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The greatest Irish person...

[Deleted User]

...presume it's been done here before, but can't say I've seen it recently.

So who do you regard as the greatest Irish person? To avoid the inevitable NI argument I mean anyone from the island of Ireland, or with Irish nationality for anyone wrestling over Daniel Day Lewis etc. And give a sentence or 2 of reasoning...

For me, it's W.B. Yeats. A brilliant brilliant mind, the man who created the most beautiful poem of all time with his "When You Are Old". The word "genius" should be used very carefully, but I think it fully applies in his case.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/43283

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tomwaterford

Roy keane/joe brolly?

Show the new modern self confident ireland where they afraid of nothing and don't view themselves as inferior and try their best at everything

[Deleted User]

If I was going for the science world, surely the father of chemistry Robert Boyle has a better claim than that Campbell guy...I've already forgotten what some poster said he did but it's gotta be more niche than pioneering experimental science and discovering the law that is the bedrock of physics.

One "t" in "Whitaker" and it's "de Valera"...

Patser

ken wrote: »

More can be added so don't vote if your guy/girl isn't on the list yet.

Can I nominate Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington again.

1 of history's greatest generals, he conquered most of India with a minuscule army, fought to defend Portugal and liberate Spain from Napoleon's legions again while being massively outnumbered, under supplied and isolated. Then he faced down and defeated Napoleon himself at Waterloo in one of history's most decisive battles.

After this he became the only Irish man to become Prime Minister of the United kingdom.

All while finding time to shag 2 of Napoleon's exes and probably his sister.

He also gave us Wellies.

iDave

JupiterKid wrote: »

Not one woman listed on that poll. Not a single one!:(

We need better women so.

jmayo

maudgonner wrote: »

I find it hard to take Yeats' romantic poetry seriously knowing what a strange, strange man he was. I mean my namesake was fairly batshít crazy, but he was miles worse than even her.

I think Michael Davitt was a remarkable man, and has been quite overlooked by history. Partly because he was overshadowed by the glamour of Parnell. Partly because our modern view of history was so shaped by Pearse, Plunkett etc and the peaceful revolution of the Land War didn't fit their uprising's agenda. But for a man from the humblest of backgrounds, who had an unfortunate childhood, to go on and live the life he did, while being a seemingly very humble and decent man, that's impressive.

Davitt was some man for one man.

And shure didn't Enda even mention him on one of his trips to the White House.

maryishere wrote: »

Ford ( of the Ford car company) came from Cork before he set up his car factory ( modern assembly line ) in the states and revolutionised car manufacture.

Boyle ( Boyles law in physics) came from Dublin as far as I remember.

Dunlop ( the man behind the tyres) and Ferguson ( the man behind the tractors), from N.I.

Walton, the man who split the atom, won or co-won Nobel prize I think

Not bad for a small country.

Ehh Henry Ford was born in Michigan not in Cork.
His father was from Cork.

Now Harry Ferguson was a mechanical genius.
Not alone did he give us the three point linkage, he was first person to build and fly his own plane in these islands and he was first guy to build a 4 wheel drive F1 car.

Deleted User wrote: »

The old chestnuts about the Church etc. etc. McQuaid was bosom buddies with Cosgrave and Ireland was a very Catholic country, the idea that Dev should have stood up to the Church is laughable. He actually diluted their influence in the Constitution, and of course showed far more ability to stand up to them in the aftermath of the Mother and Child scheme than those across the floor from him.

As for the idea that he started the Civil War, men like O'Connor and Mellows were certainly not led by Dev. Again, laughably simplistic history.

He kept us out of WWII and also ensured that we did not go the way of extremism, left or right, like other countries in 1930s Europe.

dev was a sleeveen who actually complained about Irish people emigrating even though his economic policies were adding to the reasons.
Oh and I think he is probably the only world leader to offer his condolences on the death of one mr hitler. :rolleyes:

And aren't you are supposed to be from Kerry and you haven't even supported Tom Crean as one of Ireland 's greats anywhere on this list.
For shame.

pauliebdub wrote: »

Patrick o 'Connell

To fans of Seville's second team Real Betis he guided them to their only la Liga title. Went on to manage Barcelona. They've won SFA since.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_O%27Connell_(Irish_footballer)

Let's leave out the bigamy and the abandoning his family part.

