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Scabs?

Thargor

Ive been all over Wicklow and Dublin today and I saw several Tesco protests. The only really empty carpark was Bray, the rest of them looked pretty busy tbh, some like Glenageary outright packed.

Tbh whatever you think of unions and whatnot I dont think any Tesco employee is living the highlife and the company could generally be described as a scummy operation especially the stories you hear about their attitude to suppliers, I doubt their attitute to staff is much better.

Its kind of shocking so many people would just drive past a picket like that, Im not from any union family and Im not in one myself but Id never cross a picket like that especially for a bit of Sunday shopping, felt a bit disappointing tbh. Do people just not give a fcuk?

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Jawgap

tomwaterford wrote: »

I know noone who's poured vitol on anyone for striking anywhere...

It's a basic right?

Tbh....I dunno Howd they face going back to work with people what crossed a picket line....it's literally the last thing you should do to someone your working with imo

At best they can hope they'll be civil to one and other after it....but I'd imagine it would make for a poisonous work atmosphere

Quite how you try to tie this into the luas strike is a leap of logic....I'm somewhat baffled by???

It's about solidarity - if you don't give it, don't expect to receive it.

The link to the Luas strike was just a point to highlight in the other quoted post that while PS workers might strike more, it doesn't mean - as the current round of industrial unrest demonstrates - they are the only ones doing so.

paddyirishman07

As an employee who is on the picket line I have to say there is a general amount of the public supporting us. I have had a few people ask me what are ye looking for and my answer is simple noting we just want to be left alone. Tesco has not left us out for 6 days in the cold for a mere 250 staff they have a bigger picture.

Tesco has hired a company that organises in union busting and this IMO this all started in 2015 when Tesco paid some of its members a bonus and left the other half with zilch. (Tesco will not tell you that) eventually these members got there bonus after a fight in the lrc.

Tesco has also stated that they have agreed with the LRC and wrc but in fact the recommendation is only that and it states both parties are to talk for a period of 8 weeks and both parties must agree. (Tesco will not tell you that). The members have rejected not mandate as they have in the media.

Tesco also last year took on a group of staff and these staff members had to join the union themselves. (As in deductions were not taking through payroll) whereas it's a term of employment for most to be a member of a trade union. This was the start of it(Tesco will not tell you this) since September last Tesco re introduced new staff into the union again through payroll. (Tactic for no votes at the ballot box these are the few members who've passed the pickets)

Tesco was bringing staff into meetings before the strikes begin and told us we could leave our union and just cross the picket noting will happen us. Some asked can I get in writing that you will never touch my contact and we're simply told NO.

The bigger picture here is Tesco is trying to get the union out. They are trying to split the staff and in a few cases it has worked.

I've been with the company over 14 years and I'm not on the picket for 250 people I'm on it for myself my family my children.

If Tesco get away with breaking terms and conditions of employment every private sector worker will eventually have it done to them.

OTHER BUSINESSES ARE WATCHING

tomwaterford

Jawgap wrote: »

It's about solidarity - if you don't give it, don't expect to receive it.

The link to the Luas strike was just a point to highlight in the other quoted post that while PS workers might strike more, it doesn't mean - as the current round of industrial unrest demonstrates - they are the only ones doing so.

Tbh....I've no issue with public workers striking.....

The only issue I have with unions is they rarely represent non public sector workers and lower paid workers espially(IE those what need it most)

.....but that is perhaps a discussion for a different thread

paddyirishman07

Just so I can confirm we have been told we cannot picket on tesco property,we can't use the toilet,we can't wear our uniform,we can only stand in a particular place where noone can see us. etc etc.

Tesco bully tactics. If a striker is in an inconvenient place please stress this to Tesco management's that they are causing obstruction and how they should be at the front door of Tescos because that's where we all want to be but are not allowed.

