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Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

beveragelady

I called An Post today to try to sort out a problem with deliveries. The customer service chap was very helpful and I think it all got sorted.
The thing is, I tried to give him my Eircode because I live at a vague rural address but he said that they're not using them because the system isn't set up.
Amazed!
It's bad enough that they're no good to users of satnavs or google maps, but this is just astonishing. Can anybody explain how this could have been launched to such fanfare when it's all but meaningless?

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sondagefaux

gctest50 wrote: »

I see the Loc8 twitter is getting more cretinous

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3pw1bKWAAAl2C3.jpg

I've posted the tweet about myself on the other thread. I wonder how many hours per day these guys (or maybe it's just one person?) spend ranting about the evils of Eircodes?
Lads, ye lost out to a different system and a different company.
Get over it, move on and do something constructive with your lives.

beauf

Have to say I don't use either Google maps is so good that I've never needed to use a LOC8, or Eircode to find anything.

[Deleted User]

gctest50 wrote: »

I see the Loc8 twitter is getting more cretinous

Looks like I've touched a raw nerve!
But, in reality it has been (generally speaking) implemented, there will be some who haven't incorporated it into their systems yet and some may never get around to doing it.

It's a bit like rural electrification, it was rolled out and completed, but some isolated properties were never reached and they never will be, but the project was marked as complete.

antoinolachtnai

Dave_Dublin wrote: »

I'm having a problem with deliveries since the Eircodes were introduced.

I added the Eircode to my address instead of "Dublin 7" since the code starts "D07" and I've been waited nearly 4 weeks for something that should've been here in 4 days!

You don't really have the correct address on there. The correct address is not:

XXX Road Name
Dublin
D07 XXXX

It should be

XXX Road Name
Dublin 7
D07 XXXX

See for example on the eircode website:

DISTRICT COURT CLERK
COURTS SERVICE
ÁRAS UÍ DHÁLAIGH
FOUR COURTS
INN'S QUAY
DUBLIN 7
D07 N972

(I don't make this stuff up, I'm just telling you the strict rule. Certainly, there is a training problem here.)

Mod: Can posters stop using large size text. If the post appears to be large size, then edit the post to remove the 'size=n' or change it to 'size=1'
That post quoted was from August 2015 - hardly relevant.

I will delete such posts that contain oversize text in future.

Bray Head

I find it strange that eircode still puts in Dublin 2 and D02. To me it seems redundant.

I think in an Oireachtas hearing about two years back someone from eircode or DCENR said that many people feel that 'Dublin 2' is part of their address, and to suggest removing it in favour of just using the eircode might, ironically, bring about resistance to using eircode.

TheChizler

Bray Head wrote: »

I find it strange that eircode still puts in Dublin 2 and D02. To me it seems redundant.

I think in an Oireachtas hearing about two years back someone from eircode or DCENR said that many people feel that 'Dublin 2' is part of their address, and to suggest removing it in favour of just using the eircode might, ironically, bring about resistance to using eircode.

One of the major ideas behind Eircode was that your existing address stays the same, and just append the code on to the end of it. That would be contradicted by getting rid if the Dublin XX bit.

oscarBravo

It would be nice to get to the point where the redundancy is optional, mind - to be able to omit the "Dublin 2" if a "D02" eircode were included. I guess that's up to An Post's implementation.

sondagefaux

oscarBravo wrote: »

It would be nice to get to the point where the redundancy is optional, mind - to be able to omit the "Dublin 2" if a "D02" eircode were included. I guess that's up to An Post's implementation.

You obviously only have to do it that way if you're using An Post...

spuddy

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You don't really have the correct address on there. The correct address is not:

XXX Road Name
Dublin
D07 XXXX

It should be

XXX Road Name
Dublin 7
D07 XXXX

See for example on the eircode website:

DISTRICT COURT CLERK
COURTS SERVICE
ÁRAS UÍ DHÁLAIGH
FOUR COURTS
INN'S QUAY
DUBLIN 7
D07 N972

(I don't make this stuff up, I'm just telling you the strict rule. Certainly, there is a training problem here.)
[/B]

You're correct, but keeping the postal district as part of the address was a way of managing the introduction of Eircodes (memories of the D6W debacle springing to mind no doubt). I can't help but think people will start questioning the benefit of effectively writing the same information twice, and we'll ultimately see the slow demise of Dublin 7's and their ilk over time.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say, and I see that some Government departments are even starting to do this... (link)

sondagefaux

According to this, you can use either the postal address, a geographic address or a preferred address.
https://www.autoaddress.ie/blog/autoaddressblog/2017/02/09/irish-addressing-explained-postal-geographic-and-preferred-address
Presumably this means you can leave out the number of the Dublin postal district and just use the Eircode.
That's not the postal address as used by An Post but it's not compulsory to use that form of the address, although it may delay delivery if you don't.

sondagefaux

Bray Head wrote: »

I find it strange that eircode still puts in Dublin 2 and D02. To me it seems redundant.

