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Civil Engineering - We need to talk about money

SteadyNed

Folks,
I’m 5 years working as a Civil/Geotechnical Engineer in a consultancy environment in Ireland – not yet chartered, but planning to be within 6 months.
We need to open a discussion about the White Elephant in the Civil Engineering profession – money. Having worked for 5 years in the industry, I have a full appreciation of pay scales in the profession, and frankly, it’s terrible.

We've all had discussions with friends who are solicitors, accountants etc, (careers which I would see as having similar entry requirements, attributes, demands and working hours) it becomes clear that pay comparisons are shocking. We’re talking about earning 30-50% less once you’ve exited the initial/graduate phases of employment, and the gap widens significantly with experience.

So – what are the solutions? Are there any or is the profession simply doomed to poor pay? Pay levels for engineers outside the UK and Ireland are reasonable - is it a supply/demand issue on our shores?

Changing professions would break my heart, but if I ever want to be a home owner, and make a comfortable life, it may be necessary.

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thebsharp

thebsharp wrote: »

In Ireland, there's very few industries where you won't be putting in a decent shift to earn that kind of money. Only one or two people I know get away with it and their jobs are still tough.

Government/semi state engineering jobs pay well for reasonable hours but most positions advertised are fixed term contracts these days.

In terms of the working population as a whole, I'd say a very small % of individuals earn above 60k, and that includes people having had increments right the way up until retirement.

Although I hadn't realised engineers here can work that much. Don't think any projects I've ever worked on have moved fast enough to justify 70 hours in a week, they were all just heading for a shelf either way!

lawred2

godtabh wrote: »

If that's your reality that's a pity.

What?

Silo18

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Interesting thread.

I’m probably a bit older than most of the posters so I’ll give you my own experience over a longer period as a Civil Engineer.

I graduated in 1998, in retrospect a great time to graduate. I worked in London for a while as a site Engineer and was making very decent money, admittedly working 10hour days and another 6 hours on a Saturday.

Moved back to Dublin after 6 months and joined a Consultancy and was immediately struck by how much my salary dropped. OK, it was 9-5, Mon-Fri but I was on a very small salary. I worked there for 2 years and went to Oz for a year on a working visa.

When I got back to Ireland in early 2001, things got interesting.

I picked up work straight away in a multi-disciplinary consultancy on a salary that was far higher than the one I’d left 12 months previously.

Things were really taking off in the Construction sector, some of the big jobs we had with LA Clients were paying on a time-charge basis. The company was bringing in a lot of money. Staff were becoming difficult to attract and retain. Salary packages became more attractive.

I bought a house in a nice suburban area of Dublin in late 2001 before prices went mental.

I got promoted quickly up the career ladder. I never considered myself to be brilliant, but I was able to deliver good quality work to Clients on time and could manage teams to deliver work quite well.

By 2007 my overall package including pension, car allowance, health insurance, bonuses, was worth well over €100k.

It was great.

I look back on it now, a decade later and it seems unreal. In retrospect it was unreal, it was a bubble economy and a bubble salary – I’m extremely lucky that my cautious nature kicked in, I didn’t go mad. Most of my colleagues were trading up to bigger houses and bigger cars, hell, even buying investment properties in Ireland and abroad – that’s what you did right?

As for myself and my wife, we concentrated on paying off our mortgage. Honestly we sometimes used to question if we were mad. All around us people were spending money because there was more and more coming in and we were there still in our 3bed semi-detached – where was our ambition and drive I’d sometimes wonder?

The crash hit hard in 2009.

Fees dried up quickly, no new work was coming in. Our company overheads were huge and our income shrinking fast.

We started shedding jobs and cutting salaries but by the end of 2010 the company went into liquidation.

My friends and colleagues either joined the dole queues or emigrated.

I was lucky. I got a job with another multi-national consultancy in Dublin. I took about a 50% cut in salary and dropped down 2 two grades, but I considered myself extremely fortunate.

And there I stayed for 6 years. I didn’t enjoy the work, I didn’t particularly like the company but what choice did I have?

We sold our house in Dublin and bought one down the Country, it meant a longer commute but we had 2 kids at this stage and wanted to be closer to our families.

Last year I took another (smaller) cut in Salary and joined a place about 20 minutes’ drive away.

Right now I make €50k.

But, I’m happy. We’re financially secure and I’m enjoying being a Civil Engineer again after a long time of hating it.

My two biggest advantages were, having a wife who worked in a very good industry who’s salary was never that affected by the downturn, and not taking on a lot of debt during the boom years.

