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2016-17 UEFA Champions League

citytillidie

Yes it is that time again

Draw for 1st and 2nd Qualifying Rounds are on Monday at 11am.

1st Round
Seeds
The New Saints (WAL)
Valletta FC (MLT)
Flora Tallinn (EST)
FC Santa Coloma (AND)

Unseeded
B36 Torshavn (FAR)
Lincoln Red Imps (GIB)
Alashkert FC (ARM)
Tre Penne (SMA)

2nd Round
Seeds
FC Salzburg (AUT)
Celtic FC (SCO)
APOEL Nicosia (CYP)
BATE Borisov (BLS)
Legia Warsaw(POL)
Dinamo Zargreb (CRO)
Ludogorets Razgrad (BUL)
FC København (DEN)
Garabag Agdam (AZB)
Rosenborg BK (NOR)
FK Astana (KAZ)
Sheriff Tiraspol (MOL)
Red Star Belgrade (SRB)
Dinamo Tbilisi (GEO)
FH Hafnarfjardar (ISL)
AS Trencín (SVK)
Winners of match with The New Saints

Unseeded
F91 Dudelange (LUX)
Zalgiris Vilnius (LIT)
Hapoel Beer-Sheva (ISR)
Olimpija Ljubljana (SLO)
Winners of match with Valletta FC
Vardar Skopje (MAC)
IFK Norrköping (SWE)
Ferencváros (HUN)
Crusaders Belfast (NIR)
Winners of game with Flora Tallinn
Zrinjski Mostar (BOS)
Winners of game with FC Santa Coloma
Dundalk (IRL)
Mladost Podgorica (MON)
SJK Seinäjoki (FIN)
Partizani Tirana (ALB)* TBC
FK Liepaja (LAT)

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Dirty Dingus McGee

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Dunphy writing Messi off, yet again.

He's averaging a goal a game this season.He had one really **** game that's all it was, he's been unbelievably good this season apart from last night.

MisterAnarchy

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He's averaging a goal a game this season.He had one really **** game that's all it was, he's been unbelievably good this season apart from last night.

Agreed.
He seems to have a bad attitude in the away champions league games over the last couple of years though, looks disinterested and lazy.

Wenger said his players got mentally jaded after the second goal.
Mentally jaded, sounds like something you'd say about school kids....

JaMarcusHustle

Just look at Arsenal's record in the last 16 round of the Champions league in recent years - the first legs in particular.

2017: Lost 5-1 away to Bayern
2016: Lost 2-0 home to Barcelona
2015: Lost 3-1 home to Monaco
2014: Lost 2-0 home to Bayern
2013: Lost 3-1 home to Bayern
2012: Lost 4-0 away to Milan

What ever happened to a cautious, cagey first leg? They're not giving themselves a chance in the second leg of any of these games.

Dirty Dingus McGee

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Just look at Arsenal's record in the last 16 round of the Champions league in recent years - the first legs in particular.

2017: Lost 5-1 away to Bayern
2016: Lost 2-0 home to Barcelona
2015: Lost 3-1 home to Monaco
2014: Lost 2-0 home to Bayern
2013: Lost 3-1 home to Bayern
2012: Lost 4-0 away to Milan

What ever happened to a cautious, cagey first leg? They're not giving themselves a chance in the second leg of any of these games.

4 of those losses have come at home which is really embarrassing you at least expect a couple of results in those home game and in the 2 away games they've been beaten by 4 goals in each.It's a truly terrible record.

KaiserGunner

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Just look at Arsenal's record in the last 16 round of the Champions league in recent years - the first legs in particular.

2017: Lost 5-1 away to Bayern
2016: Lost 2-0 home to Barcelona
2015: Lost 3-1 home to Monaco
2014: Lost 2-0 home to Bayern
2013: Lost 3-1 home to Bayern
2012: Lost 4-0 away to Milan

What ever happened to a cautious, cagey first leg? They're not giving themselves a chance in the second leg of any of these games.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

4 of those losses have come at home which is really embarrassing you at least expect a couple of results in those home game and in the 2 away games they've been beaten by 4 goals in each.It's a truly terrible record.

Us Arsenal fans have known of this record for ages and how we have been beaten by the first leg, was the one thing I wanted today, was to be still in the tie after the first leg. Yet we are called fickle etc, even though we are putting up with the same crap season in season out.

Flint Fredstone

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Xhaka is an awful player. 35m for a lad that does nothing but consistently foul?

He'll score from 500 yards out every few months and get a red card every few weeks. Other than that you won't hear much about him.