I think in an Oireachtas hearing about two years back someone from eircode or DCENR said that many people feel that 'Dublin 2' is part of their address, and to suggest removing it in favour of just using the eircode might, ironically, bring about resistance to using eircode.

It seems people in other cities feel the same too:

Trade Facilitation Agreement Facility
World Trade Organization

Centre William Rappard
Rue de Lausanne 154
CH-1211
Geneva 21
Switzerland

http://www.tfafacility.org/trade-facilitation-agreement-enters-force-1

The postcode is 1211 (the CH prefix stands for Switzerland, not strictly required), but the address still includes the postal district of Geneva 21, despite the fact that Switzerland has had four-digit postcodes for decades.

ingredients_de.7.full.jpg

Similarly with this address which includes the postal district of Praha 5 (Prague 5) even though there's a five-digit postcode in the address.

It's not exactly unusual to see old postal or other districts incorporated into modern postcodes.

Paris addresses are in the format 750XX, where 75 is the numeric code for the administrative area of the Ville de Paris* and the rest is basically the arrondissement (district) number. For example, addresses in the 8th Arrondissement of Paris will generally have the postcode 75008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrondissements_of_Paris

Basically 75008 is a fancy way of saying Paris 8 and it's got as much (or as little) granularity as if it were Paris 8, unless there's a Cedex suffix attached.

*French Départements, roughly the equivalent of counties, are given numbers: http://www.map-france.com/departments/) which usually appear in the first two numbers of postcodes within those départements. Paris is treated as if it were the equivalent of a département.

Similarly in New York city, once upon a time divided into postal districts such as New York 1 etc.

New York 1 was assigned the zip code 10001 when they were introduced.

BlinkingLights

I've dropped the Dublin district code and the letters arrived perfectly on time.

Maybe it was just a temporary issue until they got the Eircodes implemented in all of An Post's OCR systems?

The logical way of implementing it would be to have both initially and then phase out the old system?

Street address (for the postman) and Eircodes for the sorting system should eventually be more than enough.

PDVerse

BlinkingLights wrote: »

I've dropped the Dublin district code and the letters arrived perfectly on time.

Maybe it was just a temporary issue until they got the Eircodes implemented in all of An Post's OCR systems?

The logical way of implementing it would be to have both initially and then phase out the old system?

Street address (for the postman) and Eircodes for the sorting system should eventually be more than enough.

Its best practice to leave your address unchanged and just add Eircode as the last line as its a bit more complicated than people might be aware of. Parts of Co. Dublin (that really are Co. Dublin) have D24 Eircodes and parts of Co. Meath (miles from the Dublin border) have D15 Eircodes. The Routing Key denotes your principal post town as defined by An Post, but existing Dublin Postal Districts have become part of peoples addresses.

You can see Routing Key boundaries here:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1ObFwqV2vtigkclpjea3sUHNhUuw

sondagefaux

Little bit of London postal districts history:

http://londonist.com/2015/08/why-is-there-no-ne-or-s-london-postcode-district

sondagefaux

City Post offering discounts for business users who use Eircodes:

Businesses will be offered postal discounts to encourage them to make greater use of Eircode, the struggling address coding system introduced in 2015 at a projected cost to the state of €38m.

CityPost, a private distribution company that entered the postal market in January, is planning the discounts as part of a package of incentives aimed at winning business from heavy users of the postal system. “We would be a fan of Eircode,” said Ian Glass, chief executive of CityPost.

“We’re going to bring out a postal tariff that has an extra discount if business customers put the Eircode on at least 90% of their mail. Eircode is here and it should be used. We are going to encourage bulk mailers to get their databases Eircoded because there will be an extra discount. There are services that can Eircode your databases for you. It doesn’t have to be a hugely cumbersome exercise.”

An Post has no plans to offer Eircode discounts, claiming it can sort post efficiently without relying on the seven-character national address code. Many operators in the freight and distribution industry have criticised Eircode as unsuitable.

http://www.citypost.ie/news/citypost-to-deliver-eircode-discounts.php

Struggling?

@autoaddress 4 hours ago

282,792 #Eircode API calls so far today

BonnieSituation

How is it struggling?

[Deleted User]

BonnieSituation wrote: »

How is it struggling?

I think it's the detractors who are struggling, not eircodes!

BlinkingLights

I'd an item delivered today with just my name and eircode.
It happened due to an error in Germany.

ukoda

BlinkingLights wrote: »

I'd an item delivered today with just my name and eircode.
It happened due to an error in Germany.

