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Who asked the British to 'protect' our airspace from the Russians or anyone else ?

Stars and Stripes

Seen an article today in the Indo. Now being the Indo you have to take any security or crime reports with a pinch of salt as it's quotes as usual from anonymous 'sources'. But if true it occurred to me - who ever asked the Brits to mind our air space ? Is it up to them if say, a French or Swedish or American or Russian fighter plane were in our air space ? Or is it just the Indo been the Indo

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/royal-air-force-jets-scramble-to-intercept-russian-bombers-circling-uk-and-ireland-35437672.html

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FrancieBrady

As the person who pretended they had seen the 'agreement' has failed to back up what went on:

franciebrady wrote:

How do you know this then, if you haven't read it?

maryishere wrote:

But an agreement should not be so one sided that one side is providing a service and the other side is not paying for it?

and as the British have understandably (given their belligerent imperialist history) identified this area as THEIR area of interest, is there anything to suggest that they didn't ask if they could do this?
Seems logical to me that they would ask in their own self interest and are willing to pay for it.

Why should we, who haven't got a history of belligerent interference (on the contrary, we have sacrificed many and much, in pursuit of peace keeping) in foreign affairs feel in any way guilty about it?

Dohnjoe

Zebra3 wrote: »

The US started out as 13 states on the east coast. It is now 50 states. Plus countless other territories and something like 800 military bases abroad.

Russia (which was what the USSR was) lost huge tracts of territory in 1991.

And your post........

Oh jesus, we get it, the US/UK/Israel/whatever country personified is the most evil imperialist entity in the world, the "powers that be" are always to blame, anyone who doesn't adhere to this world view is stupid and uninformed, yadda yadda

We get it

Zebra3

Galway_Old_Man wrote: »

Ireland buying jets, oh please. We've no reason to engage in such silly antics. Let NATO and the Russians wave their willies at each other, I'm sure we find better things to do with the tens of millions needed for such posturing.

We've a homeless epidemic, our politicians starve the health system, antiquated public transport system yet you'll still hear idiots moaning we don't have expensive killing machines.

Galway_Old_Man

Ireland buying jets, oh please. We've no reason to engage in such silly antics. Let NATO and the Russians wave their willies at each other, I'm sure we find better things to do with the tens of millions needed for such posturing.

seachto7

Stars and Stripes wrote: »

Seen an article today in the Indo. Now being the Indo you have to take any security or crime reports with a pinch of salt as it's quotes as usual from anonymous 'sources'. But if true it occurred to me - who ever asked the Brits to mind our air space ? Is it up to them if say, a French or Swedish or American or Russian fighter plane were in our air space ? Or is it just the Indo been the Indo

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/royal-air-force-jets-scramble-to-intercept-russian-bombers-circling-uk-and-ireland-35437672.html

Who would you prefer protected our airspace? If you squint your eyes hard enough, you might be able to get offended at the union flag on their planes way up there in the sky.

Zebra3

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Russia or US could land grab Ireland, Would US defend us if Russia invaded , maybe before Trump they would have, now not so sure. Trump would tell us to defend ourselves. Russia are slowly land grabbing, they have done it forever. They are creeping west acre by acre .

The US started out as 13 states on the east coast. It is now 50 states. Plus countless other territories and something like 800 military bases abroad.

Russia (which was what the USSR was) lost huge tracts of territory in 1991.

And your post........

Jawgap

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Not being Irish can I ask. Who is the agency responsible for spying and alike CIA equivalent MI6-5.

maryishere wrote: »

M15 is internal security of UK. M16 involved outside UK.

In Ireland, from Wiki: The Special Detective Unit (SDU) (Irish: Aonad Speisialta Bleachtaireachta) is the main domestic security agency of the Garda Síochána, the national police force of Ireland, under the aegis of the Crime & Security Branch (CSB). It is the primary counter-terrorism and counter-espionage investigative unit ..

I wouldn't be relying on Wikipedia

The SDU isn't the equivalent of MI5 - it's more like the equivalent of Counter-Terrorism Command in the Met. "Security & Intelligence" is the state's equivalent of MI5.

We have no direct equivalent to MI6 or GCHQ - G2 would be the closest and that would be a stretch.

Jawgap

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why would the minister comment on this then ? Why specifically on gatherings and holidays. doing it for the crack and scaremongering I suppose ? explain what makes us Immune ?

"Minister Speaks Sh1te"

Well colour me surprised that a politician failed to decline an opportunity to say something that would boost their profile :rolleyes:

Saying we're not immune is not the same as saying we're a target - I'm not immune from getting hit by a car, it doesn't mean there's a driver targeting me.