KaiserGunner

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

He'll score from 500 yards out every few months and get a red card every few weeks. Other than that you won't hear much about him.

I agree, but sure for an extra £52m or so you can get all that minus the red cards and a couple of dabs thrown in on top.

764dak

Next week's matches seem kinda lame.

Giggsy11

Coq won 0 tackles and completed just 6 passes in 77 mins. That's atrocious.

mansize

Surely Chelsea would take Kos, unless their CBs have suddenly improved beyond recognition???

Turtwig

mansize wrote: »

Surely Chelsea would take Kos, unless their CBs have suddenly improved beyond recognition???

Think many a club would take kos.

KaiserGunner

mansize wrote: »

Surely Chelsea would take Kos, unless their CBs have suddenly improved beyond recognition???

What has this got to do with anything? Why would Arsenal sell their best (only competent) centre back to Chelsea?

Jelle1880

KaiserGunner wrote: »

What has this got to do with anything? Why would Arsenal sell their best (only competent) centre back to Chelsea?

Because it's not just up to them ? If Koscielny could be tempted by Chelsea there won't be too much Arsenal can do about it.

sReq | uTeK

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Because it's not just up to them ? If Koscielny could be tempted by Chelsea there won't be too much Arsenal can do about it.

Correct, people think clubs hold the power, but its players by and large. Yes clubs with stupid amounts of money can send someone down to the reserves to rot, but by in large clubs are run by businessmen not managers.

If a player is kicking up a fuss and is worth a lot of money the club has two options.

Sell and Cash in and replace
Let him rot in the reserves and go on a free.
Either way the club loses and the player ultimately gains. If he is left to rot he will normally find a club for a large signing on fee, if hes left rot for a period of time and then sold the club has lost money. There is also the bad publicity element and the disconnect it could cause within the team.

You have players routinely signing contracts with clubs just so the club gets a bit more money for them. I mean look at the case in point of Griezman (SP). He's just signed a 5 year deal with Madrid in the summer, we all know it's a farce and the likelyhood is he will be gone in the summer. But look he gets a bumper pay rise for a year, these wages then get increased again by a factor of x when he joins a new club. It's a lot easier for a player to negotiate up to 250k+ when they're on 120k as apposed to 50k.. And the club get a nice new buyout clause that pays the wages and then some to replace.

However, ultimately I'd love to see clubs enforce contracts. I'd love to see clubs leave players in the reserves and set a precedent that if you don't break your bollix for the team you can go swan it somewhere in the doldrums. It would make the game better and would take the power away from the players (which I think they have too much of) and give it back to the clubs.

KaiserGunner

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Because it's not just up to them ? If Koscielny could be tempted by Chelsea there won't be too much Arsenal can do about it.

Yeah my issue with his post was the randomness of it. As far as I know Koscielny hasn't been linked with Chelsea, just seemed like a throwaway comment with absolutely no relevance.

GavRedKing

mansize wrote: »

Surely Chelsea would take Kos, unless their CBs have suddenly improved beyond recognition???

If we're cherry picking Arsenal players, it would be Sanchez, then Bellerin I'd take before Koscielny.

None of the baove three though will cross the divide so its really a moot argument.

mansize

The Golden Miller wrote: »

From a Bayern perspective going forward, their players would genuinely fear playing the likes of Ingolstadt and Darmstadt more than Arsenal at this stage. It's sad that Arsenal have become such an international joke

I think the emotive language gives the game away.

They play UCL year in year out. They are far from an international(? intercontinental ?) joke

mansize

GavRedKing wrote: »

mansize wrote: »

Surely Chelsea would take Kos, unless their CBs have suddenly improved beyond recognition???

If we're cherry picking Arsenal players, it would be Sanchez, then Bellerin I'd take before Koscielny.

None of the baove three though will cross the divide so its really a moot argument.

All things are. If I was Chelsea manager I'd see Kos as the greatest need of the three. Sanchez could prove difficult to manage with bigger stars about. No love for Özil?

mansize

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Way too much talk on both RTE and BT about lack of character, lack of fight and lack of leaders. All of that might be true but neither channel has pinpointed just how woeful Arsenal are tactically, particularly when they get shown up by the big teams.

This.

Some very ordinary players at Arsenal. Take sanchez out of it and how many would make the other top 6 teams automatically. Kochelney? (all bar Chelsea) Ozil? (if he had his head right). Nobody else is top bracket, would be decent squad players at the top level but many would fit in grand at Stoke or Everton and not stand out IMHO.

This is the post I was defending Kos over

mansize

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Because it's not just up to them ? If Koscielny could be tempted by Chelsea there won't be too much Arsenal can do about it.

