The Rape of Lucretia wrote: » The problem with the UCD workshops, was people had to give their consent to go to them. I presume it was for men only. Perhaps they should not have been allowed to have to consent to attend. But should have been compelled.
Widdershins wrote: » General survival skills, yes! Also known as having ''a bit of cop-on'' in Limerick! I also want to add that if replacing a top or a pair of jeans or whatever clothing is cheaper than mending it, I'd love to know where people are buying their clothes. Or maybe I wouldn't! As for cooking, there's lots of ways to learn, from the internet to people like Jamie Oliver who's still relatively young, and fairly interesting to watch.
py2006 wrote: » Oh please somebody share this with LON...
The classes were announced following an investigation launched by UCD into allegations of group of UCD students sharing nude photos of fellow students without their permission. While the allegations were found to be false, UCDSU prioritised consent classes as part of a wider #NotAskingForIt campaign.
The SU report that no difference has been made to the attendance depending on the level of promotion, the only significant factor being that high levels of promotion attracted trolling.
RabbleRouser2k wrote: » 'I'm forcing you to attend these consent classes, and you cannot say 'no' because I won't listen, and will have to do it'. '...I don't consent to that...' '...Okay, first class-consent means 'No means No'...' Can you see how 'forcing' someone to attend consent classes just completely defeats every single reason 'why' one would hold those classes? Also, those classes were by the SU-the college had no involvement with them, and despite the Tanaiste asking em to fund them (despite no additional funding being provided) they pretty much wanted nothing to do with it. They just rang of so much SJW-ing (a word that applies in this case) that it was more pointless than a condom machine in the vatican.
ivytwine wrote: » Very interesting posts the last few days. I firmly believe that in general, the scumbags roaring and behaving aggressively towards women are the same towards men. They just vary their insults depending on gender. First thing I thought of as well. I'm in partial agreement. I don't want to give the article another click but I am not sure she said she was a direct victim of sexual assault. It is very hard to talk about publicly, and even Louise O'Neill herself seemed more reticent than usual when she disclosed it. It's a bit like Lena Dunham's "I wish I had an abortion" comment. Which brings me onto... Not only that, but I do hope she cleared with her friend who was gang-raped that it was ok to mention it in the article. I imagine as Waterford is a small place a gang-rape victim would be swiftly identified. I know if someone disclosed my own assault to the media I'd be furious.
Unfortunately for people educated in English lit etc, twisting literature and popular culture has become as factual as actual research in their eyes.
I was listening to an excellent podcast called In The Dark, which went into detail about the hysteria around child abuse, and illustrated how things got so extreme in America- but again, that's America.
lazybones32 wrote: » lol. At the age of 18, any man or woman can legally die for this Country but you don't want them educated unless they go to a consent class? They are adults and Citizens of this Country with the same rights as the rest of us. Would you be in favour of consent classes if every adult had to take them?
RabbleRouser2k wrote: » Sorry to hear you suffered through something like that-I cannot imagine how horrible that must have been Oh God yeah, there is a great movie by HBO-Indictment: The Mcmartin Trial. It details a real life story where the McMartin's, who ran a preschool/ Kindergarten, were accused of child abuse. They were accused of running a paedphile ring, in an underground basement, which had an underground labyrinth that ran all over the state...yes, the story became more and more elaborate because the kids were being coached by a psychologist who should have known better. Some of the stories-there were even allegations of a spaceship and aliens (Seriously, the kids story was so bizarre-and people, grown adults, were believing them). Even when one of the kids in the witness box, when called to identify paedophiles, pointed to photos of 'Chuck Norris' and a dead US senator...yeah, the story still was believed. Some adults got so incensed with how long the case was taking, they tried to tunnel under the preschool to uncover the labyrinth. Yeah, they found nothing-probably a sewer pipe, that's it. Too small to fit through. Movie stars folks like JAmes Woods, Henry Thomas and Mercedes Ruehl. One of the most bizarre through stories ever.