JupiterKid wrote: »

Not one woman listed on that poll. Not a single one!:(

Are we going to have a quota?

Ken Whitaker did more to further this country than probably 99% of the muppets that have served in the Dáil since it's inception.

Patser

JupiterKid wrote: »

Not one woman listed on that poll. Not a single one!:(

Why not recommend one.

Countess Markievicz
Grace O'Malley
Queen Maeve

There's a few historical ones. Modern wise you'd have Veronica Guerin and Orla Guerin as reporters, God knows how many in charity works or in writing and the likes of Sinéad O'Connor (whatever about her problems), Brenda Fricker, Saoirse Ronan in the arts.

Red Kev

Daniel O'Connell was the first name that came up when I saw the thread. he proved that well organised, mass, peaceful protest can achieve almost anything. He also learned from the mistakes of others which is asadly a lacking quality in many leaders. he saw the suffering of the French revolution and decided that there was another way.

he was arguably the catalyst that gave the Irish poor the idea that they could use the means that they had and stand up for themselves against their rulers.

Barbie! wrote: »

I'm going to start a poll on this. Gonna start it out with 2 or 3 options and then add to it. If I remember correctly the maximum is about 25 so gonna have to narrow it down. No sports people will be included as we done that already.
So far gonna have
W.B. Yeats
Shackelton,
Charles Stewart Parnell
Tom Crean
Arthur Guinness
Roger Casement
Michael Collins
TK Whittaker
James Joyce
Eamon DeValera
Bob Geldof
William C. Campbell

More can be added so don't vote if your guy/girl isn't on the list yet.

Put Daniel O'Connell, John Hume, Noel Browne and Michael Davitt on that list.

pumpkin4life

Bob Gelfdof?!?

What the fùck?

He's a giant wanker.

artemis268

Duke of Wellington Authur wellesley. He's Dublin born and one of history's most prominent generals. He's probably achieved more in his life than a lot of the candidates up there.

uck51js9zml2yt

Jack Charlton...A disgrace he's not on the list....

.....Goes back to watching paint dry

Wellywoo

Red Kev wrote: »

Daniel O'Connell was the first name that came up when I saw the thread. he proved that well organised, mass, peaceful protest can achieve almost anything. He also learned from the mistakes of others which is asadly a lacking quality in many leaders. he saw the suffering of the French revolution and decided that there was another way.

he was arguably the catalyst that gave the Irish poor the idea that they could use the means that they had and stand up for themselves against their rulers.

Put Daniel O'Connell, John Hume, Noel Browne and Michael Davitt on that list.

I agree, I've just spent the last few minutes scrolling through all posts wondering why he hadn't been mentioned.

pumpkin4life

Barbie! wrote: »

I'm going to start a poll on this. Gonna start it out with 2 or 3 options and then add to it. If I remember correctly the maximum is about 25 so gonna have to narrow it down. No sports people will be included as we done that already.
So far gonna have
W.B. Yeats
Shackelton,
Charles Stewart Parnell
Tom Crean
Arthur Guinness
Roger Casement
Michael Collins
TK Whittaker
James Joyce
Eamon DeValera
Bob Geldof
William C. Campbell

More can be added so don't vote if your guy/girl isn't on the list yet.

I'd also add George Berkeley and William Hamilton to that list. Berkeley had a massive impact on Enlightenment philosophy and Hamiltons little bit of petty vandalism was a big king kong moment in the maths and sums.

FrancieBrady

Julius Handsome Poison wrote: »

Jack Charlton...A disgrace he's not on the list....

.....Goes back to watching paint dry

Probably as 'Irish' as Arthur Wellesley was.

artemis268

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Probably as 'Irish' as Arthur Wellesley was.

He was born, grew up, went to school and spent most of his childhood in Ireland. How is that not Irish enough?