ThisRegard

end of the road wrote: »

one who has any bit of decentsy does not cross a picket whether they agree or disagree with a strike.

this bunch of lies have all ready been proven to be exactly that, lies. they were spouted at the very start of the dispute in an aim to discredit these poor workers, and thankfully the evidence showed them to be lies. try again.

you don't cross a picket. that's it. if the company tries to screw you you do not take it lying down.

doesn't happen, never happened. i'm sure there are some staff who are begrudgers and don't support their fellow workers because of jealousy but i'm afraid that is their problem.

You never cease to amaze me EOTR with your blatant disregard for reality, no matter what the topic.

Phoebas

tomwaterford wrote: »

Do they not have banners/signs identifying they are from Tesco?

It was perfectly clear, certainly to me anyway, that they were from Tesco - I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Jawgap

paddyirishman07 wrote: »

As an employee who is on the picket line I have to say there is a general amount of the public supporting us. I have had a few people ask me what are ye looking for and my answer is simple noting we just want to be left alone. Tesco has not left us out for 6 days in the cold for a mere 250 staff they have a bigger picture.

Tesco has hired a company that organises in union busting and this IMO this all started in 2015 when Tesco paid some of its members a bonus and left the other half with zilch. (Tesco will not tell you that) eventually these members got there bonus after a fight in the lrc.

Tesco has also stated that they have agreed with the LRC and wrc but in fact the recommendation is only that and it states both parties are to talk for a period of 8 weeks and both parties must agree. (Tesco will not tell you that). The members have rejected not mandate as they have in the media.

Tesco also last year took on a group of staff and these staff members had to join the union themselves. (As in deductions were not taking through payroll) whereas it's a term of employment for most to be a member of a trade union. This was the start of it(Tesco will not tell you this) since September last Tesco re introduced new staff into the union again through payroll. (Tactic for no votes at the ballot box these are the few members who've passed the pickets)

Tesco was bringing staff into meetings before the strikes begin and told us we could leave our union and just cross the picket noting will happen us. Some asked can I get in writing that you will never touch my contact and we're simply told NO.

The bigger picture here is Tesco is trying to get the union out. They are trying to split the staff and in a few cases it has worked.

I've been with the company over 14 years and I'm not on the picket for 250 people I'm on it for myself my family my children.

If Tesco get away with breaking terms and conditions of employment every private sector worker will eventually have it done to them.

OTHER BUSINESSES ARE WATCHING

so it's not about the pre-1996 contracts? Was there not an LRC determination about them specifically.

I can't access the LRC/WRC pages at the moment, their site seems to be down.

Gringo180

paddyirishman07 wrote: »

OTHER BUSINESSES ARE WATCHING

Exactly. Its a race to the bottom and most multi million/billion pound companies only care is for the profits and not there staff. Its sad and whats even worse is that some people would rather support the companies than the normal joe soap who is being screwed out of a livable wage.

Phoebas

paddyirishman07 wrote: »

Just so I can confirm we have been told we cannot picket on tesco property,we can't use the toilet,we can't wear our uniform,we can only stand in a particular place where noone can see us. etc etc.

Tesco bully tactics. If a striker is in an inconvenient place please stress this to Tesco management's that they are causing obstruction and how they should be at the front door of Tescos because that's where we all want to be but are not allowed.

Strikers can hardly expect the businesses they are trying to damage to facilitate them,- can they?

georgewickstaff

So let me get this straight...

According to some of the high horse brigade the Tesco workers should

1) Allow Tesco management to alter their basic agreed terms and conditions and return to work like good little serfs. So by definition any employer should be allowed to do this when they feel the need? Or is Tesco a special case?

Or

Take redundacy from a 14 euro an hour role to "stack shelves at mimimum wage elsewhere as its not a hard job".

So if you had 20 years service and took the 50k redundancy while you were in your mid 40s it is ok in the minds of the indignant to take a drop to 17.5k p.a. if indeed you can actually get a 39 hour per week contract and slave away in the hope that you can again rise in the ranks and maybe earn 14 euro per hour?