My take on Civil Engineering and salary.

First off, without being bombastic about it, Civil Engineering is one of the most important professions in the World. Unfortunately it’s not appreciated by the public at large who’ve been raised on a diet of Suits and Good Wife and think the Legal profession arguing over the meaning of Contract Clauses is the height of industry.

It really makes my blood boil to see the fees the legal profession can charge compared to our industry.

Secondly, our industry is for too cyclical and far too dependent on Government spending.

When times get tough the Capital budget is the first thing cut because spineless politicians find this far more palatable than telling the Guards, the Teachers or the Nurses that they’ll need to take a 5% pay cut.

It’s mostly for those reasons I will do everything I can to encourage my kids not to go into Engineering, especially not Civil.

It’s a shame because the world needs Civil Engineers. I foresee another boom coming in the next few years, it’s becoming apparent that there is a shortage of graduates entering the industry and the same boom-bust cycle will probably play itself out all over again.

It’s depressing that we seem to learn nothing from the mistakes of the past but that’s as much a fault of the short-sighted electorate who elect the gombeen politicians.

My advice for any young graduates reading is, if the good times start to roll you can be certain they’re going to come to a juddering halt. Maximise your earnings during the boom but do not over-extend yourself. If you want a more stable income then get out of Civil Engineering entirely.

Good luck.

[Deleted User]

In transition year our applied maths teacher (1996) reckoned civil engineers were two a penny and he advised us to go the mech or electrical eng route.

thebsharp

Silo18 wrote: »

Web
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Primary

Interesting thread.

I’m probably a bit older than most of the posters so I’ll give you my own experience over a longer period as a Civil Engineer.

I graduated in 1998, in retrospect a great time to graduate. I worked in London for a while as a site Engineer and was making very decent money, admittedly working 10hour days and another 6 hours on a Saturday.

Moved back to Dublin after 6 months and joined a Consultancy and was immediately struck by how much my salary dropped. OK, it was 9-5, Mon-Fri but I was on a very small salary. I worked there for 2 years and went to Oz for a year on a working visa.

When I got back to Ireland in early 2001, things got interesting.

I picked up work straight away in a multi-disciplinary consultancy on a salary that was far higher than the one I’d left 12 months previously.

Things were really taking off in the Construction sector, some of the big jobs we had with LA Clients were paying on a time-charge basis. The company was bringing in a lot of money. Staff were becoming difficult to attract and retain. Salary packages became more attractive.

I bought a house in a nice suburban area of Dublin in late 2001 before prices went mental.

I got promoted quickly up the career ladder. I never considered myself to be brilliant, but I was able to deliver good quality work to Clients on time and could manage teams to deliver work quite well.

By 2007 my overall package including pension, car allowance, health insurance, bonuses, was worth well over €100k.

It was great.

I look back on it now, a decade later and it seems unreal. In retrospect it was unreal, it was a bubble economy and a bubble salary – I’m extremely lucky that my cautious nature kicked in, I didn’t go mad. Most of my colleagues were trading up to bigger houses and bigger cars, hell, even buying investment properties in Ireland and abroad – that’s what you did right?

As for myself and my wife, we concentrated on paying off our mortgage. Honestly we sometimes used to question if we were mad. All around us people were spending money because there was more and more coming in and we were there still in our 3bed semi-detached – where was our ambition and drive I’d sometimes wonder?

The crash hit hard in 2009.

Fees dried up quickly, no new work was coming in. Our company overheads were huge and our income shrinking fast.

We started shedding jobs and cutting salaries but by the end of 2010 the company went into liquidation.

My friends and colleagues either joined the dole queues or emigrated.

I was lucky. I got a job with another multi-national consultancy in Dublin. I took about a 50% cut in salary and dropped down 2 two grades, but I considered myself extremely fortunate.

And there I stayed for 6 years. I didn’t enjoy the work, I didn’t particularly like the company but what choice did I have?

We sold our house in Dublin and bought one down the Country, it meant a longer commute but we had 2 kids at this stage and wanted to be closer to our families.

Last year I took another (smaller) cut in Salary and joined a place about 20 minutes’ drive away.

Right now I make €50k.

But, I’m happy. We’re financially secure and I’m enjoying being a Civil Engineer again after a long time of hating it.

My two biggest advantages were, having a wife who worked in a very good industry who’s salary was never that affected by the downturn, and not taking on a lot of debt during the boom years.

My take on Civil Engineering and salary.

