Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

Mary63 wrote: »

oh lord bubblypop, are you permanently this obtuse, I am really beginning to understand how Trump was voted in, its like talking to a brick wall.

Can you not understand how isolated you feel when everyone around you is speaking in a language you don't understand.I had this recently in a queue in Bray of all places and I couldn't wait to leave.I couldn't imagine what it would be like to face into work everyday and have no one address a single word in a language you could understand.If you can't understand that then good luck to you.End of.

That's tough Mary, you didn't understand them, so what? If you felt uncomfortable then that's your problem.
I was in college with Irish speakers who spoke to each other in Irish, I didn't understand.
Did I get paranoid? Or did I even care? No!
I've been in many many different countries where I didn't understand the language, so what?

Mary63 wrote: »

Muslim women are breeding non stop.

These are people you are talking about. People. Not animals.
That's a disgusting way to speak about people

Mary63

oh lord bubblypop, are you permanently this obtuse, I am really beginning to understand how Trump was voted in, its like talking to a brick wall.

Can you not understand how isolated you feel when everyone around you is speaking in a language you don't understand.I had this recently in a queue in Bray of all places and I couldn't wait to leave.I couldn't imagine what it would be like to face into work everyday and have no one address a single word in a language you could understand.If you can't understand that then good luck to you.End of.

I know who will plant the bombs in Dublin on behalf of Isis, I only have to look at the history of the people who planted bombs in Berlin, Brussels, Paris and the UK.Why on earth anyone thinks that won't happen here is beyond me, its only a matter of time and the people who are willing to do it are probably in here already.

I see the airport officials who smuggled people in are in Court today, I hope the book is thrown at them, they are endangering us for the sake of bagfuls of money, shame on them.

Mary63 wrote: »

the Poles aren't going to molest Irish young women in tshirts and nor are they going to plant bombs in O Connell street

Gee Mary if you actually know this then you may have the answer to the crime problem in Ireland.
If you can predict who will and will not commit crime in future then you are wasted on an internet forum!

bubblypop wrote: »

Really?
You said they spoke to each other in polish. Where did they give the poor Irish person a hard time?

If four Gaeilgoirí started speaking solely to each other in Irish when there was a German in the room who couldn't speak it, would you say they're doing no harm or that they're being rude?

Mary63 wrote: »

The Poles joined together in the workplace to give a colleague a hard time

Really?
You said they spoke to each other in polish. Where did they give the poor Irish person a hard time?

Mary63

Under the Dublin convention the country the illegal immigrants lands have to take them.

Angela Merkel did a solo run on this and decided she was breaking this convention, she did this because Germany needs young people and Angela thought Germany would get the best of the newcomers.It all turned sour when one of the teens allowed in to be fostered attacked train passengers with an axe.Then came the Cologne Sex attacks and the Berlin truck driver and well you know the rest.Angela then decided that she didn't want the Syrians after all and she bribed the Turks to take them all by hinting that EU membership might come their way if they agreed.

I didn't say no to Poles, the Poles aren't going to molest Irish young women in tshirts and nor are they going to plant bombs in O Connell street to further the cost of mad men in ISIS.The real danger though of ISIS is not the immigrants coming in, its from the Muslims who were born in the West and grew up with all the advantages and yet hate their country of birth so much they are prepared to drive refrigerated trucks into crowds of people including babies in buggies.The very worrying thing is even though we know Muslims have lived in France etc for maybe almost thirty years and it was so easy to radicalise them, why does anyone actually believe the new arrivals aren't going to be radicalised too even if we give them free houses, access to health care, education and all the other benefits of modern European countries.Its all so depressingly predictable and we never learn, we just keep on appeasing these people and their demands get more and more extreme, i.e. if someone doesn't stop drawing cartoons they will be shot to death in their workplace.

Chips Lovell

So no Poles because they drink too much?

And no Muslims because they don't drink enough?

alastair wrote: »

That's not actually the relevant part of the legislation, but thanks for trying.

You said they are given protection under international law, and I've just shown you that that protection does not encompass all countries, merely the first country they arrive directly in.

alastair wrote: »

There's no legal obligation whatsoever under the 1951 convention for asylum seekers to make their claim in the first country they go to.
That's the reason why every successful asylum seeker to Ireland, has attained asylum status.

No, but there is under the Dublin Protocols. I said that they are here illegally. You said that they're protected by international law, and I've provided evidence to the contrary.

