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CBD Oil for dog epilepsy

the heathen

Not sure if there's another thread on this issue - I did a wee search for CBD in the A&P forum and couldn't find anything so thought I'd introduce it as a topic.

My Irish Setter has been having seizures for 18 months or more and is on a frequency of one fit every 7/8 days with lots of smaller petit mal fits in between.

She's been on Pexion for maybe 6 months now and tbh I'm not sure how effective it is really - this may be because of the form of epilepsy that my dog has. My vet believes that it's not the regular idiopathic type as she developed it quite late (8/9 years) - idiopathic epilepsy normally rears it's head by the fifth year. My vet suspects it may have developed due to a head trauma or a stroke or a brain bleed of some kind.

Recently I've come to the conclusion that the Pexion appears to be having little effect - I've been using it alongside some phenobarbitol in an attempt to lessen the amount of pheno I have to give her. This doesn't mean it wont work for your dog - they're all different obviously.

What I have found some success with - and it's given me some confidence to ease back on the Pexion and hopefully wean her off it altogether - is CBD oil.

She's been on it for just over two weeks now and while it's too early to judge just how much effect it's having on weekly bigger fit I can say with some certainty that it's had a sizable impact on the small petit mal seizures to the extent that I can only think of one day in the last week to ten days when she had any. Prior to the CBD she'd have them most days - you could see her face twitch and she'd sometimes lose her legs momentarily.

Even if the CBD only clears these up I'd consider it to have been a success as although they were quite small they still caused her some discomfort and made her quite hungry and agitated for a while after. I really do think that she seems a lot happier now - I hope it continues and that she continues to improve.

I'll post back in here in another couple of weeks when I get more of a gauge on the impact it's having on the bigger fits - but I'm hopeful that i'll see an improvement.

My vet has also told me of another client of his who's had some success with a spoon of cold-pressed coconut oil every day so I've added that to her food too - has to be worth a go too!

Incidentally, re. pexion - a box of 100 x 400mg tablets is costing me €111 with my vet but I've recently discovered that they can be bought online here - https://www.petdrugsonline.co.uk/search?searchtext=pexion - you'll need a prescription from your vet but they're almost half price on there at €66 inc delivery.

Hope that all makes sense and that something in there is of use to someone. Maybe someone else has some experience of CBD Oil and dog epilepsy?

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muddypaws

What is CBD oil?

Steve012

Yes it should work, there is a chart about weight ratios for CBD oil for pets on the net somewhere.

Best of luck.

Jayop

muddypaws wrote: »

What is CBD oil?

Oil derived from extracts from a cannabis plant.

Steve012

Your nearly on 10,000 Jayo !!

To the op CBD oil doesnt have any high effects like THC oil, (which is used for cancer).

DBB

My old, dear departed dog developed epilepsy late in life too op... later than your dog, as she was 12-13 when she developed it, and like yourself, we (vet and I) felt it was perhaps a brain tumour (though the dog lacked any other symptoms of a neurological problem). Like your dog, she had lots of tiny petit mal seizures between major seizures, which never really settled into a temporal pattern... she might have 2 one week, then none for 3-5 weeks. But the petit mal seizures were multiple times daily.
She was put on Pexion. It made her somewhat incontinent, and as it didn't seem to be having much of an effect on her seizures, I took her the hell off it. But then I realised that although the Pexion hadn't affected the frequency of seizures, it almost certainly controlled the clustering that started to happen when I took her off the stuff.
Sooo... I put her back on it, at as low a dose as I could... and just lived with the incontinence which only happened in deep sleep anyway. I felt it tended to make her a little bit zoned out too.
Wish I'd known about the CBD oil to give it a go

mistybluehills

the heathen wrote: »

Not sure if there's another thread on this issue - I did a wee search for CBD in the A&P forum and couldn't find anything so thought I'd introduce it as a topic.

My Irish Setter has been having seizures for 18 months or more and is on a frequency of one fit every 7/8 days with lots of smaller petit mal fits in between.

She's been on Pexion for maybe 6 months now and tbh I'm not sure how effective it is really - this may be because of the form of epilepsy that my dog has. My vet believes that it's not the regular idiopathic type as she developed it quite late (8/9 years) - idiopathic epilepsy normally rears it's head by the fifth year. My vet suspects it may have developed due to a head trauma or a stroke or a brain bleed of some kind.

Recently I've come to the conclusion that the Pexion appears to be having little effect - I've been using it alongside some phenobarbitol in an attempt to lessen the amount of pheno I have to give her. This doesn't mean it wont work for your dog - they're all different obviously.

What I have found some success with - and it's given me some confidence to ease back on the Pexion and hopefully wean her off it altogether - is CBD oil.

