azimuth17 wrote: » The posts from Road_High suggest that people "up north" near the Kilkenny county town don't think about Waterford that much, although the number of submissions that originated in every form from that area would contradict that. It is also patently obvious that Kilkenny (the county town) does not have another local authority clamped right up against its front door. Brian Cody suggested that rivalry should be confined to the sports field and I agree , but flag waving populists like Phil Hogan are not afraid to use the GAA analogy when it suits them. Road-high proves the adage that when not argued into a point of view , its hard to be argued out of it. No matter what anyone says or shows or thinks or proves the rebuttal is always the same ,usually coupled with disparaging remark(s) about Waterford city on any topic you care to choose. The historic boundaries (map) were there for centuries and the independent commission proposed a return to essentially those boundaries. Regardless of how the city might develop on that side of the river in the future, and it is inevitable courtesy of the massive investment in servicing land via the Waterford Waste Water Treatment facility in Gorteens, I don't see another boundary extension being feasible. AND remember, the Port of Waterford and its annual millions in rates (unspent in south Kilkenny) has been gifted to Co Kilkenny.
road_high wrote: » Deiseen wrote: » It certainly matters when hurling minnows like Waterford, who are also trying to take your land, come up to your turf and beat you. They'll say they don't care about the league but will cry themselves to sleep tonight. Remind me again, which of Kilkenny's 36 All Ireland's were won in early February? Seen as you brought it up
Deiseen wrote: » It certainly matters when hurling minnows like Waterford, who are also trying to take your land, come up to your turf and beat you. They'll say they don't care about the league but will cry themselves to sleep tonight.
road_high wrote: » Because Kilkenny was never spoon food or molly coddled with IDA jobs like Waterford has been. And there's not a large working class population for factory type work.
Harry Palmr wrote: » road_high wrote: » Because Kilkenny was never spoon food or molly coddled with IDA jobs like Waterford has been. And there's not a large working class population for factory type work. Spoon fed? really? the IDA closed the business end of the Waterford/South East office about 30 years ago. Now it's a fax machine operation as far as I know. The states interest in the (declining) industrial base of Waterford is little more than zero.
azimuth17 wrote: » @Deiseen. The Port of Waterford is the entire harbour from Hook Head to Great Island to Carrick on Suir and encompasses the shores of Wexford, Kilkenny, Waterford and a bit of south Tipp. Port was constrained for expansion in the city, which all relates to the same issue we are discussing.
Deiseen wrote: » I understand that but surely something could have be done rather than gift it to another county?
azimuth17 wrote: » The port always saw itself as operating facilities in the whole harbour, like the jetty at the Paper Mills in Grannagh, the Oil Depot at Fiddown, the power station at Great island as well as traditional facilities in the city. They have an overview of the river as an economic generator. The silliness of planning for the Belview area being done from Kilkenny is beyond comment. Its an Irish joke.
blackcard wrote: » beazee wrote: » Mid 19th century map. All the Kilculliheen is marked as Waterford. Here's the Boundary Commission proposal: What struck me the most was submissions count: 250 - from Kilculliheen, Co. Kilkenny (the very area in question) 299 - from Waterford 16,239 Kilkenny City+Kilkenny Rural (8 formats of the same letter, all delivered in hardcopies, all had to be scanned) In case you haven't read the report: here's linky And only 29 submissions in favour of the proposed change
beazee wrote: » Mid 19th century map. All the Kilculliheen is marked as Waterford. Here's the Boundary Commission proposal: What struck me the most was submissions count: 250 - from Kilculliheen, Co. Kilkenny (the very area in question) 299 - from Waterford 16,239 Kilkenny City+Kilkenny Rural (8 formats of the same letter, all delivered in hardcopies, all had to be scanned) In case you haven't read the report: here's linky
Squidvicious wrote: » I assume that the port is in Belview for sound geographical reasons. I would assume that there were simply no suitable sites on the south side of the river. In addition, having a port on the North side makes it a bit more accessible to most of the rest of the country.
azimuth17 wrote: » @Squidvicious. Its silly in the same manner as having to make two planning applications for the Ardree hotel because the city boundary runs through it. Its silly like having the Abbey Community college administered from Kilkenny as the boundary runs through its grounds. KK Co Co were originally not enamoured of the port move simply because it created a demand for investment that they would not make. They were very very slow with fresh water there for example. The land is servic ed for industry now (eg Glanbia) courtesy of Waterford City Waste Water plant at Gorteens. KK CC would never have made that investment in my view. Investment received while Martin Cullen was a minister solved most of the problems. In general, if the IDA bring someone to Waterford fora pharma industry they might look at Knockhouse or Belview. It seems silly to me that the IDA and Waterford reps would then have to say...Oh wait, planning for that is done elsewhere, in a town with a different agenda. Anyway its moot. The worst part of this commission's recommendation is that they left the port in co Kilkenny with at least €2 million per annum rates, very little of which will ever be spent in south Kilkenny. It was an absolute cop out in terms of economic cohesion.