Now, find proof that they are protected under law to illegally squat in a country, like you were asked to do so. Or are you just going to obfuscate, wait for me to get bored, and then peddle your lie again?

Mary63

I don't have a problem with Poles coming in Jmayo but it is true that they like the Irish abuse alcohol and this of course means their health care costs if born by the HSE will be very high, this is a fact, its not racism to state this.

As I said Timberrr to back up his statement that The Irish are among the most racist in the world used his observations on the building site to come to this conclusion.The Poles joined together in the workplace to give a colleague a hard time, they herded together just like the workers on the building site did.This is my point, the Irish are no more racist than anyone else, any Irish person working on a building site in Poland is probably going to be uncomfortable unless there are a lot of other Irish people there too.

People do tend to stick to their own nationality, race or whatever you call it and that is people from within European countries too.The Poles, the French, the Swiss, the Germans come here to work, generally don't intend to stay for the long term and they send money home to their families.They don't impose their religious beliefs on us or demand segregated schooling or dress codes for the women.

There isn't a chance in hel that any large influx of Muslims is going to lead to any benefits for this country.They won't integrate socially because they don't drink and every social occasion int his country is alcohol fuelled.They want their women to cover up so as soon as the girls hit puberty their freedom to go where they please is taken away.The boys are taught that any woman who doesn't cover up is worthless so for both boys and girls their community becomes very closed and eventually it becomes a ghetto.This has happened everywhere in Europe where the Muslims have gone in great numbers and its one of the reasons that the British people voted for Brexit.I am very sorry that we are losing the UK from the European Union but do understand why the ordinary British citizen has said enough.Those who bleat on about wanting open borders so everyone can come in don't live in disadvantaged areas and they spend their lives with the not in my backyard stuff.Its all very well to let every Hussain Abdul etc in when you can pay for private schools and private health care and you aren't looking for maternity care in an area where Muslim women are breeding non stop.

jmayo

alastair wrote: »

The gender of the minors is really not of any importance to me. Sorry about that. I'm also rather bemused by how you managed to determine how I form my views on refugees, but let's just say that you're not winning any prizes for special insights there.

Of course their gender isn't important to you.
Shure aren't they all poor cratures from some warzone and haven't they had a terrible time in Calais.
Maybe you should actually have a chat with some truckers that experienced these poor minors, or better see how the citizens of Calais will miss them.

And the only prize you will be winning is one for gullibility.

alastair wrote: »

You seem a little confused about the responsibilities and obligations involved in asylum law. It's not 'bleeding heart buffooons' that enforce the obligation to review asylum applications - it's the application of the law. It's not an option to return refugees to Libya - it's once again a matter of adhereing to the law. So in a choice of letting people drown, or bringing them to Italy, what's your call? Nobody is covering up any crimes btw.

Ever hear the law is an ass ?

AFAIK we never signed up to take non EU migrants sitting in makeshift camps in other European states.

Personally I rather like the way Hungary have been looking at this issue.

alastair wrote: »

17 year olds are minors. Nothing strange there. There's probably more instances of rape in Ireland than Sweden. It's a safer country than most in Europe. And plenty of young unaccompanied men have integrated well in Europe.

Ah FFS.

As per the mods request on these type of threads please give us some stats to back up your assertion that Ireland has more instances of rape than Sweden.

alastair wrote: »

Again - how exactly are you to know that the 20 (yet to be selected) are not Yazidi, Christians, atheists, or homosexuals?

You're comparing apples and oranges. Swedish sexual assault stats will always come out on top of other European county, as long as they employ a different way of logging reported crimes. Every specific instance of sexual assault in an ongoing abusive relationship is counted as a single crime in Sweden - it counts as a single grouped crime elsewhere. And the actual instance of reported rapes has actually fallen slightly in Sweden since they changed over to their new classification system. It's down on 2005 figures - despite the large influx of refugees there in the last ten years. That doesn't really play into the whole scaremongering narrative though, does it?

Nah shure it's all grand in Sweden.

Perhaps you might tell that to the disabled lady gang raped by some of these refugees and then effectively raped by the law afterwards because she didn't put up enough of a fight.

What were you saying again earlier about laws and legal obligations ?

AnGaelach wrote: »

Oh, you know, the ghettoisation, failure of integration, and occasional terrorist attack...

I'm aware you're not good with the ole legal research so I'll quote the relevant part

This means that those leaving Syria can claim protection for being illegally in the first country they go to, not any and every country under the sun.

These "refugees" stopped having legal protection once they left Greece and Turkey.