ISIS are not mindless savages. Their violence is about sending a carefully crafted political message - if they were just interested in body counts they'd target football stadia, not airports or transport networks. There's a reason, for example, they hit Brussels airport and not the busier Sciphol (which they could have easily travelled to) - the EU is headquartered in Brussels - they weren't attacking an airport inasmuch as it was a strike at a major centre of political power.

Lone wolves attaching themselves to ISIS are not the same as ISIS targeting a country. If they didn't put any resources into the attack then it wasn't targeted, because it wasn't important to them.

Zebra3

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Zebra3 wrote: »

Given Britain's murderous history in our country and Ireland's fairly friendly relations with Russia, I'd gladly take Russian planes defending our country over British planes.

But the usual racist lick arses who think Obama was a "nice guy" will be out defending the global rapists....

I bet you'd even support ISIS if the Brits were fighting them.:D

You always sound like a caricature of anti-British person.

The historical facts make you uncomfortable?

Psychlops

Stars and Stripes wrote: »

Does the fact that we're neutral not protect it ? If you don't pose a threat to someone else they tend to leave you alone, hence why this state hasn't been at war with anyone since it was founded.

We are not Neutral, we never have been, look it up.

maryishere

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Not being Irish can I ask. Who is the agency responsible for spying and alike CIA equivalent MI6-5.

M15 is internal security of UK. M16 involved outside UK.

In Ireland, from Wiki: The Special Detective Unit (SDU) (Irish: Aonad Speisialta Bleachtaireachta) is the main domestic security agency of the Garda Síochána, the national police force of Ireland, under the aegis of the Crime & Security Branch (CSB). It is the primary counter-terrorism and counter-espionage investigative unit ..

darkpagandeath

maryishere wrote: »

They did not know he was outside the country, and had been for some time. They though he was still in Ireland somewhere. So when I read that I have to laugh, because Francis Fitzgerald does not even know what ISIS extremists are in the country or not.

Not being Irish can I ask. Who is the agency responsible for spying and alike CIA equivalent MI6-5.

maryishere

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

And more to the point, what's he got to do with the RAF defending their interests in Irish airspace?

They do not have interests in Irish airspace: they help defend our interests in Irish airspace

maryishere

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

And what interest would the Gardai have in this man if he is outside the jurisdiction?

All they can do is advise the country to which he is flying that he's on his way, and beyond that what else could they do? Follow him?

They did not know he was outside the country, and had been for some time. They though he was still in Ireland somewhere. So when I read that

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Francis Fitzgerald repeatedly states "there is no reason to change Irelands terror threat level". She gets that information from multiple official sources from people who also know what they are talking about.

I have to laugh, because Francis Fitzgerald does not even know what ISIS extremists are in the country or not.

AndyBoBandy

maryishere wrote: »

The Isis member, as one of the most extreme Muslims in Ireland, was not unknown to the Gardai. According to the link I gave you, if you bothered reading it, "Mr Kelly was arrested by gardaí in 2011, ahead of US president Barack Obama’s visit to the Republic. "

And what interest would the Gardai have in this man if he is outside the jurisdiction?

All they can do is advise the country to which he is flying that he's on his way, and beyond that what else could they do? Follow him?

And more to the point, what's he got to do with the RAF defending their interests in Irish airspace?

darkpagandeath

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Some people in here have no interest in thinking for themselves.

They take everything at face value from media sources without understanding the background. Its pure lazy opinion which they then reinforce but using more lazy opinion and think they are right :pac:

They have no understanding of the Syria crisis never mind Jihadist doctrine and the inherent complexities behind it.

They still think the video of the "coalition of devils" substantiates a credible and imminent threat to Ireland.

They dont even know how it came about and why our flag is there in the first place. :pac:

I like a bit of debate...with people of informed opinion, which is completely lacking in this thread.

I've put the mouthbreathers on ignore as they are blinkered and ignorant to the situation and clouded by headlines.

Anyway. No point engaging with a guy trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Best of luck with them Jawgap

Is the minister of foreign affairs incompetent in your opinion ? He is on record saying we are not immune and to be watchful.

maryishere

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Why would they even care?

Are the Gardai keeping tabs on all Irish persons when they go abroad?

The Isis member, as one of the most extreme Muslims in Ireland, was not unknown to the Gardai. According to the link I gave you, if you bothered reading it, "Mr Kelly was arrested by gardaí in 2011, ahead of US president Barack Obama’s visit to the Republic. "

Barry Badrinath

Jawgap wrote: »

Seriously?

Are people this naive?

Some people in here have no interest in thinking for themselves.

They take everything at face value from media sources without understanding the background. Its pure lazy opinion which they then reinforce but using more lazy opinion and think they are right :pac:

They have no understanding of the Syria crisis never mind Jihadist doctrine and the inherent complexities behind it.