First off, without being bombastic about it, Civil Engineering is one of the most important professions in the World. Unfortunately it’s not appreciated by the public at large who’ve been raised on a diet of Suits and Good Wife and think the Legal profession arguing over the meaning of Contract Clauses is the height of industry.

It really makes my blood boil to see the fees the legal profession can charge compared to our industry.

Secondly, our industry is for too cyclical and far too dependent on Government spending.

When times get tough the Capital budget is the first thing cut because spineless politicians find this far more palatable than telling the Guards, the Teachers or the Nurses that they’ll need to take a 5% pay cut.

It’s mostly for those reasons I will do everything I can to encourage my kids not to go into Engineering, especially not Civil.

It’s a shame because the world needs Civil Engineers. I foresee another boom coming in the next few years, it’s becoming apparent that there is a shortage of graduates entering the industry and the same boom-bust cycle will probably play itself out all over again.

It’s depressing that we seem to learn nothing from the mistakes of the past but that’s as much a fault of the short-sighted electorate who elect the gombeen politicians.

My advice for any young graduates reading is, if the good times start to roll you can be certain they’re going to come to a juddering halt. Maximise your earnings during the boom but do not over-extend yourself. If you want a more stable income then get out of Civil Engineering entirely.

Good luck.

Really appreciated that read, thanks. Sounds like you've had quite the journey along the way, which there's a lot to be said for in life.

lawred2

Silo18 wrote: »

Web
more
Primary

Interesting thread.

I’m probably a bit older than most of the posters so I’ll give you my own experience over a longer period as a Civil Engineer.

I graduated in 1998, in retrospect a great time to graduate. I worked in London for a while as a site Engineer and was making very decent money, admittedly working 10hour days and another 6 hours on a Saturday.

Moved back to Dublin after 6 months and joined a Consultancy and was immediately struck by how much my salary dropped. OK, it was 9-5, Mon-Fri but I was on a very small salary. I worked there for 2 years and went to Oz for a year on a working visa.

When I got back to Ireland in early 2001, things got interesting.

I picked up work straight away in a multi-disciplinary consultancy on a salary that was far higher than the one I’d left 12 months previously.

Things were really taking off in the Construction sector, some of the big jobs we had with LA Clients were paying on a time-charge basis. The company was bringing in a lot of money. Staff were becoming difficult to attract and retain. Salary packages became more attractive.

I bought a house in a nice suburban area of Dublin in late 2001 before prices went mental.

I got promoted quickly up the career ladder. I never considered myself to be brilliant, but I was able to deliver good quality work to Clients on time and could manage teams to deliver work quite well.

By 2007 my overall package including pension, car allowance, health insurance, bonuses, was worth well over €100k.

It was great.

I look back on it now, a decade later and it seems unreal. In retrospect it was unreal, it was a bubble economy and a bubble salary – I’m extremely lucky that my cautious nature kicked in, I didn’t go mad. Most of my colleagues were trading up to bigger houses and bigger cars, hell, even buying investment properties in Ireland and abroad – that’s what you did right?

As for myself and my wife, we concentrated on paying off our mortgage. Honestly we sometimes used to question if we were mad. All around us people were spending money because there was more and more coming in and we were there still in our 3bed semi-detached – where was our ambition and drive I’d sometimes wonder?

The crash hit hard in 2009.

Fees dried up quickly, no new work was coming in. Our company overheads were huge and our income shrinking fast.

We started shedding jobs and cutting salaries but by the end of 2010 the company went into liquidation.

My friends and colleagues either joined the dole queues or emigrated.

I was lucky. I got a job with another multi-national consultancy in Dublin. I took about a 50% cut in salary and dropped down 2 two grades, but I considered myself extremely fortunate.

And there I stayed for 6 years. I didn’t enjoy the work, I didn’t particularly like the company but what choice did I have?

We sold our house in Dublin and bought one down the Country, it meant a longer commute but we had 2 kids at this stage and wanted to be closer to our families.

Last year I took another (smaller) cut in Salary and joined a place about 20 minutes’ drive away.

Right now I make €50k.

But, I’m happy. We’re financially secure and I’m enjoying being a Civil Engineer again after a long time of hating it.

My two biggest advantages were, having a wife who worked in a very good industry who’s salary was never that affected by the downturn, and not taking on a lot of debt during the boom years.

My take on Civil Engineering and salary.

First off, without being bombastic about it, Civil Engineering is one of the most important professions in the World. Unfortunately it’s not appreciated by the public at large who’ve been raised on a diet of Suits and Good Wife and think the Legal profession arguing over the meaning of Contract Clauses is the height of industry.