The Rape of Lucretia wrote: » Well certainly not. Only the men. Women dont need such classes, obvs. There has to be a drive in society to change the prevailing view that rape is all fine and dandy, that any woman is fair game, and is really just playing a hard-to-get game. So many neanderthals out there think rape is just the way of the world - or worse, dont even realise that forcing a woman to have coitus is rape, that it is wrong, that it violates her rights, and that they shouldnt be doing it any more. If positive discrimination, and compulsory consent courses are the way to correct this deviant behaviour, of which all men are, or at least potentially, guilty, then so be it.
lazybones32 wrote: » Do you genuinely believe what you've written or are you being sarcastic/trolling? Your reply reads like every anti-man blog on the web and I want to be sure you're serious before replying (which I'll do tomorrow).
ivytwine wrote: » I remember reading about that. Unbelievable stuff. In The Dark concerns the Jacob Wetterling case. He was a boy who was kidnapped and murdered in 1989, his body was only found last year. The perpetrator had sexually assaulted kids in the area for years. This led to a sex offenders register, and lots of extreme panic and punitive measures. But as the podcast points out, most abuse/rape is not stranger danger. And the real reason his killer went free was the very poor performance of the local police department. Even Jacob's mother thinks the laws have gone too far. I'd strongly recommend the series. Ah thank you, I'm generally ok- not the same as I was prior but that's alright now. TBH while I'm ok with talking about it here with an admittedly thin veil of anonymity, I'm very cautious about disclosing to it people I know in real life. One or two have been not able to handle it. On the consent classes, I think my problem with it is: university is too late, and not everyone goes to third level. I'm in favour of exploring this in an age appropriate manner with younger kids; teaching them it's ok to say no to contact that feels uncomfortable, and that if someone tells you to leave them alone, you should do so. Do teachers get trained in looking out for vulnerable kids or situations that might be a bit off? Because unfortunately paedophiles are masters at finding vulnerable kids.
ivytwine wrote: » On the consent classes, I think my problem with it is: university is too late, and not everyone goes to third level. I'm in favour of exploring this in an age appropriate manner with younger kids; teaching them it's ok to say no to contact that feels uncomfortable, and that if someone tells you to leave them alone, you should do so.
Do teachers get trained in looking out for vulnerable kids or situations that might be a bit off? Because unfortunately paedophiles are masters at finding vulnerable kids.
johnnyskeleton wrote: » Yes this is already taught to every kid. Its called growing up. Say what?
RabbleRouser2k wrote: » It's a disturbing case-great movie tho. I'd imagine, with an almost 30 year gap between the murder and the discovery of the body, that such a case was incredibly difficult to prove-so of course, when those in authority have messed up their job, they pull a bait and switch. Incite panic, make people go hysterical, and then boom, they don't notice you suck at your job. The laws against stranger danger has become ridiculous-complete agreement there. And even if we don't have those laws here in Ireland, there's sort of a 'moral' policing, tbh.
RabbleRouser2k wrote: » No-no it's fine. IF you did wanna talk about it, either Pm me or whatever, I'm a good listener. A few of my friends, male and female, have gone through different forms of bullying, sexual violence or domestic abuse. Either molested and raped as children by their dad, abused in an industrial school, raped by a stranger, or attacked by school mates. The best lesson I heard was from a person who survived abuse in Industrial School-'the important thing to remember, was it wasn't our fault'. I think those who find that the hardest to come to terms with struggle the most. I think people who think 'humanity is perfect' are often the one's who don't cope very well with those dark revelations.