That's not actually the relevant part of the legislation, but thanks for trying. There's no legal obligation whatsoever under the 1951 convention for asylum seekers to make their claim in the first country they go to. That's the reason why every successful asylum seeker to Ireland, has attained asylum status.

Walter H Price wrote: »

Barely and are we only taking ones with verified age cards ? why not look to help the real vulnerable , young children either alone or with unaccompanied women ? the Yazidi , Christians , atheists , homosexuals the ones fleeing the greatest threat.

Again - how exactly are you to know that the 20 (yet to be selected) are not Yazidi, Christians, atheists, or homosexuals?

Walter H Price wrote: »

To your second point it very much used to be but cultural enrichment sorted that out

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-and-denmark-have-highest-number-of-sexual-assaults-in-europe-a6800901.html

You're comparing apples and oranges. Swedish sexual assault stats will always come out on top of other European county, as long as they employ a different way of logging reported crimes. Every specific instance of sexual assault in an ongoing abusive relationship is counted as a single crime in Sweden - it counts as a single grouped crime elsewhere. And the actual instance of reported rapes has actually fallen slightly in Sweden since they changed over to their new classification system. It's down on 2005 figures - despite the large influx of refugees there in the last ten years. That doesn't really play into the whole scaremongering narrative though, does it?

Walter H Price

alastair wrote: »

17 year olds are minors. Nothing strange there. There's probably more instances of rape in Ireland than Sweden. It's a safer country than most in Europe. And plenty of young unaccompanied men have integrated well in Europe.

Barely and are we only taking ones with verified age cards ? why not look to help the real vulnerable , young children either alone or with unaccompanied women ? the Yazidi , Christians , atheists , homosexuals the ones fleeing the greatest threat.

To your second point it very much used to be but cultural enrichment sorted that out

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-and-denmark-have-highest-number-of-sexual-assaults-in-europe-a6800901.html

alastair wrote: »

What exactly do you believe has happened in every other western nation? It's all rather vague scaremongering tbh.

Oh, you know, the ghettoisation, failure of integration, and occasional terrorist attack...

alastair wrote: »

The applicable law? UN Refugee Convention (1951), enacted into national law many years ago.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1996/act/17/schedule/3/enacted/en/html

I'm aware you're not good with the ole legal research so I'll quote the relevant part

1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

[...]

1. The Contracting States shall not expel a refugee lawfully in their territory save on grounds of national security or public order.

This means that those leaving Syria can claim protection for being illegally in the first country they go to, not any and every country under the sun.

These "refugees" stopped having legal protection once they left Greece and Turkey.

Walter H Price wrote: »

At 17 (if that's even all they are) there far from kids , bad decision on the part of the government I'm sure there of plenty of women and actual children we could have taken if we have to take some. Thees young unaccompanied men have not integrated well anywhere in Europe look at Sweden , rape capital of Europe now.

But hey ho cant really argue with cultural enrichment , if you do your a racist.

17 year olds are minors. Nothing strange there. There's probably more instances of rape in Ireland than Sweden. It's a safer country than most in Europe. And plenty of young unaccompanied men have integrated well in Europe.

Walter H Price

At 17 (if that's even all they are) there far from kids , bad decision on the part of the government I'm sure there of plenty of women and actual children we could have taken if we have to take some. Thees young unaccompanied men have not integrated well anywhere in Europe look at Sweden , rape capital of Europe now.

But hey ho cant really argue with cultural enrichment , if you do your a racist.

Timberrrrrrrr

b_mac2 wrote: »

There you go.

My call out still stands, you're a spoof.

Where did I say xxx is a racist?

Call what you like kiddo you don't know me from Adam.

AnGaelach wrote: »

Under what law? Unless it has been given domestic effect in legislation, it has no power in the Courts here - hence why there is a lag of many years between when Ireland signs a treaty and when it actually enters into force. But you already knew that, right?

Yeah, because there's been a significant number of them at all in the first place. I guess Ireland is going to be the special case and what has happened in every other Western country surely won't happen here :rolleyes:

Edit:

Is there a reason why you linked some website? Any Tom, Dick and Harry can make a video and a website.

Any reason? Well it's actual Syrians in Ireland articulating for themselves. Aside from that, nope.

What exactly do you believe has happened in every other western nation? It's all rather vague scaremongering tbh.

