy: Catholics believe there is one horse in the race and it is certain to win. Bet everything on it! In reality, there are 3000 horses in the race and none of them have a chance of even finishing. But go ahead, put everything you have on one horse...
Captain Bob Hambleton-Jones said yesterday that he had no idea that Robert Macleod, a friend and fellow pilot with Loganair, had died in an Edinburgh hospital four days earlier. The two men had known each other for nine years and Captain Hambleton-Jones, who lives in Paisley, said: ``I'm not some kind of crank. I know who I saw and who I spoke to. ``He came up to me and said, `How's it going, you old bastard?' It was great to see him. We chatted for a couple of minutes and then he said, `I must go now.' ``I picked up my bags and turned around but he wasn't there. He was gone.'' It was the following day, last June 16, before a friend drew his attention to Mr Macleod's obituary in a newspaper, which confirmed he had died in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary on June 11. Captain Hambleton-Jones, who has recently retired from flying, said: ``I was stunned. I thought it must be a mistake or a sick joke.'' Psychic research experts who investigated the claim say Captain Hambleton-Jones has had a paranormal experience which they call ``a post-mortem apparition''. Captain Hambleton-Jones, who insists that he is ``an agnostic, a real Doubting Thomas, and the original sceptic'', contacted Professor Archie Roy of Glasgow University. He is a professor of Mathematics and Astronomy and is Scottish Head of Psychic Research. Captain Hambleton-Jones, said: ``I told Professor Roy what had happened. He said that perhaps I had seen an actor or a lookalike. ``But Robert and I were captains in the same fleet for nine years and I know I spoke to him four days after he died.'' Ms Tricia Robertson, of the Scottish Society for Psychical Research, said: ``A post-mortem apparition happens when someone dies unexpectedly. His spirit is going about as normal because he doesn't believe he is dead. ``Such events are not that unusual. They happen more often than you would think.'' Mr Macleod, the son of retired Stornoway electrical contractor N D Macleod, died suddenly after a liver biopsy. Management at Glasgow Airport are concerned that news of the ghostly encounter may scare off passengers. Airport managers and the British Airports Authority refused to discuss it - and did not want the airport named. Captain Hambleton-Jones's experience will be featured in a 13-part Discovery Channel TV television documentary on the paranormal which the makers claim will be a sensible treatment of the subject
smacl wrote: » The metaphor I usually use is typing your life's work into an old computer without a hard disk or internet connection. Before saving it you inadvertently kick the plug and lose the document. But where has it gone? It is your life's work after all and you don't have a backup copy, so the document must be somewhere right?
Pherekydes wrote: » That's the same as betting on the Christian 'horse'.
Pherekydes wrote: » Tell me, when god was arranging for the slaughter of the innocents did he feel that they hadn't lived a good and wholesome life in this life?
King Mob wrote: » You believe torture is justified. That is a disgusting belief. Trying to hand wave and shift responsibility just makes you and your god look worse.
J C wrote: » When did I say that eternal torture was justified? ... it is chosen. Your assertion is like blaming me for the pain that masochists go through ... simply because I am liberal enough to accept that masochists have the right to be masochists (and associate with other masochists and even sadists) ... if that is what they want.
Near death experiences are another phenomenon ... that indicates that we may have an existence beyond this life:-
railer201 wrote: » Don't believe in the afterlife then ? - here's some food for thought !http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12118487.Former_pilot_tells_of_ghostly_meeting_with_dead_colleague/A FORMER fighter pilot claims he spoke to the ghost of a colleague at Glasgow Airport.
King Mob wrote: » Why would this be convincing? Its an unsupported, unproveable anecdote that has a hundred and one explanations if we assume its in anyway genuine and accurately reported. Then we have the problem that its entirely incompatible with many types of afterlifes, including reincarnation and JCs brand. Neither of these allow for the possibility of ghosts.
railer201 wrote: » I've no mission to convince anyone - just food for thought.
J C wrote: » What 'slaughter of the innocents' are you referring to?
Pherekydes wrote: » Matthew 2:16, though the massacre of any innocent children would serve to illustrate the point.