If it is cost neutral for management to change these contracts why are they doing it? The workers do not want more, they simply want to carry on as is. Yet the staff in dispute are getting **** on here for their actions?

Best of luck to them.

tomwaterford

paddyirishman07 wrote: »

Just so I can confirm we have been told we cannot picket on tesco property,we can't use the toilet,we can't wear our uniform,we can only stand in a particular place where noone can see us. etc etc.

Tesco bully tactics. If a striker is in an inconvenient place please stress this to Tesco management's that they are causing obstruction and how they should be at the front door of Tescos because that's where we all want to be but are not allowed.

Would you not think of contacting the Irish Congress of trade unions to see exactly what legally you can/can't do??

As opposed Tesco setting out the scene??

ThisRegard

Jawgap wrote: »

So you're begrudging a guy who went to a Poly, then worked his way from an entry level position up through Unilever to head up Tesco his salary.....

.....gotta love Ireland - instead of pointing out what getting an education and applying yourself in a job can bring, we get commentary about the salary :rolleyes:

Most of Tesco store management, and a good bit of their head office, started off stacking shelves too, so there's this ill-founded concept that management there were born as such.

Gringo180

Sure is it no wonder why we have so many long term dole heads when they see how workers are treated with such utter contempt in this day and age by there employers :pac:

ThisRegard

paddyirishman07 wrote: »

As an employee who is on the picket line I have to say there is a general amount of the public supporting us. I have had a few people ask me what are ye looking for and my answer is simple noting we just want to be left alone. Tesco has not left us out for 6 days in the cold for a mere 250 staff they have a bigger picture.

Tesco has hired a company that organises in union busting and this IMO this all started in 2015 when Tesco paid some of its members a bonus and left the other half with zilch. (Tesco will not tell you that) eventually these members got there bonus after a fight in the lrc.

Tesco has also stated that they have agreed with the LRC and wrc but in fact the recommendation is only that and it states both parties are to talk for a period of 8 weeks and both parties must agree. (Tesco will not tell you that). The members have rejected not mandate as they have in the media.

Tesco also last year took on a group of staff and these staff members had to join the union themselves. (As in deductions were not taking through payroll) whereas it's a term of employment for most to be a member of a trade union. This was the start of it(Tesco will not tell you this) since September last Tesco re introduced new staff into the union again through payroll. (Tactic for no votes at the ballot box these are the few members who've passed the pickets)

Tesco was bringing staff into meetings before the strikes begin and told us we could leave our union and just cross the picket noting will happen us. Some asked can I get in writing that you will never touch my contact and we're simply told NO.

The bigger picture here is Tesco is trying to get the union out. They are trying to split the staff and in a few cases it has worked.

I've been with the company over 14 years and I'm not on the picket for 250 people I'm on it for myself my family my children.

If Tesco get away with breaking terms and conditions of employment every private sector worker will eventually have it done to them.

OTHER BUSINESSES ARE WATCHING

Ireland is a small country, Tesco relatively large, so you need to remember that a lot of people are bound to know staff there at all levels so have already a fair idea of what is and isn't happening.

The union busting thing is of particular nonsense.

Jawgap

georgewickstaff wrote: »

So let me get this straight...

According to some of the high horse brigade the Tesco workers should

1) Allow Tesco management to alter their basic agreed terms and conditions and return to work like good little serfs. So by definition any employer should be allowed to do this when they feel the need? Or is Tesco a special case?

Or

Take redundacy from a 14 euro an hour role to "stack shelves at mimimum wage elsewhere as its not a hard job".

So if you had 20 years service and took the 50k redundancy while you were in your mid 40s it is ok in the minds of the indignant to take a drop to 17.5k p.a. if indeed you can actually get a 39 hour per week contract and slave away in the hope that you can again rise in the ranks and maybe earn 14 euro per hour?

If it is cost neutral for management to change these contracts why are they doing it? The workers do not want more, they simply want to carry on as is. Yet the staff in dispute are getting **** on here for their actions?