She's been on it for just over two weeks now and while it's too early to judge just how much effect it's having on weekly bigger fit I can say with some certainty that it's had a sizable impact on the small petit mal seizures to the extent that I can only think of one day in the last week to ten days when she had any. Prior to the CBD she'd have them most days - you could see her face twitch and she'd sometimes lose her legs momentarily.

Even if the CBD only clears these up I'd consider it to have been a success as although they were quite small they still caused her some discomfort and made her quite hungry and agitated for a while after. I really do think that she seems a lot happier now - I hope it continues and that she continues to improve.

I'll post back in here in another couple of weeks when I get more of a gauge on the impact it's having on the bigger fits - but I'm hopeful that i'll see an improvement.

My vet has also told me of another client of his who's had some success with a spoon of cold-pressed coconut oil every day so I've added that to her food too - has to be worth a go too!

Incidentally, re. pexion - a box of 100 x 400mg tablets is costing me €111 with my vet but I've recently discovered that they can be bought online here - https://www.petdrugsonline.co.uk/search?searchtext=pexion - you'll need a prescription from your vet but they're almost half price on there at €66 inc delivery.

Hope that all makes sense and that something in there is of use to someone. Maybe someone else has some experience of CBD Oil and dog epilepsy?

Sad to hear your dog is unwell. Epilepsy is a particularly unpleasant condition, it's hard to watch your friend having these seizures.
But just a couple of thoughts,
Is this stuff legal???
And are there a significant number of (reputable) studies that show that it is an effective treatment?

It's tempting to look for a magic bullet type solution when your dog is ill. I suspect if such a treatment exist am your vet would be using it.
Chin up and hope all goes well

Jayop

Pretty certain it's illegal in Ireland to buy or sell it, can be got online.

There's studies for it on seizures in humans to show its effectiveness and but other competing ones to say it's not. I'm very cynical about the ones refuting it's effectiveness as I've seen first hand it works.

I've never seen, nor looked for studies in dogs.

loveisdivine

Not sure if you can get CBD oil here but I bought Cannapet from the US and it was sent here fine. It's just a supplement not the actual illegal drug so it's fine.

We used it for something entirely different on our cat but it's mainly for dogs anyway I think.

If you search for it theres 2-3 companies in the US making it for pets. It come's in a powder tablet form.

the heathen

It's legal here alright according to any info I can find. It's not the naughty variety of cannabis - it contains no (or only a tiny trace) of the psychoactive element THC.

I get it from www.hempture.ie - they're based in Wicklow and produce it under laboratory conditions - here's their 'about us' section - http://hempture.ie/about/

Certainly seems to be above board to me.

As far as research is concerned - research has been limited but that's largely because cannabis has largely been prohibited as an option to the medical world. It's well known that attitudes to that are changing. In any case CBD Oil comes from hemp rather than marijuana which is no longer illegal in most (many) territories. The therapeutic effects of cannaboids are well known anecdotally - there's loads of info out there on it.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/cannabis-dog-can-help/
http://www.kerryblues.info/health-wellness/cannabis-and-dogs
Dosage info here - http://vizslacentral.co.uk/health/cbd-oil/

It's early days as far as my dog concerned - I'm certainly not expecting a magic bullet as someone suggested above, but I'm absolutely open to trying anything that will help ease the burden of these horrible fits on my dog and I can definitely say that it's reduced the petit mal fits already. I've my fingers crossed that it might lessen the number of bigger seizures but a judgement on that will take time.

the heathen

loveisdivine wrote: »

Not sure if you can get CBD oil here but I bought Cannapet from the US and it was sent here fine. It's just a supplement not the actual illegal drug so it's fine.

We used it for something entirely different on our cat but it's mainly for dogs anyway I think.

If you search for it theres 2-3 companies in the US making it for pets. It come's in a powder tablet form.

I was looking at the Cannapet products alright - were they beneficial?

I went with straight CBD Oil in the end as I thought it would be more effective to give her the purest form I could.

kathleen37

This is really handy to read. I think I mentioned previously, we have a 20 year old feral that has always lived in the shed down the garden, who has now come into the house. (She won't go out at all anymore, so I guess she likes it...) She's seizing aprox every two weeks, with no petite mals in between. Lasts less that 2 mins, she always pees herself and is always ravenously hungry afterwards. I'm always scared she'll choke but she really does come round full after a few mins.

Vet said that she could have always been having them and we just never knew, or like the others here, could be due to head injury or tumour. She said she wouldn't recommend giving her anything as she had been speaking with their phenobarbitol rep, and they were saying there were new studies saying effectiveness may not be as good as previously thought (pretty rubbish rep, if you ask me...) so "at her age" she said that unless its gets worse, she would recommend not medicating her.

