Cyclists mega-thread (WARNING: Before posting you must read post #1)

jive wrote: »

Not using lights on your bike should be a straight forward fine but it's not enforced. I don't see how anyone can argue against using lights and it should be enforced.

The above regarding headphones is just daft, however. Will they issue a ban on deaf people cycling or just give them an on the spot fine of €40 every time they catch a deaf person on a bike?

I'd go further and say a Garda should confiscate a bike from a cyclist he catches cycling at night with no lights! When they turn up at the station to collect their bike (and pay the fixed penalty notice) the next day, they don't get the bike back until they fit lights. Introducing fines and then not enforcing the rules is a total waste of time and effort!

BlinkingLights

High visibility stuff generally works better when it's actually dark and headlights are bouncing off it. The problem is that in urban areas it's usually more dusky with orange street lighting and you don't stand out at all.

Alf Veedersane

wtlltw wrote: »

Drove behind a cyclist tonight with no lights. Pulled up to them at the lights and told them they should get some lights. She swung her courier type bag and showed me her back light and called me something childish. She turned back round and cycled off with her bag blocking her light again. At least the high viz would have least made her stand out.

Some lights are pitiful.

I still remember the night I was heading down the quays and realised how little extra visibility the high vis jackets afford. I always wear mine because it's better than my black jacket.

Lights are more important but so many seem to think that having things that qualify as lights is enough and don't actively think about ensuring they have equipment that protects them.

First Up wrote: »

Only if they think its a good idea to be invisible.

Well that's obviously not the reason.

wtlltw

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I also think a lot of people think wearing a high vis makes them stand out like a beacon. Better than nothing but no substitute for lights.

Drove behind a cyclist tonight with no lights. Pulled up to them at the lights and told them they should get some lights. She swung her courier type bag and showed me her back light and called me something childish. She turned back round and cycled off with her bag blocking her light again. At least the high viz would have least made her stand out.

BlinkingLights

I'm seeing quite a few of these around Cork City too. It's really dangerous as you literally don't see them at all sometimes until you're practically on top of them and your headlights catch their pedal reflectors.

There's just a complete lack of any kind of cyclist education going on at the moment. If you're out on a road at night, at the very least you should be carrying one of those reflective sashes in your pocket so you can ensure you're highly visible and working lights should be legally require and enforced. If you don't have them, the Garda should simply put your bike in the boot and you pay a fine to get it back.

Also some of those lights that are mounted on the back of helmets and so on are really confusing. You need a properly bright red light positioned in the correct place on the back of the bike so that it looks like a bike and isn't flickering all over the place. When it's on your head, every time you turn your head, it disappears out of view to drivers and may not immediately look like another vehicle on the road from a distance.

As for batteries, didn't we all used to have dynamos at one stage?? Shouldn't need to change the battery, it's being topped up all the time as you cycle if you've the right setup...

jive

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, sorry. I didn't realise you knew, 100% factually the reason behind every cyclist not having lights on their bikes. My apologies.

Can we wrap this thread up folks, Lapierre sorted it for us.

It's true though. People just can't be arsed 1) buying lights 2) replacing batteries. They don't care because it's not enforced, the same can be said for motorists not using indicators or parking wherever they want as long as they throw their hazard lights on.

jive

07Lapierre wrote: »

"Donohoe said while the new system did not create any new specific offence dealing with those who wear headphones, the ‘cycling without reasonable consideration’ provision could be applied.

It means members of the Garda now have discretion in deciding whether cyclists are putting their own safety and that of other road users at risk by using headphones."

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/gardai-now-have-power-to-fine-cyclists-wearing-earphones/

Not using lights on your bike should be a straight forward fine but it's not enforced. I don't see how anyone can argue against using lights and it should be enforced.

The above regarding headphones is just daft, however. Will they issue a ban on deaf people cycling or just give them an on the spot fine of €40 every time they catch a deaf person on a bike?

[Deleted User]

07Lapierre wrote: »

nah, people don't have lights on their bikes at night because their lazy and/or stupid! it has nothing to do with the convenience or inconvenience of lights.

Oh, sorry. I didn't realise you knew, 100% factually the reason behind every cyclist not having lights on their bikes. My apologies.

Can we wrap this thread up folks, Lapierre sorted it for us.

First Up

amcalester wrote:

Just pointing out a possible reason why so many cyclists think it is OK to cycle without lights.

Only if they think its a good idea to be invisible.

First Up wrote: »

Not sure what is your point. Lights on a car help the driver see where they are going but they also help oncoming traffic see you. An unlit dark coloured car can be hard to spot even in lit-up urban areas and especially in bad weather.

A front light on a bike only marginally helps you see where you going but far more importantly it helps others see you.

Just pointing out a possible reason why so many cyclists think it is OK to cycle without lights.

First Up

amcalester wrote:

That's not to defend them at all, they should have lights but lights on a bike serve a different purpose than lights on a car.

Not sure what is your point. Lights on a car help the driver see where they are going but they also help oncoming traffic see you. An unlit dark coloured car can be hard to spot even in lit-up urban areas and especially in bad weather.