The applicable law? UN Refugee Convention (1951), enacted into national law many years ago.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1996/act/17/schedule/3/enacted/en/html

alastair wrote: »

You've some evidence in relation to these 20 people that haven't been selected yet? That's some trick. The vast majority of refugee and asylum seekers in this, and every other European state, entered illegally - but the right of illegal entry for the purposes of seeking asylum is protected under international law. So if you've got a problem with the legality in this case, you're going to have to concede that you've got a problem with pretty much all refugees and asylum seekers.

Under what law? Unless it has been given domestic effect in legislation, it has no power in the Courts here - hence why there is a lag of many years between when Ireland signs a treaty and when it actually enters into force. But you already knew that, right?

alastair wrote: »

Not buying your broad brushstroke 'cultural incompatibility' either. The Syrian community in Ireland has been no bother historically.

Yeah, because there's been a significant number of them at all in the first place. I guess Ireland is going to be the special case and what has happened in every other Western country surely won't happen here :rolleyes:

Edit:

Is there a reason why you linked some website? Any Tom, Dick and Harry can make a video and a website.

AnGaelach wrote: »

Because most of the "child" migrants are adults, they're in Europe illegally, and their culture has a history of incompatibility with us.

So, what does matter to you? Their crocodile tears?

You've some evidence in relation to these 20 people that haven't been selected yet? That's some trick. The vast majority of refugee and asylum seekers in this, and every other European state, entered illegally - but the right of illegal entry for the purposes of seeking asylum is protected under international law. So if you've got a problem with the legality in this case, you're going to have to concede that you've got a problem with pretty much all refugees and asylum seekers. Not buying your broad brushstroke 'cultural incompatibility' either. The Syrian community in Ireland has been no bother historically. http://swansongfilms.ie/syrian-voices-ireland/

Your knee jerk assumptions are something of a bother to me. Does that count?

alastair wrote: »

What leads you to believe that? Other than projection?

Because most of the "child" migrants are adults, they're in Europe illegally, and their culture has a history of incompatibility with us, and you seem to have no issue with those factors.

So, what does matter to you? Their crocodile tears?

AnGaelach wrote: »

Their age, legitimacy and culture doesn't seem to be either.

What leads you to believe that? Other than projection?

AnGaelach wrote: »

Because the bleeding heart buffoons have been intentionally rewarding deceit and illegality since this crisis started. Encouraging hundreds of thousands of make a dangerous trip by refusing to bar them entry. Encouraging the human traffickers to continue operating by sending vessels to rescue migrants and then taking them to Europe instead of returning them back. By (in Sweden at least) telling police to just accept any claim of being a child so long as the man doesn't look older than 40. By covering up crimes committed by groups for fear of a "right-wing backlash".

You seem a little confused about the responsibilities and obligations involved in asylum law. It's not 'bleeding heart buffooons' that enforce the obligation to review asylum applications - it's the application of the law. It's not an option to return refugees to Libya - it's once again a matter of adhereing to the law. So in a choice of letting people drown, or bringing them to Italy, what's your call? Nobody is covering up any crimes btw.

alastair wrote: »

The gender of the minors is really not of any importance to me.

Their age, legitimacy and culture doesn't seem to be either. So what is important to you, exactly?

jmayo wrote: »

For a start a lot of the so called minors from Calais and indeed off the boats to Europe have been proven to be bogus and frauds.
Two prime examples are the Berlin truck attacker who claimed he was minor when he first arrived in Italy although he was 19.
The supposed 15 year old refugee who stabbed the aid worker to death in Sweden was deemed to be an adult by the state and this is roll over and take it Sweden we are talking about.
One of the lone wolf attacks in Germany by so called minor was proven to be an adult.
The list goes on and on.

Also there were "refugees" (not refugees but economic migrants) in Calais before Syria really kicked off and lets just say a lot of them are a little too African looking to be Syrian

You are basically buying into the media, political, celebrity driven drivel that every one is a Syrian.
It is heartstring tugging at it's very worst.
And the left then complain about false information from the right. :rolleyes:

Of course when that Syrian myth is challenged the go to remark is that they are not all Syrians, but nevertheless they are refugees as they are fleeing warzones.
That can work when they are from Eritrea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Chad, Sudan, Mali, Somalia.
But what about when they are fleeing Nigeria, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Turkey, Pakistan, Iran, Kosovo ?

And after you look at the nationalities why not ask what is the gender breakdown and the age breakdown.
Compare these "refugees" to pictures of refugees from any other previous eras.
Hell why not compare it to Bosniac refugees.
They were also muslim, but yet they were primarily women, children and the old.