It really makes my blood boil to see the fees the legal profession can charge compared to our industry.

Secondly, our industry is for too cyclical and far too dependent on Government spending.

When times get tough the Capital budget is the first thing cut because spineless politicians find this far more palatable than telling the Guards, the Teachers or the Nurses that they’ll need to take a 5% pay cut.

It’s mostly for those reasons I will do everything I can to encourage my kids not to go into Engineering, especially not Civil.

It’s a shame because the world needs Civil Engineers. I foresee another boom coming in the next few years, it’s becoming apparent that there is a shortage of graduates entering the industry and the same boom-bust cycle will probably play itself out all over again.

It’s depressing that we seem to learn nothing from the mistakes of the past but that’s as much a fault of the short-sighted electorate who elect the gombeen politicians.

My advice for any young graduates reading is, if the good times start to roll you can be certain they’re going to come to a juddering halt. Maximise your earnings during the boom but do not over-extend yourself. If you want a more stable income then get out of Civil Engineering entirely.

Good luck.

or be prepared to travel the world and follow the work.

Ireland is simply too small in so many ways. The most detrimental being small in mind.

As you say, first thing to go is the capital budget. Sure look at the bolloxology with the Children's hospital, Dart Underground and Metro North.. 3 projects that would have been completed 5 times over since inception in most developed nations around the world at this stage.

But yet here in Ireland those three projects have enriched many without a shovel in the ground.

The only reason we have motorways is largely because FF could CPO their way about the country.

Tefral

lawred2 wrote: »

or be prepared to travel the world and follow the work..

All well and good, and honestly if you want to the big bucks you have to follow the money, however most of the engineer colleagues and friends i would know that are nearing 60k are well off from working in Saudi, Qatar, south africa etc. However, most have failed marraiges etc from working away earning the money.. Its a trade off.

Dunphus

Edit: Wrong thread completely

SteadyNed

Finally done.

Constantly working the guts of 50-55hours/week, PM-ing a number of projects as well as maintaining technical analysis and reporting.

I've figured I'm getting paid a similar salary to my counterparts in the industry. Allowing for those hours, we're earning about stg£11.50/hr (before tax) equating to £9.20/hr after tax. Working in NI.

Frankly, what's the point?

We could have foregone the top 5% Leaving Cert results, neglected our natural aptitude for mathematics and numerical analysis, university debt, hours-upon-hours of study and ultimately, the stress that permeates this industry to drive a digger, a luas, work in tesco or any amount of jobs that contain very little stress for similar or better reward.

Going to go travelling for a year, after which, I'll be researching viable alternative career paths. Thinking along the lines of data analysis or quality management.

It's a real pity, because I used to love the job. The bitterness just got to me in the end.

AAAAAAAAA

1 year working, 32k at the moment (started 28k), expect to go up a bit when the salary review rolls in around easter. Not enough at all to be honest, especially considering the sheer expense of living in Dublin. Absolute kick in the teeth to see that a friend graduating the same time as me in law started about 15k higher and has had more frequent salary reviews and increases.

Seems similar for my mates (at least, similar pay for similar work, couple site engineers are on better money but the ludicrous hours mean the hourly is the same or worse), but I'm not happy at all despite generally liking the work. Probably going to have to find some other job unless rent is slashed (lol) or my salary is increased by 50% (also lol)

Is lack of unionisation and lobbying the problem?

The Rape of Lucretia

Stunned at some of the above. Are we talking exclusively about civil here? My experience is in mechanical and manufacturing and salaries are well beyond the ones cited, and without the extraordinary hours.

Edit: Sorry, I see that we are (thread title

). What is the cause? Over supply ?

onrail

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

1 year working, 32k at the moment (started 28k)

Is lack of unionisation and lobbying the problem?

And that 32k is on the back of a general salary increase over the last 18-24 months! I was offered 34k with 4 years experience a couple of years back.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

Stunned at some of the above. Are we talking exclusively about civil here? My experience is in mechanical and manufacturing and salaries are well beyond the ones cited, and without the extraordinary hours.

What sort of salaries are we talking about here?

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

What is the cause? Over supply ?

Historically - possibly, but at the minute employers are screaming out for people.

As a profession, I think we've been poor in the past in standing up for ourselves and Engineer's Ireland haven't been much(any) help. All I can see is their campaigning in schools to get kids into STEM subjects, then subsequently abandon them once employed!