Squidvicious wrote: » I would be surprised if Kilkenny actively sabotaged development of Belview, even if their only motivation was increased rates. In general, I'd say they're happy enough to facilitate development at Belview. As for the second bit, I have heard that Waterford Council is not at all happy with the recommendation on the basis that the area to be transferred to them will be of little value to them.
Johnboy1951 wrote: » I have no recollection why the terminal was moved in the first place. Lack of space to expand?
Max Powers wrote: » As for that second bit,...you heard about council....no offence squid, not an attack on you but its probably B.S. then.
Harry Palmr wrote: » Too narrow for large LO-LO gantry's and shallow tidal draft depth I think.
robtri wrote: » Harry Palmr wrote: » Too narrow for large LO-LO gantry's and shallow tidal draft depth I think. so I believe and that waterford city wanted it out as it wanted to develop the quays and not have a working port right in the city centre
azimuth17 wrote: » they were disinterested when it was seen as a portal move only, but once Louisiana Pacific strandboard mill arrived, then so did the cash in rates. The move was originally driven by Bell Lines who wanted to use the rail connection. KKCC were happy enough with this, but when Bell Lines went bang after the gantry disaster, the demand for road connection grew and demand for water etc. They took along time to warm to the development and have resisted the use of the name Port of Waterford, Belview Terminal, for a long time. Anyone trying to maximise the economic impact of the port and its adjacent land would have placed it back where it belongs, but this is the recommendation of an Independent Boundary Commission. People in Kilkenny would not know bow from stern and that is not meant to be offensive.
Deiseen wrote: » He's right to be agrieved about the lack of IDA jobs in Kilkenny but should not direct this anger towards Waterford. I've pointed out previously that even Carlow has more IDA jobs than KK but still hasn't got a great deal either nor has Waterford for its size. So this is a south eastern issue. Once again it comes down to a few factors and one of them is the University. Our third level participation is lower than other regions and of the people that do go to third level, they go to other regions to study and don't come back. Hardly an ideal region for a company to set up in is it, knowing they won't be able to find enough qualified staff the fill the vacancies. That's why we don't get the Dells, the Intels, the HPs etc.
road_high wrote: » azimuth17 wrote: » The posts from Road_High suggest that people "up north" near the Kilkenny county town don't think about Waterford that much, although the number of submissions that originated in every form from that area would contradict that. It is also patently obvious that Kilkenny (the county town) does not have another local authority clamped right up against its front door. Brian Cody suggested that rivalry should be confined to the sports field and I agree , but flag waving populists like Phil Hogan are not afraid to use the GAA analogy when it suits them. Road-high proves the adage that when not argued into a point of view , its hard to be argued out of it. No matter what anyone says or shows or thinks or proves the rebuttal is always the same ,usually coupled with disparaging remark(s) about Waterford city on any topic you care to choose. The historic boundaries (map) were there for centuries and the independent commission proposed a return to essentially those boundaries. Regardless of how the city might develop on that side of the river in the future, and it is inevitable courtesy of the massive investment in servicing land via the Waterford Waste Water Treatment facility in Gorteens, I don't see another boundary extension being feasible. AND remember, the Port of Waterford and its annual millions in rates (unspent in south Kilkenny) has been gifted to Co Kilkenny. Yawn zzzz...it's ground hog day around here. Same old crap rehashed day in day out- honestly no one in Kilkenny carlow or Wexford is interested anymore. The country is very small, we don't "have to" work with an obstinate Waterford if we don't want to. It's honestly not worth the hassle. There are other regional options and configurations. Have to laugh at your "gifting"- it's a commercial enterprise that freely choose a co Kilkenny site as the best place to be- it wasn't some kind of gift from the unions.
road_high wrote: » Kilkenny council do huge work in promoting the port and the zone around it- they bent over backwards to encourage local company Glanbia to build their plant there for example.
azimuth17 wrote: » road_high wrote: » Kilkenny council do huge work in promoting the port and the zone around it- they bent over backwards to encourage local company Glanbia to build their plant there for example. Glanbia did not want to build the €40 million treatment plant that would have been necessary to build the new plant at Ballyragget where they already have treatment issues. They sought a site with three requirements. 1, Near a port, 2. Access to treatment facilities of suitable size(Waterford Waste Water plant which you do not even acknowledge. 3 Be in co Kilkenny. Only the Gorteens site was suitable. Bending over backwards does not quite describe that exercise. And by the way, I have to say that your posts reek of a terrible bitterness. You still have not told me whether you support the 24/7 interventional cardiology service at UHW for the 500,000 people of the south east?
zulutango wrote: » What do readers here think of an amalgamation of Kilkenny and Waterford Councils? I think it's the most sensible solution. Create one strong region rather than two weak ones. I'm not sure what the new, enlarged authority could be called. Hurling teams could continue to align themselves along the traditional english county boundaries if they so wished. p.s. I am from neither Kilkenny nor Waterford, and don't have loyalty to one over another.
