El_Duderino 09 wrote: » I haven't mentioned morality or legality. I have the same question about sex in the grey area a dozen times only had 2 responses. One response says it's always regret sex and never to be considered rape and the victim should chalk it up to experience. The other said it's a matter for the four to decide. I think there should simply be respect enough for each other and for the importance of sex as bonding and recreation, to gain consent before having sex. I'm mad for thinking that apparently.
silverharp wrote: in fairness what would genuinely disturb you probably isn't a good test of anything
Special Circumstances wrote: But if both guys have consumed an alcoholic beverage can either have given formal consent? Surely they have raped each other in that case.. going by the prevailing new wisdom.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Ironically enough, I've asked that question lads of times and get a range of answers. Some say they know exactly what they're doing on drink/drugs so consent isn't an issue. One poster claimed drink is worse than the drugs they've used when it comes to knowing what you're doing - they didn't accept consent is an issue on either drink/drugs. Most answer are along the lines of 'you know consent yourself, like'. I don't know where the lines with consent are drawn with drink/drugs. What do you think?
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » It was disturbing to me Someone could come to silverharp and say 'I was out last night, had a few drinks, went home with someone, one thing led to another and we started having sex. I didn't want to but I didn't know how to stop. Can you stop once you start? Anyway I think I might have been raped' Selverharp's response: oh mean you had regret sex. Chalk it up to experience, eh. Buck up.
silverharp wrote: » well great at least for once you have given the bones of a scenario. I believe women have agency and know their own mind and the law must reflect this, unless there was evidence of coercion or all I see is 2 innocent parties. Essentially all I can read into this is that someone lowered their standards because "they had a few drinks". Im not even convinced her actually saying Yes would add to the scenario ? the next morning she could say I didn't know how to say No so said Yes and we are back to square one
orubiru wrote: » So I think the problem here is that you are almost conflating serious terrible behavior, such as "she was asking for it with that outfit", or having sex with someone who is passed out, and rather less clear issues like miscommunication and misunderstanding....
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » ... I didn't want to but I didn't know how to stop. Can you stop once you start? Anyway I think I might have been raped'
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » You want to use the context leading up to sex as consent, so how are you going to define the boundaries of the context? Body language ect. presumably? If you consider "she danced and took a drink from him so that is consent" and the other person doesn't consider that consent, then where do you other stand. The body language and context has left you both with different interpretations and now what happens? Who's to say what could take as consent in that context? If a friend came to you after having an experience like that said they consider themselves to have been raped. Would you tell them they weren't raped, they just experienced a grey area so nothing to worry about?
Deleted User wrote: »
pumpkin4life wrote: » It's a modern society thing. That women are helpless victims that if they do something bad then its not their fault, god forbid that
Wibbs wrote: » As I've been saying it always comes back to "women are always agent less victims and men are always to blame". Even in the examples above when women themselves claim agency(mad eh?) and don't see themselves as victims the Sisterhood of the Church of the Perpetual Victim claim them as unwilling acolytes. Forget men asking WTF, more women should be rounding on these deluded muppets with issues and political axes to grind.
Wibbs wrote: » Forget men asking WTF, more women should be rounding on these deluded muppets with issues and political axes to grind.
fullstop wrote: » Did you ask him the question in return, yes or no? You keep avoiding the point.
FishOnABike wrote: » Perhaps it is assumed ?
fullstop wrote: » Why should it be assumed for him, but not for her?
FishOnABike wrote: » A significant ammount of communication in our day to day interactions is non verbal. Why should relationships and sex be any different? Functioning adults can let their wishes be known and understand other's wishes without repeated explicit verbal confirmation - the odd sexy hint doesn't go astray now and then but it's a spontaneous dance of passion not a checklist to be ticked off methodically.
fullstop wrote: Of course you can ask to stop. I've been asked to stop a few times in the middle of consensual sex and, guess what, I stopped. So you're basically saying if I hadn't been asked to stop it would have been rape, even though i wouldn't have known?!
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Well you would have been having sex against someone else's will even though you didn't know it. You could have been accused at least. And if you had never actually gained consent in the first place, then it's your word against someone else's. Not ideal for either party
silverharp wrote: Essentially all I can read into this is that someone lowered their standards because "they had a few drinks". Im not even convinced her actually saying Yes would add to the scenario ? the next morning she could say I didn't know how to say No so said Yes and we are back to square one
Zulu wrote: Exactly this - starting from a position that sex=rape and working back from there, which is mental.
Zulu wrote: Arragh Guard they wanted a lift home and I didn't want to say no. So I hopped in the car with 15 pints and drove them. It's not my fault. I didn't know how to say no.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Who said anything about lowering standards. You send to assime aspect into it every time, even when there's no evidence of it. That's telling. So what would you actually say to a real person who confided that scenario in you?
Special Circumstances wrote: So you're going with the "consent must be written or otherwise recorded or witnessed" yeah?
silverharp wrote: I'd be more interested in what the law would say? as the law sets the test.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » No.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » That's better than telling them it was only regret sex and to chalk it up to experience.
Special Circumstances wrote: Well surely it's only ever going to be one persons word against another otherwise?
silverharp wrote: I dunno , the defence lawyer would be less charitable again. btw you didn't answer my question, how does the "yes" help? the same excuse could be used after
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