If we are to ever make a stand, now is the time. There are teachers, bus drivers, nurses and farmers all marching the streets and getting results while we sit idly by on salaries worse than those above!

jeonahr

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Stunned at some of the above. Are we talking exclusively about civil here? My experience is in mechanical and manufacturing and salaries are well beyond the ones cited, and without the extraordinary hours.

Edit: Sorry, I see that we are (thread title ). What is the cause? Over supply ?

I'm getting stunned myself. I'm currently in Transition Year looking through threads on engineering because I'm looking into it as a career and obviously I want to know the salary and wages. Is it only like this for civil? What about electronic and the other specialisations?

Dardania

jeonahr wrote: »

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Stunned at some of the above. Are we talking exclusively about civil here? My experience is in mechanical and manufacturing and salaries are well beyond the ones cited, and without the extraordinary hours.

Edit: Sorry, I see that we are (thread title ). What is the cause? Over supply ?

I'm getting stunned myself. I'm currently in Transition Year looking through threads on engineering because I'm looking into it as a career and obviously I want to know the salary and wages. Is it only like this for civil? What about electronic and the other specialisations?

All good in controls & automation world if you're prepared to work hard & travel - there are less control & automation versus market demand, compared to civil

Wanderer78

jeonahr wrote:

I'm getting stunned myself. I'm currently in Transition Year looking through threads on engineering because I'm looking into it as a career and obviously I want to know the salary and wages. Is it only like this for civil? What about electronic and the other specialisations?

I personally think our educational system is a mess, you should not be pressurised in anyway of making decisions like this, but our system is designed so. I'd personally would recommend not overly thinking about this and chose an area that truly interests and motivates you. Ignore how much your gonna earn etc. It's great to see you doing research into this but don't over think it, and make sure you enjoy your time in education, not just studying but actually interacting with friends and teachers etc. The market fluctuates and changes, nobody can foresee it's exact future, flexibility is key and willingness to change. I wish you the very best of luck and I'm sure your future will be successful

The Rape of Lucretia

onrail wrote: »

What sort of salaries are we talking about here?

Starting lowish maybe in the 20s or just about 30, but increasing rapidly in the first few years to 40 and 50 after 5 years or so maybe with some time doing shift work within that but also gaining a further premium while doing so.
After that I guess a majority settle somewhere in the range 70-100 depending on how good they are, the size of the company, its industry, whether they put up with odd hours or extensive travel etc. But something in that range quite typical for a 'normal' daytime 40something hour week, and predominantly working at a home base in Ireland.
The particularly talented, specialist, or those assuming the responsibility of management moving beyond the 100k, but if small numbers admittedly.
I have found experienced engineers in automation, manufacturing, maintenance, and mechanical at middle managerial level, hard to find over the last few years - a distinct shortage I would say.

Sparks

jeonahr wrote: »

I'm getting stunned myself. I'm currently in Transition Year looking through threads on engineering because I'm looking into it as a career and obviously I want to know the salary and wages. Is it only like this for civil? What about electronic and the other specialisations?

Computer engineering makes a hell of a lot more than Civil, it seems to be particularly bad for Civil. There are several salary studies published every year, some are linked in this thread IIRC.

Wanderer78

Sparks wrote: »

Computer engineering makes a hell of a lot more than Civil, it seems to be particularly bad for Civil. There are several salary studies published every year, some are linked in this thread IIRC.

mates a civil engineer, done very well for himself in the mines in australia

Dardania

Article on the topic. The EIB being setup in Ireland bodes well;

https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/working-abroad/what-s-on-offer-in-construction-for-emigrants-who-want-to-move-home-1.3032433?mode=amp

Dr_Bill

While I don't expect to see the Australian wages make their way into the Irish construction industry, rates of pay will have to increase as good talented professionals become scarce. Cost of living is expensive between, tax, rent, property tax, creche fees salaries will need to harden to entice people back!
All well and good paying young engineers 25k but where are we going when their rent is 12k a year?

Lu Tze

jeonahr wrote: »

I'm getting stunned myself. I'm currently in Transition Year looking through threads on engineering because I'm looking into it as a career and obviously I want to know the salary and wages. Is it only like this for civil? What about electronic and the other specialisations?

It varies between disciplines, the same goes for the wider STEM disciplines despite what the media would have you believe. Keep in mind what is in demand now (with commensurate salaries) may not be in demand when you graduate.