I've been aware of the successful use of CBD oil in the treatment of epilepsy in children for some time (here's a link to an Irish case)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38183068

I think I'm defo going to give this a go and hopefully may be an improvement for her (because for crying out loud, the vets have been USELESS re her chronic otitis. Nothing has worked at all and they won't do the op as it's both ears, "due to her age"...)

the heathen

kathleen37 wrote: »

This is really handy to read. I think I mentioned previously, we have a 20 year old feral that has always lived in the shed down the garden, who has now come into the house. (She won't go out at all anymore, so I guess she likes it...) She's seizing aprox every two weeks, with no petite mals in between. Lasts less that 2 mins, she always pees herself and is always ravenously hungry afterwards. I'm always scared she'll choke but she really does come round full after a few mins.

Vet said that she could have always been having them and we just never knew, or like the others here, could be due to head injury or tumour. She said she wouldn't recommend giving her anything as she had been speaking with their phenobarbitol rep, and they were saying there were new studies saying effectiveness may not be as good as previously thought (pretty rubbish rep, if you ask me...) so "at her age" she said that unless its gets worse, she would recommend not medicating her.

I've been aware of the successful use of CBD oil in the treatment of epilepsy in children for some time (here's a link to an Irish case)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38183068

I think I'm defo going to give this a go and hopefully may be an improvement for her (because for crying out loud, the vets have been USELESS re her chronic otitis. Nothing has worked at all and they won't do the op as it's both ears, "due to her age"...)

Good luck with it Kathleen! What sort of dog do you have? Mine's a setter - it's a bigger dog so I give her 6 drops twice a day. The CBD is pricey - I think 10 ml is costing me circa 35 euro. I prob get through 2ml every 6 days.

Oh, do add the cold-pressed coconut oil too - €3.99 in Aldi - (not too much - just a spoon a day - more might give your dog the runs!) - I got that tip from my vet who's seen someone have some success with it so it's worth a try too.

kathleen37

So sorry, Heathen - it's a cat with the seizures I have. Your link said one drop a day for cats. I don't think I'd have any luck with the coconut oil with her...

the heathen

kathleen37 wrote: »

So sorry, Heathen - it's a cat with the seizures I have. Your link said one drop a day for cats. I don't think I'd have any luck with the coconut oil with her...

Oh I see! :-)

Zapperzy

That's really interesting. I knew about its effectiveness in humans but never thought of the veterinary side.

Steve012

Zapperzy wrote: »

That's really interesting. I knew about its effectiveness in humans but never thought of the veterinary side.

Has been helping a lot of pets for a few years now

CBD oil is totally legal here, it can be bought at or online by " The hemp company" based in Capel st.

Charlotte's web seems to be the most consistent brand of the oil, so I'm told. Available at the hemp company Dublin.

Jayop

I was reading an article from last year where it said that even in USA states where cannabis is legal for humans a vet could lose their license for even suggesting it for a pet as the laws there haven't been changed.

I wouldn't let that change my view to try it if nothing else worked but it probably explains the lack of studies into its use.

kathleen37

Charlottes Web is the brand that the little girl in the article is using. It's really, really expensive though so I'm guessing it's more "potent"??

I really hope your girl keeps really improving, heathen. I'm going to get a bottle of the stuff you get, but don't get paid till the end of the month. I hope you keep updating us on how your girl is getting on. I'll come back once my girl has been having it for a few weeks.

Thanks again

the heathen

Just in case anyone's interested I thought I'd give an update on how my dog is doing on CBD. She's just crossed the three week mark on the oil and I've seen her have petit mal fits maybe twice or three times in the three weeks - they had been pretty much daily and would hang around for hours - now, on the very rare occasions that they present themselves they last a few seconds and are gone.

More notably she's only had one of the bigger major fits and that was on January 25th - 2 weeks ago.

Prior to the oil her fits were like clockwork - every week and always in the morning. She should've had three fits in the time she's been on the CBD but has only had one and she's really settled a lot now that she doesn't have the aggravation and stress of the regular petit mal fits.

As far as side effects or anything like that goes I've not noticed much except for perhaps she's sleeping more but I'm not that unhappy about that as she had a knee operation last year and at ten years of age the vet has recommended that I start curbing her exercise to protect the knee etc.

Hope that's of interest to someone. Again, I'm not gonna read too much into this yet - I know how epilepsy can 'break through' a treatment - but it's definitely encouraging.

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kathleen37

That really does sound encouraging! I'm glad she's doing well.

Roll on payday...

the heathen

kathleen37 wrote: »

That really does sound encouraging! I'm glad she's doing well.

Roll on payday...