Pherekydes wrote: » And these children would have gone to hell because they had no personal relationship with Jesus.
King Mob wrote: » Yea, chosen cause the option is submit or be tortured. This is not a choice.
King Mob wrote: » And you believe that they deserve to be tortured for making that choice. I hold that no one deserves to be tortured for any reason, never mind for eternity for thoughtcrime.
King Mob wrote: » NDEs are entirely unscientific and without any evidence and are entirely consistent with the effects of oxygen deprivation to the brain. There is no reason to think they indicate life after death unless you accept them uncritically.
King Mob wrote: » But why did it convince you? Why would it be food for thought when even a cursory application of critical thinking allows you to dismiss it pretty much off hand.
J C wrote: » The choice is between submitting to Satan or being Saved by Jesus Christ.
J C wrote: » ... so do you believe that masochists don't have the right to suffer pain ... even when they want to suffer pain?
J C wrote: » How do you explain how some NDEs can describe things that happened in precise detail that they could only know if they were out of their bodies and fully conscious at the time ... even though they were clinically dead?
King Mob wrote: » Why would it be food for thought when even a cursory application of critical thinking allows you to dismiss it pretty much off hand.
railer201 wrote: » I'm more curious of what posters in A&A think of it. I don't have much problems in accepting it as possible fact - having heard other similar testimonies along the same lines, plus some personal experiences along the same lines.
J C wrote: » I wouldn't be so dismissive ... hospice workers see and hear some pretty strange stuff with dying people
King Mob wrote: » Yea, submit or torture. Totally fair.:rolleyes: So what if someone doesn:t want torture, but also doesn:t want to submit to your god? Tough **** for them?
King Mob wrote: » I dont have to explain how it can happen because its never happened. Please provide a single instance of this happening in conditions that can verifiably exclude other other mundane explanations.
King Mob wrote: » Then my opinion is that it:s complete nonsense. There:s zero reason to take this story, or other similar stories any way seriously. I dont understand why you would take then seriously either. Given how quick you are to avoid the questions I pose, I dont think you have a very good reason for taking them seriously either.
King Mob wrote: » So unverifiable, unsupported stories on youtube that for all you can show and can know are entirely fictional? Yes, I will be dismissive with these.
J C wrote: » The choice is between being tortured by Satan and his demons ... or being loved by God and His angels.
J C wrote: » Here is a heart surgeon's account of an NDE in a patient who came back from the dead:-
J C wrote: » Here is a Cardiologist who recorded the details of NDEs and looked at it from a scientific point of view
J C wrote: » People with flatline eeg with enhanced consciousness ... which proves that consciousness may not be localised and is outside time and space ... this is just as challenging for me as a Christian ... as it may be for an Atheist :-
railer201 wrote: » Fair enough but brick batting doesn't interest me.
railer201 wrote: » I'm more curious of what posters in A&A think of it. I don't have much problems in accepting it as possible fact - having heard other similar testimonies, plus some personal experiences along the same lines.
J C wrote: » The massacre was done by Herod ... and not God. Stop blaming God for Human evil.
Why do you say this?
In justice, these children will have been given the choice at death between God and Satan ... and I would think that nearly all (if not all) of them have been Saved.
King Mob wrote: » So just wanted to post unsupported crap and don:t want to defend it in anyway. Gotcha.
railer201 wrote: » Don't believe in the afterlife then ? - here's some food for thought !
J C wrote: » Near death experiences are another phenomenon ... that indicates that we may have an existence beyond this life
J C wrote: » and NDEs happen to all kinds of people ... including Atheists
J C wrote: » When did I say that eternal torture was justified? ... it is chosen.
J C wrote: » Here is a heart surgeon's account of an NDE in a patient who came back from the dead
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » Is it though? People claiming to hear, or converse, with people or voices that are not there is quite common. Just like people claiming to get kidnapped and probed (anally, it is always anally) by aliens is common on every continent. I am not sure what level of thought you require we put into that though, or in what form. What could be food for thought is the tiny piece of the text you chose to BOLD for consideration. I can only assume you think that someone claiming to be some form of skeptic somehow lends credibility to their claims. You might want to engage in some level of introspection as to why that is.
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