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Who asked the British to 'protect' our airspace from the Russians or anyone else ?

Stars and Stripes

Seen an article today in the Indo. Now being the Indo you have to take any security or crime reports with a pinch of salt as it's quotes as usual from anonymous 'sources'. But if true it occurred to me - who ever asked the Brits to mind our air space ? Is it up to them if say, a French or Swedish or American or Russian fighter plane were in our air space ? Or is it just the Indo been the Indo

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/royal-air-force-jets-scramble-to-intercept-russian-bombers-circling-uk-and-ireland-35437672.html

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prinzeugen

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Out of interest, what long range military Radar capability does Ireland have to report they were only 12m away ? Would be very very expensive kit. And since Ireland has no interception capabilities seems odd. Do Ireland even have SAM's ?

I dont think they have any but someone might know more. As far as I am aware Irish airspace is covered by the RAF stations.

darkpagandeath

prinzeugen wrote: »

I dont think they have any but someone might know more. As far as I am aware Irish airspace is covered by the RAF stations.

Yeah I would assume the British to have that capability. So could be second hand information given in the article ?

the_syco

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Its because we don't have sticks long enough to hit the Russian bombers all the way up der in de clouds.

Have you never heard of Project Kite?

prinzeugen

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah I would assume the British to have that capability. So could be second hand information given in the article ?

It is second hand info. Being 12 miles away from Irish space means the were around 30-35 miles off the coast.

bazz26

I heard Charlie Flanagan is writing a strongly worded letter to the Russians.

Gatling

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Do Ireland even have SAM's ? I'm not talking shoulder launchers.

We actually do have some SAMs less than 20 though mainly RBS 70 Manpads none of which have ever been fired here

darkpagandeath

Gatling wrote: »

We actually do have some SAMs less than 20 though mainly RBS 70 Manpads none of which have ever been fired here

KK seems they are more for the peace keeping ? self deployed on a needed basis not static defence.

Manic Moran

Defense Minister Michael Smith last year intimated that a deal had been struck.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/governments-secret-plan-to-ask-britain-for-help-if-attacked-26229191.html

It is not an unreasonable position, since Ireland cannot enforce, even on a token basis, its neutrality (or technically, case-by -case implementation of non-alignment) and it is a matter of international law that if a country cannot enforce its neutrality, combatants can enter the territory in case the other side is doing it. This is the reason the Irish Naval Service made that rapid purchase of MTBs at the start of the Emergency. They may not be great, but at least they could perform a token defense role. (See "The Irish Naval Service: A story of courage and tenacity" if you can find a copy)

darkpagandeath

Manic Moran wrote: »

Defense Minister Michael Smith last year intimated that a deal had been struck.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/governments-secret-plan-to-ask-britain-for-help-if-attacked-26229191.html

It is not an unreasonable position, since Ireland cannot enforce, even on a token basis, its neutrality (or technically, case-by -case implementation of non-alignment) and it is a matter of international law that if a country cannot enforce its neutrality, combatants can enter the territory in case the other side is doing it. This is the reason the Irish Naval Service made that rapid purchase of MTBs at the start of the Emergency. They may not be great, but at least they could perform a token defense role. (See "The Irish Naval Service: A story of courage and tenacity" if you can find a copy)

Well the only party that would make sense is Britain. Response time, knowing the land so forth. I think mostly its hidden to stop the old British troops on Irish soil. I understand why but, The devil you know is better than the one you don't. Maybe they have a Royal Irish brigade or detachment on standby to make it more palatable ?

prinzeugen

Can always get the old RAF/Luftwaffe stuff..
l

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCgAAsploGY

darkpagandeath

prinzeugen wrote: »

Can always get the old RAF/Luftwaffe stuff..
l

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCgAAsploGY

Could always ask the Brits for some RAF Typhoons, but I suspect some in the dail would want the failed experiment that is raptors. Beaten by EU typhoons the Americans called foul and took the ball home.

prinzeugen

Skip to 15 mins in..

prinzeugen

Even the "neutral" Swiss dont trust the former Russians..

And that is a 9-5 Airforce..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhXjHIVSQFQ

They can get armed planes in the air so why not us?

There was talk of leasing a few F-16's from Holland..

Jawgap

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Could always ask the Brits for some RAF Typhoons, but I suspect some in the dail would want the failed experiment that is raptors. Beaten by EU typhoons the Americans called foul and took the ball home.

Ah yes, that old chestnut about the Tiffy -v- the Raptor......which conveniently neglects the fact that in a potential air combat situation the Tiffy probably wouldn't get close enough to dogfight the Raptor. The first indication a Tiffy driver would get that Raptor was hunting him would likely be his wingman being turned into a fiery ball

bear1

The government at some stage will have no choice but to get jet powered planes.
The props we have won't be around forever so either they strike up deals whereby planes are stationed in Ireland so even quicker response times or we buy some jets and police our own airspace..
I wonder who has command of the raf in case over Irish airspace they need to shoot down an airliner? The government here or the uk?
Remember reading once that Sweden offered to lease us 10? Jets with ammo and full spare parts for a number of years for free but the government declined.. gob****es.

dmc17

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

http://www.military.ie/en/air-corps/fleet/

Get in those prop planes and take out those multi-million top end bombers lads.

:pac:

Stars and Stripes

dmc17 wrote: »

:pac:

Best post on the thread by far

Stars and Stripes

prinzeugen wrote: »

The fact is these Russian planes are flying through busy trans-Atlantic flight paths with the transponders switched off.

Only military radar can pick them up. The collision avoidance warnings on passenger planes will not pick them up.