Is he penalized because he went abroad and sought better oppportunites? That's pretty much the story for a lot of young Irish college graduates these past few year.

Plus, he wouldn't have achieved much if he stayed in Ireland or won victory against Napolean if he just stayed an officer in the Irish army or its equivalent at the time.

FrancieBrady

artemis268 wrote: »

He was born, grew up, went to school and spent most of his childhood in Ireland. How is that not Irish enough?

Is he penalized because he went abroad and sought better oppportunites? That's pretty much the story for a lot of young Irish college graduates these past few year.

Plus, he wouldn't have achieved much if he stayed in Ireland or won victory against Napolean if he just stayed an officer in the Irish army or its equivalent at the time.

:D He despised the 'Irish' which I think disqualifies him from this particular poll.

As his biographer said:

Neither he nor his kin ever considered themselves as Irish. . .The Anglo-Irish aristocracy had nothing in common with the indigenous, Gaelic-speaking and Catholic Irish whom they despised and distrusted.

Patser

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D He despised the 'Irish' which I think disqualifies him from this particular poll.

As his biographer said:

That's part of the fun in making him the Greatest Irishman. That and sticking up a huge memorial to him in the Phoenix Park, so as to always remind him of his Irishness.

And sure didn't Michael Collins join the British Civil service and go work in London for a decade before 1916, he spent more of his adult life in service to the crown, than against it. Is he disqualified?

FrancieBrady

Patser wrote: »

That's part of the fun in making him the Greatest Irishman. That and sticking up a huge memorial to him in the Phoenix Park, so as to always remind him of his Irishness.

And sure didn't Michael Collins join the British Civil service and go work in London for a decade before 1916, he spent more of his adult life in service to the crown, than against it. Is he disqualified?

Did Collins express his 'hate' for the Irish?

Most of the memorials to great Britons in this country were put up by themselves. Faint praise imo.

Patser

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did Collins express his 'hate' for the Irish?

Most of the memorials to great Britons in this country were put up by themselves. Faint praise imo.

He spent half his time fighting them. Remind me who shot him!

FrancieBrady

Patser wrote: »

He spent half his time fighting them. Remind me who shot him!

Did he express his 'hate' for the Irish? Simple question.

artemis268

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D He despised the 'Irish' which I think disqualifies him from this particular poll.

As his biographer said:

I stand corrected.

However, Authur Wessley may be a **** person and a racist, but by today's laws he would be considered an Irish citizen and hence Irish.

I just think we should be the better people and look past that and let his achievements in life stand on his own. Ghandi was racist towards Africans but he's still celebrated. A lot of famous western scientists have also expressed racists attitudes. Times were different then, the older generation's education on multiculturalism/tolerance can be said to be somewhat always somewhat lacking compared to the younger ones.

However, he did single handedly alter the history of Europe and the Western World at the battle of Waterloo. Which other person can say they changed the world as much as he did?

Therefore in my view, because of his achievements, Irish people should be proud to be associated with such a historical man. This is a vote on the "greatest" irish person, not the "nicest" or "kind hearted" person.

FrancieBrady

artemis268 wrote: »

I stand corrected.

However, Authur Wessley may be a **** person and a racist, but by today's laws he would be considered an Irish citizen and hence Irish.

I just think we should be the better people and look past that and let his achievements in life stand on his own. Ghandi was racist towards Africans but he's still celebrated. A lot of famous western scientists have also expressed racists attitudes. Times were different then, the older generation's education on multiculturalism/tolerance can be said to be somewhat always somewhat lacking compared to the younger ones.

However, he did single handedly alter the history of Europe and the Western World at the battle of Waterloo. Which other person can say they changed the world as much as he did?

I just think because of his achievements, he can be considered a "Great" man and one the Irish people should be proud to be associated with. This is a vote on the "greatest" irish person, not the "nicest" or "kind hearted" person.

TBH I think we should just leave somebody who expressed so vociferously his desire to be seen as British, alone.
It's what we are asked to do with the brethren in the north. Fair enough by me. He was British living in Ireland, which disqualifies him again.

Patser

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did he express his 'hate' for the Irish? Simple question.