If I didn't enjoy the work and the challenge, I certainly wouldn't be staying in engineering for the salary! Follow your interests, you can't predict the demand/supply into the future, you may as well work at something you enjoy, be that engineering or something else.

Johnnyhpipe

On a positive note, and so as not to completely deter any transition year students from engineering(!!) - I'm a chartered structural engineer. I have 12 years experience, personally I really enjoy my job and am currently happy with my salary which is about €75k this year.

The recession was absolutely crippling, I won't lie. Thankfully I came through on the right side, which many didn't. Its important not to focus on the negative reports you hear.

If I was to do it all over again, would i study structural engineering? Yes.

con1982

75k is an excellent salary. I assume you are an associate director or similar.

I'm in the 10-15yrs experience bracket too. Having spoken with former classmates, the average salary is 55 - 65k for civil/structural. Although some are 75k plus, depending on the company. All based in Dublin.

Gumbo

Current shortage of graduates also.
My old firm are hunting staff and are saying that the big companies are swallowing up all the graduates.

(Civil/structural)

onrail

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

On a positive note, and so as not to completely deter any transition year students from engineering(!!) - I'm a chartered structural engineer. I have 12 years experience, personally I really enjoy my job and am currently happy with my salary which is about €75k this year.

The recession was absolutely crippling, I won't lie. Thankfully I came through on the right side, which many didn't. Its important not to focus on the negative reports you hear.

If I was to do it all over again, would i study structural engineering? Yes.

A really excellent salary - fair play. You must be brilliant at your job.

...but the exception rather than the rule! As a comparison, friends of mine in accountancy are making the same money 5 years post-grad!

thebsharp

I've been lured back in to civil engineering, transport planning to be exact. Now on 71k which includes guaranteed 10% car allowance.

I've had three jobs in the last two years which is a lot. I felt an element of guilt about moving on so quickly but had given both previous roles my all to be fair. There were no decent opportunities in either of the last two places and my bosses completely understood why I was moving.
Two years ago my salary was 40k. I've become chartered and have been studying Business in my own time; these have definitely helped make a difference.
I can't see general salaries in civil engineering moving much anytime soon. The profit margins on most projects are just too tight. Working with money is where the big money is made at the end of the day.
Civil engineering can be incredibly rewarding on the right projects, and I'm lucky to have one or two of those at the minute. I'll stick with it for now but having the business qualification will be my fall back.

Borzoi

Silo18 wrote: »

It’s mostly for those reasons I will do everything I can to encourage my kids not to go into Engineering, especially not Civil.

.

I'm a mech engineer, graduated 2 years before you. and because I worked in construction would have had a similar experience. I would definitely push my kids away from construction- it's too cyclical. Other engineering sectors seem more stable and better paid too. I look at IT, and finance where the basic skill set is similar, but the salaries are better and the work always there and suggest to any student to look at those areas over engineering

Ravenerabnorm

Civil Engineer working for a design consultancy. Nearly 5 years experience and earning a pathetic €36k. I just scrape by to be honest.
I graduated 2012 and it was pretty much kill or be killed for a job. I managed to find one and gladly accepted the pittance I was paid as was the mentality at the time "be thankful you even have a job".

Luckily for me I work overtime sparingly, where I work is quite good at throwing resources at projects. If I do have to work major overtime like many of my peers do in the future I intend to ask for an increase in salary. I may look like a dick when this happens but this "it comes with the job" bullcrap grinds my gears. Fair enough if you're extremely passionate about what you do but you should be compensated.

There are jobs available nowadays and the salaries appear to be increasing significantly at entry level. The only way I see myself making money whilst staying in a similar role in the next few years is to job hop and take the almost guaranteed 5-10% increase they will offer. The thought of which makes me gag.

Alkers

Ravenerabnorm wrote:

Civil Engineer working for a design consultancy. Nearly 5 years experience and earning a pathetic â‚¬36k. I just scrape by to be honest. I graduated 2012 and it was pretty much kill or be killed for a job. I managed to find one and gladly accepted the pittance I was paid as was the mentality at the time "be thankful you even have a job".

I've heard of grads this year being offered 28k - 31k, you should be on more than 36k. I've 4 years experience (not chartered) and I'm just over 40k

David6330

Been following this thread with interest.

I'm a mechanical engineer and graduated in 2011. Worked in the UK for 5 years since graduation. Finished up on 40k GBP p.a. last year before I moved home, which I consider being a pretty decent salary by UK standards.

Now coming towards the end of a full-time master's and looking to break into the industrial automation sector. It has been a struggle so far trying to get my foot in the door