A front light on a bike only marginally helps you see where you going but far more importantly it helps others see you.

Macy0161 wrote: »

All the hi viz is basically the RSA being seen to do something. Lights seem way down their promotional agenda, after builders jackets and helmets, which is wrong. So it's easy, imo, to see why some people think that it is enough.

I do think that a hi-vis should be a mandatory item for a cyclist but that's a whole other topic. Front and rear lights on the other hand are legally required along with a front and rear reflector. The amount of cyclists without this basic requirement is farcical.

Macy0161 wrote: »

A cyclist should provide their own equipment - that should be decent lights. If they want reflective detail, and most cycling (and running) clothing has this already anyway, they'd be better with ankle bands rather than something on their torso.

Unless its cycle team spandex i find that most cycle clothing is plain black. Some do have retroflective stripes or bands but they are only useful when light shines onto them.

Macy0161 wrote: »

Between people not bothering to put on full lights, having bulbs out (both front and rear), unnecessarily bright bulbs, and poorly aligned lights I wouldn't see much difference in the two groups to be honest. If you don't notice you haven't got a front bulb out, even in an urban setting, imo you're not paying enough attention.

I completely agree...id estimate a good 30%-40% of vehicle on the road have some sort of defective lighting albeit in the front or rear. It is completely unacceptable and these drivers should be issued with on the spot fines...per issue. The bottom line is if you can afford to drive you can afford to replace a set of bulbs. no excuse. The same can be said about cyclists who choose to use lights...some have a white lights on the back (making it look like they are traveling on the wrong side of the road), some have crap lights that can barely be seen(probably from the RSA), some have great lights but need to change the batteries to perform better...and so on.

All that aside, its extremely rare to see a vehicle with set out deliberately and complete a full journey with no lighting at all on the road at night. The same cannot be said about cyclists...at the moment.

Deleted User wrote: »

Not always, no. Not everywhere I go is it well received to have a handful of bike lights. If people would stop interfering with other people's stuff in the first place it wouldn't be an issue.

I'm just throwing out a theory as to why some people might not have lights on the bikes.

nah, people don't have lights on their bikes at night because their lazy and/or stupid! it has nothing to do with the convenience or inconvenience of lights.

First Up wrote: »

No, but you were a lot more easily seen.

Absolutely.

What I meant was that lights often do nothing to improve the cyclists visibility which is probably why so many don't bother using any.

That's not to defend them at all, they should have lights but lights on a bike serve a different purpose than lights on a car.

Macy0161

Roadhawk wrote: »

They clearly feel there is a need to try provide this safety equipment. To be honest they shouldn't have to give out any safety items for free. A cyclist, being a responsible road user, should purchase their own equipment...particularly front the rear lights if they are traveling in the dark.
With the RSA attempting to provide this equipment it only opens the door to criticism of the quality of the item.

All the hi viz is basically the RSA being seen to do something. Lights seem way down their promotional agenda, after builders jackets and helmets, which is wrong. So it's easy, imo, to see why some people think that it is enough.

A cyclist should provide their own equipment - that should be decent lights. If they want reflective detail, and most cycling (and running) clothing has this already anyway, they'd be better with ankle bands rather than something on their torso.

Roadhawk wrote: »

In general, some people driving during the day with headlights on and for those who dont they will turn them on around dusk...give or take a half hour or so. Im aware that a motorist must have their lights on during lighting up hours which is usually when the street light are on. For the best part, the vast majority would have their lights on at this point.

Between people not bothering to put on full lights, having bulbs out (both front and rear), unnecessarily bright bulbs, and poorly aligned lights I wouldn't see much difference in the two groups to be honest. If you don't notice you haven't got a front bulb out, even in an urban setting, imo you're not paying enough attention.

First Up

amcalester wrote:

Not 1 car flashed their lights at me but i'm sure loads would have if I was driving.

They probably assumed you didn't have any.

amcalester wrote:

I didn't see any better with the lights on though, which is not the case when driving.

No, but you were a lot more easily seen.

[Deleted User]

07Lapierre wrote: »

:eek: What? do you not have Pockets?, a backpack?...

Not always, no. Not everywhere I go is it well received to have a handful of bike lights. If people would stop interfering with other people's stuff in the first place it wouldn't be an issue.

I'm just throwing out a theory as to why some people might not have lights on the bikes.

Roadhawk wrote: »

There are cases when a motorist will start a journey with no lights on when its pitch black out but you can be guaranteed that most other motorist who see this will beckon them to turn on their lights. I cant imagine this happening with cyclists...

I was thinking the same recently, I left for work on the bike at my usual time of 7am, so quite dark, and I forgot to turn on my lights. It wasn't until I was stopped at a set of traffic lights that I noticed my lights were off.

Not 1 car flashed their lights at me but i'm sure loads would have if I was driving.

I didn't see any better with the lights on though, which is not the case when driving.

Macy0161 wrote: »

The hi viz they hand out even has "be safe be seen" plastered on it. When they have given out lights, the ones I've been given are really crap lights which were barely any use as secondary lights!