Best of luck to them.

I'll happily accept correction on this - but is it just not the pre-1996 contracts that they are looking to vary? And were those changes not being compensated for?

And I'd say there are very few, if any, surviving retail food businesses still using the same model as they were over 20 years ago?

Plus, I'm not even sure what striking will achieve - if my local Tesco went out I wouldn't cross the picket line - I'd drive a few minutes in the opposite direction to the Dunne's. If I find the offering better I may well stick with them once the strike ends (or until the propsed Aldi opens

)

So yes, they have a fundamental right to strike but in their sector I'd question the wisdom of using it.

TallGlass

I'm honestly surprised by some of the posters, this isn't just an implication for the Tesco workers if Tesco get there way, it will have implications for every single worker in the country. It will set a precedent that workers contracts are just a formality and if a company needs to give a sob story to break them then so be it or just change them.

I know a good few pre 96ers and they have various issues with Tesco, firstly, they agreed the contract with them and cannot work the hours now as they are inflexible to them, some didn't take the pay off as they have mortgages and fear they may not get another job. Tesco shouldn't and can't be allowed to change these, it shouldn't make a difference if it is a 6 month old contract or a 100 year old one, that's not how contracts work. It also should even come into question, how much they are paid. From my guesses, the average would be between 35/40k, so get extra pay for doing more technical work like the butcher or security guard or a charge hand. You might be thinking, 'oh phek them, who cares', 'paid a fortune', well this isn't the workers causing this, it's Tesco bullying them into changing there contracts. So what if they didn't take the pay off, they shouldn't have to, what was agreed 20 years ago, is still just as valid as the day it was signed 20 or so years ago.

As for someone mentioned, yes there are times you've to pick up the slack for some work practices, but that was in isolation maybe 1 or so workers. Most if not all them I worked with are great workers and know how to get the job done, considering they are at it 20 years or so. The main problem I could see at the time, was Tesco's out and out refusal to hire new staff, or to make half arsed attempts at covering gaps which made the situation just as bad or worse than the original problem. This isn't a new thing it's going on years, they have literally been trying everything to break these workers and it's finally come to a head.

I'll give a summary, after nearly 10 years in Tesco, Tesco where generally a good employer to myself and did pay me well in fairness. Upper management are the problem, they haven't got a clue what is going on at store level and are so out of touch it literally unbelievable. I wouldn't trust Tesco with anything and would be extremely reluctant to any change from them in any capacity to my contract. So for me anyway I support the Tesco workers strike.

Gringo180

Jawgap wrote: »

I'll happily accept correction on this - but is it just not the pre-1996 contracts that they are looking to vary? And were those changes not being compensated for?

And I'd say there are very few, if any, surviving retail food businesses still using the same model as they were over 20 years ago?

Plus, I'm not even sure what striking will achieve - if my local Tesco went out I wouldn't cross the picket line - I'd drive a few minutes in the opposite direction to the Dunne's. If I find the offering better I may well stick with them once the strike ends (or until the propsed Aldi opens )

So yes, they have a fundamental right to strike but in their sector I'd question the wisdom of using it.

The workers dont want them changed. Its pretty simple. Just leave them alone.

ThisRegard

paddyirishman07 wrote: »

Tesco bully tactics. If a striker is in an inconvenient place please stress this to Tesco management's that they are causing obstruction and how they should be at the front door of Tescos because that's where we all want to be but are not allowed.

No, your picketing at the entrance of carparks in full view of everyone, the reason being that you're prevented from doing so on their property. Nothing to do with hiding you away. No bullying there, par for the course.

paddyirishman07

The LRC recommended that tesco pay a 2% pay increase to ALL employees tesco has not given it to the 250 or so pre 1996 workers.

Tesco only play ball when they want and have not told you this.