They still think the video of the "coalition of devils" substantiates a credible and imminent threat to Ireland.

They dont even know how it came about and why our flag is there in the first place. :pac:

I like a bit of debate...with people of informed opinion, which is completely lacking in this thread.

I've put the mouthbreathers on ignore as they are blinkered and ignorant to the situation and clouded by headlines.

Anyway. No point engaging with a guy trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Best of luck with them Jawgap

darkpagandeath

Jawgap wrote: »

Seriously?

You do understand that France has a historic involvement in the region and was partially responsible for half the Sykes-Picquot Agreement which divided up the region and that it's a significant political and military power, including being a permanent member of the Security Council?

You really think that because France was target we're a target? Are people this naive?

Why would the minister comment on this then ? Why specifically on gatherings and holidays. doing it for the crack and scaremongering I suppose ? explain what makes us Immune ?

Jawgap

darkpagandeath wrote: »

80 odd killed and 400 odd injured wounded in France on high alert. Are people this naive ?

Seriously?

You do understand that France has a historic involvement in the region and was partially responsible for half the Sykes-Picquot Agreement which divided up the region and that it's a significant political and military power, including being a permanent member of the Security Council?

You really think that because France was target we're a target? Are people this naive?

bear1

This thread has turned boring.

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

I never saw it, or claimed to have seen it, but if its good enough for the Examiner...
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/raf-tornado-jets-could-shoot-down-hijacked-planes-in-irish-airspace-414646.html

How do you know this then, if you haven't read it?

maryishere wrote:

But an agreement should not be so one sided that one side is providing a service and the other side is not paying for it?

AndyBoBandy

maryishere wrote: »

did the Gardai even know that Terence Kelly was out of the country when he was killed in an ISIS mission not too long ago?

Why would they even care?

Are the Gardai keeping tabs on all Irish persons when they go abroad?

maryishere

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm not qualified to speak on behalf of AGS and neither are you.

Now since the only info you have is from the internet.

No, his history with the Gardai was widely documented in the papers shortly after he was killed on his ISIS mission / his bomb exploded prematurely.

Now, you claimed " Ireland is not an IS target. End of." Have you spoken to them personally, and if so, do think still think It is impossible Ireland (or American planes / companies here ) will ever be attacked? Are you aware some American companies take their security seriously?

darkpagandeath

http://www.midlands103.com/news-centre/minister-flanagan-warning-ireland-not-immune-terror-attack/

darkpagandeath

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm not qualified to speak on behalf of AGS and neither are you.

Now since the only info you have is from the internet.

Kindly provide us with the full list of Irish or naturalised Irish people who are currently fighting on behalf of various groups in current conflict zones......is he the only one you know of?

200 is it not ?

darkpagandeath

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

The fact that you need links lets me know you have no idea what you are talking about.

What information do YOU have that Ireland is a direct target for IS? You have none. None at all.....no wait....theres a video from 12+ months ago on the internet.

I base my informed opinion on current European and Irish threat levels, the modus operandi, intent, capabilities and motives of jihadist groups like IS and their affiliates.

This coupled with Irelands immigration and integration policies and regional issues and infuences.

If you dont understand that then thats something a hundread links wont solve.

If you like, you can do a quick Google search for the recent France / German / Brussels events whereby Francis Fitzgerald repeatedly states "there is no reason to change Irelands terror threat level". She gets that information from multiple official sources from people who also know what they are talking about.

Maybe look up ministers commenting on things and Ireland "Not being Immune".

Barry Badrinath

maryishere wrote: »

A statement / video from ISIS listing the countries of infidels it wishes to attack sooner or later and we are on that list.

Wow, still holding onto that! :pac:

Totally blinkered.

Barry Badrinath

maryishere wrote: »

Knew what they were talking about...did the Gardai even know that Terence Kelly was out of the country when he was killed in an ISIS mission not too long ago?
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/irishman-dies-carrying-out-suicide-attack-for-isis-near-mosul-1.2856367

I'm not qualified to speak on behalf of AGS and neither are you.

Now since the only info you have is from the internet.

Kindly provide us with the full list of Irish or naturalised Irish people who are currently fighting on behalf of various groups in current conflict zones......is he the only one you know of?

maryishere

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

She gets that information from multiple official sources from people who also know what they are talking about.

Knew what they were talking about...did the Gardai even know that Terence Kelly was out of the country when he was killed in an ISIS mission not too long ago?
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/irishman-dies-carrying-out-suicide-attack-for-isis-near-mosul-1.2856367

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

What information do YOU have that Ireland is a direct target for IS?

A statement / video from ISIS listing the countries of infidels it wishes to attack sooner or later and we are on that list.