They clearly feel there is a need to try provide this safety equipment. To be honest they shouldn't have to give out any safety items for free. A cyclist, being a responsible road user, should purchase their own equipment...particularly front the rear lights if they are traveling in the dark.
With the RSA attempting to provide this equipment it only opens the door to criticism of the quality of the item.

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm not so sure - plenty of people driving cars, particularly at dusk, don't bother with lights when all they've got to do is turn a switch (or even more illogically, go to the bother of turning on parking lights (and I mean parking lights, not daytime running lights).
I don't think any road user group is immune from some of their number thinking just because they can see, that it means everyone else can see them.

In general, some people driving during the day with headlights on and for those who dont they will turn them on around dusk...give or take a half hour or so. Im aware that a motorist must have their lights on during lighting up hours which is usually when the street light are on. For the best part, the vast majority would have their lights on at this point. There are cases when a motorist will start a journey with no lights on when its pitch black out but you can be guaranteed that most other motorist who see this will beckon them to turn on their lights. I cant imagine this happening with cyclists...there are quite a lot of cyclists who knowingly start a journey with no lighting or reflectors installed on their bike in the dark of night. there is no excuse for this...it doesn't matter what way you look at it, its still irresponsible, negligent and downright idiotic.

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm not so sure - plenty of people driving cars, particularly at dusk, don't bother with lights when all they've got to do is turn a switch (or even more illogically, go to the bother of turning on parking lights (and I mean parking lights, not daytime running lights)).

I don't think any road user group is immune from some of their number thinking just because they can see, that it means everyone else can see them.

Yeah you may be right but apart from motorists with blown bulbs I think in most cases if a motorist is driving with their lights off or just their parking lights on its either because they've forgotten to turn them on or don't know the difference rather than thinking everyone else can see them.

Macy0161

07Lapierre wrote: »

Couldn't agree more! and the RSA and Gardai handing out free Hi-Viz only adds to this notion!

The hi viz they hand out even has "be safe be seen" plastered on it.

When they have given out lights, the ones I've been given are really crap lights which were barely any use as secondary lights!

amcalester wrote:

I would wager that of all the cyclists without lights the majority are not motorists and just don't realise how difficult it is to see an unlit cyclist.

I'm not so sure - plenty of people driving cars, particularly at dusk, don't bother with lights when all they've got to do is turn a switch (or even more illogically, go to the bother of turning on parking lights (and I mean parking lights, not daytime running lights)).

I don't think any road user group is immune from some of their number thinking just because they can see, that it means everyone else can see them.

Roadhawk wrote: »

I dont think they would have the space to store the amount of bikes if they were to enforce that.

The only bikes that are not reclaimed are either stolen or possible just BSO's which could be given to charity or reccycled if not claimed. Combined with the on-the spot fine, it wouldn't cost anything to run and the Gardai would be more likely to enforce it, as they don't have to worry about people giving false names/addresses etc.

https://www.facebook.com/rebikeireland/

07Lapierre wrote: »

I'd love to see the Gardai confiscating bikes from cyclists who are cycling at night with no lights!

I dont think they would have the space to store the amount of bikes if they were to enforce that.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I also think a lot of people think wearing a high vis makes them stand out like a beacon. Better than nothing but no substitute for lights.

Couldn't agree more! and the RSA and Gardai handing out free Hi-Viz only adds to this notion!

I'd love to see the Gardai confiscating bikes from cyclists who are cycling at night with no lights!

Alf Veedersane

amcalester wrote: »

Enforcement is definitely an issue but I think that ignorance on the cyclists part plays a large part too.

I would wager that of all the cyclists without lights the majority are not motorists and just don't realise how difficult it is to see an unlit cyclist.

I also think a lot of people think wearing a high vis makes them stand out like a beacon. Better than nothing but no substitute for lights.

Roadhawk wrote: »

I thought Pascal Donohoe mentioned something back in 2015 about cyclists wearing earphones could be fined €40 under - Riding a bicycle without reasonable consideration?

"Donohoe said while the new system did not create any new specific offence dealing with those who wear headphones, the ‘cycling without reasonable consideration’ provision could be applied.

It means members of the Garda now have discretion in deciding whether cyclists are putting their own safety and that of other road users at risk by using headphones."

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/gardai-now-have-power-to-fine-cyclists-wearing-earphones/

Deleted User wrote: »

It's what makes them so easy to steal (mind you, i got ones before that you needed a screwdriver to get on and off and they were still stolen).

Maybe I was just unintentionally locking in a bad area, but it seems a common theme.

Carrying bike lights around with you everywhere isn't practical, unfortunately.

:eek: What? do you not have Pockets?, a backpack?...

magicbastarder

Roadhawk wrote: »

I thought Pascal Donohoe mentioned something back in 2015 about cyclists wearing earphones could be fined €40 under - Riding a bicycle without reasonable consideration?

this is the comment.

Transport minister Paschal Donohoe has confirmed that there is no offence banning the use of headphones while cycling

...

the minister added that if the person wearing the headphones was putting other road users at risk, this could be covered by the offence of “pedal cycle without reasonable consideration”

http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/06/td-says-large-number-of-cyclists-with-headphones-putting-themselves-and-fellow-road-users-at-risk/
emphasis mine.