Wibbs wrote: » I watched it on the oul player there and TBH I didn't get any of that "may not be well" stuff. I think that a) that's an all too easy out as far as discussion, b) projecting what people might want to assume and c) one hell of a presumption about someone. The main impression I got was of an awkward interview on both sides and that she's not used to much in the way of probing dissent(and/or ignores it). TT played very nice, a puff piece as it were and you could sense even then the shields coming down and just preach the gospel unopposed in her. A proper interview where the interviewer was up to speed and asked real questions and questioned her on some of the "facts" she espouses about this brand of "feminism" would not be comfortable for her at all. That she parroted the "equality" bit at the end without a hint of awareness or irony said much.
Sonics2k wrote: » midlandsmissus wrote: » But how is 80-90% of one gender in government a fair position anywhere? In that case - shouldn't there be sanctions, and people saying, 'you are treating the other gender badly, it needs to change'. See, the issue here midlandsmissus, is that those people in Govt were voted in by the people of Ireland. To enforce a quota, of any kind, goes directly against the democratic process. Let's make a hypothetical here; Assuming we're in Cork City so we'll make it easy and say 4 candidates can be voted in. 7 run, 5 of whom are male and 2 are female. Let's say that by the vote, 4 of the men were voted in. But the quota says the number must be equal, so they give 2 of the places to the 2 women are ran. Now, it turns out that one of those women got 1% of the overall voting base, because it turns out shes against Abortion for any reason, hates immigrants and refugees, and is basically a right wing nut. That woman, despite receiving no real votes is now a recognised TD in the State of Ireland. Now, obviously this is an extreme in terms of her beliefs, but the quota system does work exactly this way and it's terrible. You want more women in politics, get them to run. I go to weekly meetings down here in Cork and the amount of younger women who show up is dreadful, maybe 2-3 per meeting. Get them to go the meetings and get out there, get known to the party leads, get voted to the councils and work their way up because thats how it works.
midlandsmissus wrote: » But how is 80-90% of one gender in government a fair position anywhere? In that case - shouldn't there be sanctions, and people saying, 'you are treating the other gender badly, it needs to change'.
midlandsmissus wrote: » I disagree. I think that quotas need to be introduced where there are obvious instances of discrimination. The proposed political quota was not telling the public how to vote, it simply asked that political parties nominate a minimum of 30% female candidates. I am not saying one man in a political party in Ireland equals the views of all men in Ireland, but I really think that this system needs to change and I hope you see that. Quotas were put in place in Northern Ireland when protestants kept putting protestants into jobs. I just ask you to see that some women feel undervalued and underrepresented. When we all balance together, we all thrive.
midlandsmissus wrote: » ... obvious instances of discrimination.
darkdubh wrote: » If it was pint of Guinness there could be real problems. The white privileged head rising to the top over the black.
orubiru wrote: I will defend LON a little and say that what she suggests may be best for some couples and if that's what works for them then fine. You might have a handful of people who need the constant verbal consent "can I do this, can I do that, is this OK, are you sure, is this OK, can I do this now, are you sure, it it OK" and if that's what they require then fine.
infogiver wrote: » midlandsmissus wrote: » I disagree. I think that quotas need to be introduced where there are obvious instances of discrimination. The proposed political quota was not telling the public how to vote, it simply asked that political parties nominate a minimum of 30% female candidates. I am not saying one man in a political party in Ireland equals the views of all men in Ireland, but I really think that this system needs to change and I hope you see that. Quotas were put in place in Northern Ireland when protestants kept putting protestants into jobs. I just ask you to see that some women feel undervalued and underrepresented. When we all balance together, we all thrive. I'm working for 30 years in a mixed gender environment. I socialise and I'm a parent and a wife and a daughter and a sister and a colleague and I've never ever once felt either undervalued or under represented. I'm genuinely interested in hearing some examples of how you have been made to feel undervalued midlandsmissus, as well as examples of how a woman putting herself forward for a public service position recently was prevented from doing so by "patriarchy", as at 52 and having lived in a large urban environment and a medium sized rural environment I can honestly say I've never come across it.