The only safe method of knowing exactly where they are is to send up jets to shadow them.

So who will we get to shadow foreign aircraft in our air space, the Russians ?

prinzeugen wrote: »

The jets can then relay the exact position back to ATC and keep civil traffic clear.

They are at the same crap in the North Pacific as well.

The same goes for any aircraft that does not make radio contact with ATC. There was a case last year of a brand new Airbus en-route to Brazil that failed to make ATC contact and was intercepted in Irish airspace by the RAF and escorted and forced to land in Prestwick in Scotland.

Amazing, any reliable links for that ? And fairy tales in the Indo don't count

Stars and Stripes

buried wrote: »

We should just buy some of those british aerospace jets they sold to the Saudi's. Although, seeing how those jets are only capable of firing rockets at starving women and children in the rubble of Yemen, they may not work too well against other flying, rocket firing, killing machines

That's a good point, Boris Johnson in the headlines today, but of course a few on b.ie will tell us that the British govt and it's RAF have nothing but the best of intentions for us, looking after the ungrateful Paddy's out of the sheer generosity of their hearts. Now this is an airforce and govt you can trust isn't it -

Boris Johnson pressed for UK to keep selling bombs to Saudi Arabia after air strike killed 140 at funeral
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/saudi-arabia-arms-sales-bombs-boris-johnson-funeral-bombing-a7574001.html

Dohnjoe

Stars and Stripes wrote: »

Does the fact that we're neutral not protect it ? If you don't pose a threat to someone else they tend to leave you alone, hence why this state hasn't been at war with anyone since it was founded.

Neutrality would be ignored or taken advantage of

We were "neutral" during the Cold War, but the Russians still had a nuke pointed at Shannon because it had the longest runway in Europe and would be strategically v important to the Americans

Despite international spats, we're a long way off war, so any defense plans have to be made with a lot of hypotheticals. Therefore, any future largescale (however unlikely) war involving Russia - Irish airspace would likely have to be protected - the Russians wouldn't respect our neutrality because there is zero consequence to it

On a more realistic side, we don't have the capacity to deal with any hostile or illegal incursions into our airspace.

Capt'n Midnight

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Could always ask the Brits for some RAF Typhoons, but I suspect some in the dail would want the failed experiment that is raptors. has a non-pay allocation of €182m (including €66m in capital)

Our defence budget

So we'd be able to buy an F35 every four or five years, excluding running costs , upgrades, repairs, training and consumables, if we abandoned all other equipment purchases.

Zebra3

Given Britain's murderous history in our country and Ireland's fairly friendly relations with Russia, I'd gladly take Russian planes defending our country over British planes.

But the usual racist lick arses who think Obama was a "nice guy" will be out defending the global rapists....

pablomakaveli

Zebra3 wrote: »

Given Britain's murderous history in our country and Ireland's fairly friendly relations with Russia, I'd gladly take Russian planes defending our country over British planes.

But the usual racist lick arses who think Obama was a "nice guy" will be out defending the global rapists....

I bet you'd even support ISIS if the Brits were fighting them.:D

You always sound like a caricature of anti-British person.

darkpagandeath

Jawgap wrote: »

Ah yes, that old chestnut about the Tiffy -v- the Raptor......which conveniently neglects the fact that in a potential air combat situation the Tiffy probably wouldn't get close enough to dogfight the Raptor. The first indication a Tiffy driver would get that Raptor was hunting him would likely be his wingman being turned into a fiery ball

Yeah, Lets all forget about it's massive problems. The Pentagon is not happy.

Jawgap

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah, Lets all forget about it's massive problems. The Pentagon is not happy.

Don't know about that, the USAF seem quite happy with the results coming out of Red Flag 17-1.

If you can believe them then the F-35 is knocking down the Agressors at a rate of 15:1 and the mixed F-35/F-22 packages have a 100% success rate.

bear1

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Our defence budget[/URL]

So we'd be able to buy an F35 every four or five years, excluding running costs , upgrades, repairs, training and consumables, if we abandoned all other equipment purchases.

Am I reading that right?
They increased spending my 6 million?

maryishere

jimboblep wrote: »

Sure, the only thing the air corp could scramble is eggs

Was'nt there a case a year or 2 ago when a plane was suspected hijacked and was not responding to radio communication, and the raf were called in investigate / to escort it away?

I wonder when Obama was here were the raf, as a nato country, doing their bit to make sure Air Force One / Irish airspace was safe from any stray aircraft threat?

Gatling

I seem to remember a company in America recently selling 20 Fuga magister jets, which is the last jet Aircraft operated by the aircorp that could be armed .

20 Fuga's for $200,000

https://theaviationist.com/2017/01/17/need-your-own-private-air-force-in-a-hurry-heres-one-for-sale/

I believe we should be looking at Saab or the Textron Scorpion or one of the TX competition Aircraft trying to replace the American T38 talons ,

( I can dream )

Gatling

maryishere wrote: »

I wonder when Obama was here were the raf, as a nato country, doing their bit to make sure Air Force One / Irish airspace was safe from any stray aircraft threat?

Yes they did i believe they had their own Aircraft loitering close to AF one as standard (open to correction )

US jets are regularly spotted off the west coast carrying out flight training

[Deleted User]

Gatling wrote:

US jets are regularly spotted off the west coast carrying out flight training

Agree here
We had US jets over Dublin during Obama's visit if I remember correctly. Also armed FBI. We also had US jets fly over Dublin when the JFK was parked in Irish waters.
Then there's the rumours of the secret spy plane regularly flying over Ireland a few years ago.