Tesco will not tell you everything you need to know. I would ask you all to take a leaflet and then make a decision and consider your family or friends or even your children could need a job here or elsewhere in the future and will be working for €12 an hour on a 20 hour contract. (4 hours a day 5 days a week)

YOUR CONTRACT MEANS NOTING AND
THIS IS THE START OF A DOMINO EFFECT FOR PRIVATE SECTOR WORKERS AND EVERYONE IS WATCHING.

VinLieger

paddyirishman07 wrote: »

YOUR CONTRACT MEANS NOTING AND
THIS IS THE START OF A DOMINO EFFECT FOR PRIVATE SECTOR WORKERS AND EVERYONE IS WATCHING.

LOL i do love me some good hyperbole in caps

tomwaterford

VinLieger wrote: »

LOL i do love me some good hyperbole in caps

Tbf.....it is a genuine concern

TallGlass

ThisRegard wrote: »

The union busting thing is of particular nonsense.

You'd honestly think that, but as I said above, I wouldn't put anything past Tesco management (talking high level), they would go to any lengths to upset workers.

I finally left, as I seen the way to company was heading, doing the same routine for over 4 years and then Tesco started wanting to target us particular workers with an usual pattern of working, basically set routine hours, Monday to Friday.

Perfectly within there rights to do so, as I was contracted 5/7 and 7am to 11pm as in my contract. I'd two options, suck it up or leave. I left, best thing I ever done TBH.

Another tactic they used as an example.

Everyone gets a bonus, Tesco decided to drop this for every worker expect the same guys they want to change. Pre 96 and Pre 99, now if that isn't Tesco trying to put a target on there backs and segregate the work force.

VinLieger

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbf.....it is a genuine concern

No its not, there is no race to the bottom, unemployment numbers are down, wages are going up and very close to being back to pre-crash levels

tomwaterford

VinLieger wrote: »

No its not, there is no race to the bottom, unemployment numbers are down, wages are going up and very close to being back to pre-crash levels

All the while conditions and workers rights are gone to shtie

The first thing the next government should do is outlaw zero hour contracts and force union recognition

Something you of course will have no issue with since there's no race to the bottom going on???

Wanderer78

VinLieger wrote:

No its not, there is no race to the bottom, unemployment numbers are down, wages are going up and very close to being back to pre-crash levels

All those political and economic commentators must be wrong then!

TallGlass

VinLieger wrote: »

No its not, there is no race to the bottom, unemployment numbers are down, wages are going up and very close to being back to pre-crash levels

That's fine? What's that got to do with this strike. It's not about money or the hiring or firing of staff. It's about Tesco wanting to kill valid contracts for no other valid reason than it doesn't suit them anymore. If they get there way, other workers in Tesco will be targeted and other companies will move to do the same.

Annasopra

Phoebas wrote: »

Strikers can hardly expect the businesses they are trying to damage to facilitate them,- can they?

The strikers ate not trying to damage any business at all. This is a lie. Strikers are forced to go where they are going because Tesco wont let them picket the stores. Strikers at my local stores are specifically asking people not to boycott other stores and have signs enviurahing people to goto the other stores.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Gringo180

VinLieger wrote: »

No its not, there is no race to the bottom, unemployment numbers are down, wages are going up and very close to being back to pre-crash levels

Wages arent going up to match the cost of living.

VinLieger

Wanderer78 wrote: »

All those political and economic commentators must be wrong then!

Please give examples of non bias(ie. not julien mercille, rory hearne etc) and respected economic commentators that are saying there's a race to the bottom.

The luas drivers used the same stupid catchphrase while still being offered a raise except it just wasn't a big enough raise. Newsflash being offered more money is not a race to the bottom.

I get the Tesco workers are on a contracts but those contracts are literally from a different millenia, that's how old they are, they in no way relate to the current economy or business model or needs of Tesco today. And right now Tesco ireland is pretty fvcked as its being squeezed out of the market

The real solution to all of this is a universal basic income however unions are against this progress too as it will effectively make them a redundant idea.