Thanks Kathleen - just a little recommendation - if you're buying the CBD from Hempture.ie it's prob worth going for the 10ml bottle to give it a proper go. I bought the 2ml bottle to start with but it was frustrating as it'd run out after 6 days which really wasn't long to give it a real go and I was having to re-order too often. The 10ml won't save you much in money terms but it'll save you a bit of annoyance!

(all that being said, yours is for a cat so you're probably going to be using a lot less than the 12 drops a day that I've been using!)

kathleen37

the heathen wrote: »

Thanks Kathleen - just a little recommendation - if you're buying the CBD from Hempture.ie it's prob worth going for the 10ml bottle to give it a proper go. I bought the 2ml bottle to start with but it was frustrating as it'd run out after 6 days which really wasn't long to give it a real go and I was having to re-order too often. The 10ml won't save you much in money terms but it'll save you a bit of annoyance!

(all that being said, yours is for a cat so you're probably going to be using a lot less than the 12 drops a day that I've been using!)

Thanks. I'm going to do like you and go with the 10ml bottle. I figure to give it a good while to see if there is any improvement.

Would be wonderful if there is, but at €30 odd euro, and as we know there are no side effects, then it's well worth giving it a go.

I really hope your girl keeps improving. The seizures are really horrible so anything that helps is well worth it.

the heathen

kathleen37 wrote: »

Thanks. I'm going to do like you and go with the 10ml bottle. I figure to give it a good while to see if there is any improvement.

Would be wonderful if there is, but at €30 odd euro, and as we know there are no side effects, then it's well worth giving it a go.

I really hope your girl keeps improving. The seizures are really horrible so anything that helps is well worth it.

Hey Kathleen,

Don't know if you've bought this stuff yet but I note that Holland and Barrett in the UK are doing a Buy One Get One Half Price offer at the moment on CBD Oil - http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/jacob-hooy-cbd-oil-60008899

They deliver to Ireland too.

kathleen37

THanks for that, heathen.

How is your girl getting on? I hope she's ok and still improving.

the heathen

Hi Kathleen,

Still very happy with the response to the CBD. She's had 1 seizure in the last 25 days - ordinarily she'd have had at least 3 in that time. The petit mal seizures are dramatically reduced too - all very positive so far touch wood.

Have you started the CBD yet?

Stephenc66

kathleen37 wrote: »

Thanks. I'm going to do like you and go with the 10ml bottle. I figure to give it a good while to see if there is any improvement.

Would be wonderful if there is, but at €30 odd euro, and as we know there are no side effects, then it's well worth giving it a go.

I really hope your girl keeps improving. The seizures are really horrible so anything that helps is well worth it.

the heathen wrote: »

Hey Kathleen,

Don't know if you've bought this stuff yet but I note that Holland and Barrett in the UK are doing a Buy One Get One Half Price offer at the moment on CBD Oil - http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/jacob-hooy-cbd-oil-60008899

They deliver to Ireland too.

It would be worth while comparing the percentage content of CBD per volume of oil before changing supplier you may not be comparing like with like even though the bottles are the same size.

Especially if you are achieving good results with the brand you are using.

the heathen

Stephenc66 wrote:

It would be worth while comparing the percentage content of CBD per volume of oil before changing supplier you may not be comparing like with like even though the bottles are the same size.

Stephenc66 wrote:

Especially if you are achieving good results with the brand you are using.

Good point Stephen. I did that. The original one I was using has 300mg in the 10ml bottle whereas the Holland and Barrett one has 250mg.

I decided it was worth a try though as the H&B Jacob Hooy one is very well reviewed online and the current offer makes it considerably cheaper and a saving is very welcome as the oil is so very expensive. I was thinking of dropping the amount of CBD I was giving her anyway and the change of brand represents a 16% drop which isn't so bad.

The slightly smaller percentage shouldn't be too bad for Kathleen in any case as she has a cat which I expect will require less CBD.

mymo

Tip for the coconut oil, fry a couple of chunks of chicken or bit of mince in it and pour any remaining oil over it when done, cats go mad for it then.
One of my dogs and one of my cats love it and will eat it from a spoon, the others I give it as above our melted over their food.

Hope it goes well for both the dog and cat, there really need to be more studies done, around pets, I've seen the effects on someone with Parkinson's and it is amazing.

the heathen

Thanks Mymo,

Nice tip. I'm up to 4 weeks and only one fit now in that time. She should've had four in that time. Fingers crossed it continues like this.

kathleen37

Just bumping this with an update on our cat.

Seizures have almost stopped. I'm gobsmacked to be honest.

I hope the heathen's girl is also improving.

As an aside, www.hempture.ie are now doing a product specifically for pets - it's over a hundred euro I think. I haven't had time to have a good read yet, so I don't know why it is any different, and more expensive (I think) than the regular stuff?