Yeah my issue with his post was the randomness of it. As far as I know Koscielny hasn't been linked with Chelsea, just seemed like a throwaway comment with absolutely no relevance.

It wasn't random it was replying to a post

Dirty Dingus McGee

SlickRic wrote: »

Arsenal will beat Bayern IMO.

:D:D:D

GavRedKing

mansize wrote: »

All things are. If I was Chelsea manager I'd see Kos as the greatest need of the three. Sanchez could prove difficult to manage with bigger stars about. No love for Özil?

We couldnt afford the luxury of Ozil in 3-4-3, its the same reason Cesc doesnt start for us. Sanchez would be a fantasy signing to add depth to the RW slot but I just cant see Arsenal selling any of their star players to any English side no matter what the price.

Kos is better than Cahill but given his age profile, even if he did come on the market, I dont think we'd go for him, he'll be 32 shortly after the next season starts, slightly older than both our current CBs.

It does though, make an interesting proposal to what Conte will do with Cahill in the summer, hes got Zouma, Ake and Christensen all to accomodate and I wouldnt be surprised to see a new CB brought in the summer and at least 1 of the above sold.

jacool

GavRedKing wrote: »

I just cant see Arsenal selling any of their star players to any English side no matter what the price.

Ashley Cole
Samir Nasri
Emmanuel Adebayor
Kolo Toure
Gael Clichy
Robin Van Persie
There's always a price, and if Wenger goes, no players will have to show loyalty to the new manager.

beakerjoe

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

:D:D:D

To be fair, at 45 minutes gone, it wasnt so far fetched. Arsenal could have been 2-1 up before half time had they taken their chances.

But yeah they imploded emphatically as soon as the 2nd goal went in. When Ozil isn't in a game, it's like Arsenal are down to ten men

GavRedKing

jacool wrote: »

Ashley Cole
Samir Nasri
Emmanuel Adebayor
Kolo Toure
Gael Clichy
Robin Van Persie
There's always a price, and if Wenger goes, no players will have to show loyalty to the new manager.

Of course, it happened in the past but if they get in the right manager in the summer and he can convince the best players to stay, they're sorted.

I think they stand to lose the better players if Wenger stays, Ozil and Sanchez are in the prime of their careers and may want to win more trophies before its too late, as it stands, thats not with Arsenal, FA cup excluded.

KaiserGunner

jacool wrote: »

Ashley Cole
Samir Nasri
Emmanuel Adebayor
Kolo Toure
Gael Clichy
Robin Van Persie
There's always a price, and if Wenger goes, no players will have to show loyalty to the new manager.

All pre 2013 which is when the club have become financially sound and actually loosened the purse strings a bit, with the signing of Ozil which blew the previous transfer record on an Arsenal buy.

I'd hope the club nowadays wouldn't be stupid to sell players to direct rivals, but to a club abroad instead. It's not like they need the money. If Sanchez is sold to anyone in the premier league I'd be fuming.

Still to this day can't believe that Wenger sanctioned the sale of Van Persie to Man Utd, that was the one sale on that list that hurt, the others were meh.

inforfun

jacool wrote: »

Ashley Cole
Samir Nasri
Emmanuel Adebayor
Kolo Toure
Gael Clichy
Robin Van Persie
There's always a price, and if Wenger goes, no players will have to show loyalty to the new manager.

Different times with the new stadium just openend.
Those were selling years, not €45 million player buying years.
Arsenal are where they are because they dont spent isnt a valid argument nowadays.

[Deleted User]

Bellerin hasn't been excellent this season.

mansize

I thought Wenger strongly resisted that sale. The board basically overruled him

jmayo

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Yeah it's amazing when you think about it. Back in May 2006 Arsenal were 15 mins away from their first ever European cup and thus matching the Mighty Barcelona in European cups won. Obviously Barcelona won it in the end winning their second European cup.

Just goes to show the fortunes on the pitch since. Barcelona are this European juggernaut with multiple European cups since and Arsenal are regularly ridiculed about their European pedigree. A decade is a long time in football.

Arsenal never have been a major player in Europe and really have no historical pedigree in Europe.
Hell Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest have won more major European trophies.

KaiserGunner wrote: »

...
Still to this day can't believe that Wenger sanctioned the sale of Van Persie to Man Utd, that was the one sale on that list that hurt, the others were meh.

But didn't Arsenal get Silvestre from united.:D
Ok I know t was free transfer.

And to show how screwed up Wenger's thinking has been for a very long time, he actually went out of his way to offer Silvestre a contract. :mad:
For some reason Arsene has a thing for gutless players prone to making mistakes.