Zulu wrote: » midlandsmissus wrote: » ... obvious instances of discrimination. where? I ask because we have laws preventing gender discrimination, so "obvious instances" should be easy to legally pursue. And yet we don't see that. Which leads me to think you are talking out of your arse, or have a persecution complex.
The_Captain wrote: Implied consent is still a form of consent
midlandsmissus wrote: » I would like you to think in reverse, the government stands at 80% female 20% male due to political parties nominating predominantly female candidates, (not to how the public is voting). How would you feel in this country?
The_Captain wrote: » Implied consent is still a form of consent
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » So is assumed consent according to some esteemed posters. I'm not sure about how you know you have implied consent without a degree of telepathy or assumption
silverharp wrote: I'd assume he means non verbal which is a perfectly valid feedback. Surely there has to be responsibility on both sides? if the fictional woman that needs to be assured with verbal questions at every point actually exists then ought that person stay away from hook ups in the first place? or do you think woman don't have full agency?
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Is it ridiculous? There's no indication that the woman has gained any consent in the scenario you outlined. Why is it ridiculous?
not going as far as the poster went as that was for comedic effect
Wibbs wrote: » Eh… So in your mind in that scenario the individuals intentions and desire are still in doubt? Would the intentions and desire be less in doubt if the genders were reversed? You do realise that that scenario is hardly going "as far" as you seem to think and happens a lot. Women with healthy sexual needs expressing same. Who'da thunk it eh?
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » No idea where your getting agency from what I said. I mafe no mention of agency. I followed the poster's line of argument. Some people need to be asked explicitly (not going as far as the poster went as that was for comedic effect). How would you know if you're with such a person... unless you ask?
Sonics2k wrote: » Are you involved in politics yourself? How often do you show up to the meetings for your political party? I got to tell you, I'm directly involved with a political party here in Ireland. I'm not planning on running for a seat or anything, but at least I'm out there. Our party is crying out for liberal minded people who are actually willing to go out there and try to change the system, rather than just sitting at home complaining about it online. I'm a proud socialist liberal and I truly believe all people are equal, but the problem with the left has always been that they are kinda lazy. Happier to sit around complaining on Twitter, going to yet another pointless protest but never actually trying to get into the Govt and try to change things. You want to know why there are more men in the likes of FG and FF, it's because they actually made the effort to do all the ground work involved to get in to the Dail.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » I get that you're exaggerating for effect but you hit on an interesting point. If you're having a casual hook-up, how would you now whether you're with one of those people who needs to be asked or not unless you ask? And when a woman shows up at a police station the morning after a casual hook-up, most men on these threads seem to assume she simply felt regretful about having sex so she's crying 'rape'.
Wibbs wrote: Eh… So in your mind in that scenario the individuals intentions and desire are still in doubt? Would the intentions and desire be less in doubt if the genders were reversed?
neonsofa wrote: The poster is in doubt regarding the males desire in that case I think.
givyjoe wrote: Ah here, im sorry but are you a virgin or do you have really mechanical, insanely planned and pre thought out sex? The fact that he doesn't stop, and continues to thrust is a fairly obvious indicator of consent.
silverharp wrote: you seem to be assuming that some women are completely incapable of giving input into a situation where there is no violence or coercion , that reeks of non agency to me. One shouldn't have to ask because all the prior behaviour as one of the posters colourfully describes indicates that this is not the case. .
silverharp wrote: Also why would men need to be amateur psychologists in this situation? You are describing an individual most men would never have come across
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » I'm in a long term relationship so my partner and i know where we stand. In the scenario above consent wasn't established, it was assumed. It was probably correctly assumed which is fine. When consent is incorrectly assumed, then what do you call it? - hint, the answer might be rape.