RabbleRouser2k wrote: » I had a similar situation with my revealing my mental health struggles-some friends are like 'oh, everyone has to take something' and are totally supportive, others are a little more 'closed' I feel. There is a fear, tbh. I do resent how media represents it-people view it as a choice, or the 'embrace feminism/ don't kill yourself etc' that was promoted by RTE just makes things FAR worse. I remember seeing folks doing the facebook 'Speakout' hashtag regarding suicide awareness-then seeing the irony of people who I vividly remember bullying the crap out of me and others in secondary school, contributing to their Mental health problems, spreading that 'tag'. I doubt even they realise the scale of the problem, or how much a part of it they are to many I know.
RabbleRouser2k wrote: » Honestly, I remember in primary school getting the consent classes in 4th class-and it was co-educational, so the boys and girls heard the same lessons. We even had that 'I know when something is safe' song by Pajo (remember him?) and others. Like, people got those classes really young-but now in third level, it seems completely redundant. (And apparently, the video I saw as a kid, was still in use as of 2010-so even that campaign is dated). The way it was taught to kids versus the way third wavers want to teach it is not too dissimilar-though there is probably far more emphasis on the 'men are totally at fault, always' with them.
johnnyskeleton wrote: » Yes this is already taught to every kid. Its called growing up.
johnnyskeleton wrote: » Consent classes are not about telling people who were previously unaware that doing something to another person against their will is wrong. They are, in their mildest form, a reminder that it is wrong like those ads on dvds that tell us piracy is a crime. At the other end of the scale, consent classes could be taught by people who dont understand the legal definition properly. The people giving the classes say they do so because there is so much mistaken belief in relation to what consent is. But how do we know that their version of consent is correct either? If they had criminal lawyers explaining complicated issues like the Morgan and Linekar rules it might be useful, but thats not really on the agenda because those - probably correct decisions - are off point on the women are always victims narrative. Unfortunately, in the same way that the anti piracy ads are on legitimate dvds but not I assume on pirate dvds, stuff like consent classes which teach the basic message that non consensual sex is wrong simply dont reach the people who either dont know that rape is wrong or else know it but dont care.
johnnyskeleton wrote: » Say what?
RabbleRouser2k wrote: » I'd imagine teachers are too busy grading tests, teaching classes, assigning homework, and filling in forms relating to the children with aspergers/ autism/ dyslexia or other disabilities to even notice if a kid is being abused or molested. Look how many teachers completely missed/ignored the many kids who died due to malnourishment and abuse in the home. Teachers have too many kids to oversee-they aren't gonna have the time to spot a kid being molested or abused. It's horrible to say, but it's just life. Forgot to mention-the withdrawal of the classes were discussed at the tail end of Vincent B. tonight.
ivytwine wrote: » Do teachers get trained in looking out for vulnerable kids or situations that might be a bit off? Because unfortunately paedophiles are masters at finding vulnerable kids.
FishOnABike wrote: » Poe's law - An internet adage that states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers or viewers as a sincere expression of the parodied views.
RabbleRouser2k wrote: » Yep, keep in mind, we live in a world where extreme feminist and writer for the Guardian Julie Bindel, a woman who describes herself as a 'political lesbian', wants to put men in camps. And then they can be 'checked out' like books from a library. So it's hard to discern parody sometimes.
Widdershins wrote: » Yes, they do. They are also obliged to report such concerns to TUSLA.
ivytwine wrote: » I just googled political lesbianism and bloody hell my brain was better off without knowing about it. It's an insult to everyone, gay and straight.
ivytwine wrote: » Tusla aren't an agency I'd trust too much at present. I'm sure things are better now than the 90s though unfortunately things do get missed.
lazybones32 wrote: » I have a lot of teachers in my extended family and the ones that I've asked about it, say that reporting is a waste of time. The official system moves too slowly and does little to nothing in the end. The Social workers who were assigned to look into each case didn't act. They took notes, asked questions, wrote reports blah blah blah. Nothing changed for the child.
homerjay2005 wrote: » i think alcohol abuse in young men and woman should be the first target for them, if they are running seminars and courses. if you get people drinking sensibly (and im talking about both sexes here) then alot of the grey areas around consents disappear.