I'd say shooting at them is the best expression. He did die in a gun fight in which he was firing.

But apart from the fun of winding you up, no I doubt Collins 'hated' the Irish.

Still doesn't make Wellesley less Irish, just less happy to be one.

FrancieBrady

Patser wrote: »

I'd say shooting at them is the best expression. He did die in a gun fight in which he was firing.

But apart from the fun of winding you up, no I doubt Collins 'hated' the Irish.

Still doesn't make Wellesley less Irish, just less happy to be one.

I'm trying to think of another country in the world which would annoint somebody as 'the greatest' if they had expressed the stuff this man did. I can't think of one.
Hat doffing is a peculiar illness indeed.

[Deleted User]

jmayo wrote: »

dev was a sleeveen who actually complained about Irish people emigrating even though his economic policies were adding to the reasons.
Oh and I think he is probably the only world leader to offer his condolences on the death of one mr hitler. :rolleyes:

And aren't you are supposed to be from Kerry and you haven't even supported Tom Crean as one of Ireland 's greats anywhere on this list.
For shame.

Actually some neutral countries did far more. Spain, for example, or Portugal where flags were flown at half mast. In that context, Dev's courtesy to the German ambassador - who he felt had been a far more courteous guest than the British ambassador, despite the assistance we gave the latter - was pretty low key.

I also think Kildare's Shackleton was greater than Crean. Who was no doubt a strong and stoic character...but Shackleton was the leader and inspiration for their survival against all the odds.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Eddie Moroney, would definitely by up there.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did he express his 'hate' for the Irish? Simple question.

Collins did sign us up for the Oath of Allegiance from our elected reps. And did use British artillery to shell Irish men in the Four Courts.

Meanwhile Wellesley introduced Catholic Emancipation.

I wouldn't say it's completely black and white...

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Collins did sign us up for the Oath of Allegiance from our elected reps. And did use British artillery to shell Irish men in the Four Courts.

Meanwhile Wellesley introduced Catholic Emancipation.

I wouldn't say it's completely black and white...

Did Collins express his hate of the Irish as a people? No, he didn't.

After that it is down to politics with Collins.

And Wellesley only supported Emancipation for his own selfish reasons. He raised the voting rights threshold to 10 pounds while it was 40 schillings in England. He was completely against the Irish being enfranchised. According to him the lower orders were 'scum of the earth' and the Irish were a 'nation of scoundrels'.
Lovely fella to be anointing.

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually some neutral countries did far more. Spain, for example, or Portugal where flags were flown at half mast. In that context, Dev's courtesy to the German ambassador - who he felt had been a far more courteous guest than the British ambassador, despite the assistance we gave the latter - was pretty low key.

I also think Kildare's Shackleton was greater than Crean. Who was no doubt a strong and stoic character...but Shackleton was the leader and inspiration for their survival against all the odds.

Portugal were a right wing country under Salazar just like Franco's Spain.
And after all Hitler had helped Franco into power.
Salazar disliked the Nazis but probably disliked communist Soviet Union more.

I would agree about Shackleton who was a fantastic leader, but going by the likes of FrancieBrady Shackleton wasn't a true Irishman.
After all he was of imported stock and went off to Britain.
Granted he didn't join the Royal Navy as Tom Crean did.

I wonder how apoplectic some would get if I nominated another Kerry man, one Mr Kitchener.

And can anyone explain why we have such a love affair with all things Guinness ?
The founder and descendants were discriminatory personified.

Patser

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm trying to think of another country in the world which would annoint somebody as 'the greatest' if they had expressed the stuff this man did. I can't think of one.
Hat doffing is a peculiar illness indeed.

The poet Patrick Kavanagh tore his home county Monaghan to shreds in a few of his poems, most memorably Stony Grey Soil - in which he said the land was crap, the accent crap, the people there walked hunched and basically it fecked up his youth and he's delighted to be out of there.

You'll recognise Monaghan when you drive into it by the Welcome to Kavanagh County signs, and the Visit the Kavanagh Centre sign.

Galway_Old_Man