A similar thing happened to me with a letter from Germany, they made a mess of the address structure meaning they took my house number and added it to my street address but dropped the estate name, so the address made no sense / didn't exist, luckily the eircode was on the letter and someone (assuming An Post) had handwritten the estate name on the envelope. Sender didn't put a return address on the envelope so without eircode I would never have gotten the letter or even known about it

BonnieSituation

ukoda wrote: »

A similar thing happened to me with a letter from Germany, they made a mess of the address structure meaning they took my house number and added it to my street address but dropped the estate name, so the address made no sense / didn't exist, luckily the eircode was on the letter and someone (assuming An Post) had handwritten the estate name on the envelope. Sender didn't put a return address on the envelope so without eircode I would never have gotten the letter or even known about it

To say never would be pushing it. An Post are notorious for getting madly addressed letters to their destination eventually.

plodder

I live in a rural location, at an address that isn't easy to find without additional information. The other night I got a delivery from a courier who told me he doesn't use Eircode. Previously, other couriers have used it successfully though as I have added it to my online address at most sites. I suspect most urban addressees are still not using it, as there isn't much to be gained from it.

chewed

Deedsie wrote: »

What was the name of the courier company?

We should be asking couriers why they don't use Eircode?

plodder

Deedsie wrote: »

What was the name of the courier company?

I don't know. His van was out on the road, and I didn't ask. He used what looked like a blackberry for getting a signature. So, maybe he doesn't want to be carrying two devices around, assuming that the existing device can't make use of it. But, he was quite dismissive of it, which I suppose suggests that "you know who"s twitter campaign is having some effect.

BonnieSituation

So probably some Fastway chap so.

plodder

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/under-10-of-shipping-companies-use-eircode-446418.html

Irish Examiner today. Sounds like it's struggling to me.

Sam Russell

plodder wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/under-10-of-shipping-companies-use-eircode-446418.html

Irish Examiner today. Sounds like it's struggling to me.

I fail to understand how Eircode could be struggling. It does not depend for its existence for people to use it. Therefore it cannot struggle.

Capita might struggle if it is losing money, but Eircode exists and cannot struggle.

It is more like the Millennium Spire than the Millennium Clock.

sondagefaux

plodder wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/under-10-of-shipping-companies-use-eircode-446418.html

Irish Examiner today. Sounds like it's struggling to me.

Is it losing money or something?

It's not a profit-making enterprise, it's a piece of public infrastructure.

KPMG along with Services advisor CBRE and the Freight Transport Association of Ireland have published the second annual Ireland Logistics & Supply Chain Confidence Index which found 92% of companies that replied to their survey say “they have not adapted their business processes in order to exploit Eircode”.

The same survey last year found 96% of companies did not adapt their business to use Eircode.

How many companies were sent the survey? It seems only 52 replies were sent back:

A total of 52 companies responded to the survey, including businesses such as Aer Lingus Cargo, DHL, and the Musgrave group. Logistics firms accounted for 27 of respondents, while shipping companies made up the rest of those surveyed.

Without knowing how many companies were asked to take part in the survey, it's impossible to know if 52 responses is even close to a representative sample or not, especially since we don't even know who the survey was directed at. Was it all shipping and logistics companies registered in Ireland or only a sample of those companies? If just a sample, what were the criteria used to select the sample? What percentage of the selected sample do the responses represent?

Even with the completely inadequate information presented in the report, we can see that 8% of the companies that replied have adapted their business processes to use Eircodes, compared to only 4% last year.

Assuming the increase continues at the same rate, in six years time approximately one in three of these companies will have adapted their processes to use Eircodes, with about 50% set to use them within 10 years.

A reasonably quick adoption time frame and very good market penetration for a service that's got pretty much no marketing budget at all.

Extracts from the 2016 report:

When asked if the introduction of the Eircode postcode system has been a positive development for the Irish market from their perspective, two thirds of respondents said it has been positive. Perhaps not surprisingly, shippers are more enthusiastic about the benefits that the adoption of
Eircode has been with 73% of shipping respondents describing its development as positive. Meanwhile, only 55% of logistics companies say that the development of Eircode is positive.

...

When asked if they believed that their firm would enjoy a net gain from the introduction of the Eircode postcode system, surprisingly 83% of respondents said no. It is stark that 89% of respondents in the logistics sector say that their businesses are unlikely to enjoy a net gain from the introduction of Eircode, while 77% of respondents in the shipping sector are also of this
view.

https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2016/06/ie-cbre-ireland-logistics-sector-outlook.pdf

sondagefaux

Eircodes now on TomTom:

@Dept_CCAE
#Eircodes now on @TomTom. The #Eircode will help customers of @TomTom improve their geocoding, routing, or other location services

Sam Russell

Any sign of Garmin?

plodder

sondagefaux wrote: »

Is it losing money or something?

If 38 million is being spent on it, it'd be nice to know people are using it.

How many companies were sent the survey? It seems only 52 replies were sent back:

Take up your questions with KPMG and then report back.