The gender of the minors is really not of any importance to me. Sorry about that. I'm also rather bemused by how you managed to determine how I form my views on refugees, but let's just say that you're not winning any prizes for special insights there.

Confused mum84 wrote: »

1. Shouldn't we be prioritising the youngest & therefore most vulnerable of children ? Have seen reports of children as young as 12 being unaccompanied.

Well you can hardly pass a 34 year old man off as a 12 year old, but they could probably pass for 17.

Confused mum84 wrote: »

2. Why will majority be male? It's been well documented that unaccompanied girls faces huge risks of sexual assault & human trafficking . Again , shouldn't this young group be prioritised as much as almost adult males

Because the vast, vast majority of migrants in general are male

Confused mum84 wrote: »

3. It's well known that there are people in their 20's & well into their 30's claiming to be "17 year old children" . Why are we intentionally rewarding this decit by prioritising this age group..these people are stopping a genuine child from getting a proper place in a host country . Of course we need to include some 17 year olds but why prioritise this age ...

Because the bleeding heart buffoons have been intentionally rewarding deceit and illegality since this crisis started. Encouraging hundreds of thousands of make a dangerous trip by refusing to bar them entry. Encouraging the human traffickers to continue operating by sending vessels to rescue migrants and then taking them to Europe instead of returning them back. By (in Sweden at least) telling police to just accept any claim of being a child so long as the man doesn't look older than 40. By covering up crimes committed by groups for fear of a "right-wing backlash".

Confused mum84 wrote: »

Makes me think it's all down to money & a box ticking exercise . The cost of "caring for a 17 year old child " is going to be far far less cheaper in the medium to long term for the government . Thus the government can get a "pat on the back " for doing their bit while keeping costs as low as possible

It's a feel-good response from the rationally inept and the morally superior that has caused more harm than good. No doubt Miss Zappone will find a comfortable job with an NGO after her stint in the Dáil (if she doesn't simply go back to the Seanad of course).

jmayo

alastair wrote: »

Thing is - those posts are undeniably racist.

Re: Calais unaccompanied minors - no problem here with taking them in, nor with pulling such a percentage of our Syrian refugee numbers from Calais rather than Turkey/Jordan. My only query is on the costs mooted for this 20 - they seem entirely overblown and plucked out of the air.

Great cavalcade of knee jerk bile evident in this thread though. Doing the country proud.

For a start a lot of the so called minors from Calais and indeed off the boats to Europe have been proven to be bogus and frauds.
Two prime examples are the Berlin truck attacker who claimed he was minor when he first arrived in Italy although he was 19.
The supposed 15 year old refugee who stabbed the aid worker to death in Sweden was deemed to be an adult by the state and this is roll over and take it Sweden we are talking about.
One of the lone wolf attacks in Germany by so called minor was proven to be an adult.
The list goes on and on.

Also there were "refugees" (not refugees but economic migrants) in Calais before Syria really kicked off and lets just say a lot of them are a little too African looking to be Syrian

You are basically buying into the media, political, celebrity driven drivel that every one is a Syrian.
It is heartstring tugging at it's very worst.
And the left then complain about false information from the right. :rolleyes:

Of course when that Syrian myth is challenged the go to remark is that they are not all Syrians, but nevertheless they are refugees as they are fleeing warzones.
That can work when they are from Eritrea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Chad, Sudan, Mali, Somalia.
But what about when they are fleeing Nigeria, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Turkey, Pakistan, Iran, Kosovo ?

And after you look at the nationalities why not ask what is the gender breakdown and the age breakdown.
Compare these "refugees" to pictures of refugees from any other previous eras.
Hell why not compare it to Bosniac refugees.
They were also muslim, but yet they were primarily women, children and the old.

jmayo

Mary63 wrote: »

The PC brigade are hilarious, Irish people are among the most racist on the planet and we are so awful to want immigration of non nationals controlled.

An Irish person is made to feel uncomfortable in their workplace by a group of Polish colleagues we should have laid out the red carpet to welcome.Instead of the Poles trying to make an effort to speak in english, a language they are fully competent in, they speak in Polish knowing this makes a work environment very unpleasant for the single Irish person who doesn't speak Polish.Its the fault of the Irish person that they don't learn Polish and the fact that they haven't done this and feel isolated means they are paranoid.

You really couldn't make this nonsense up.

Why do the UK authorities have a problem with the number of Poles coming into the UK.The Poles pose no danger to their host country as afar as I know though they do seem to have a huge problem with alcohol and are regularly in Court facing serious charges.Seemingly they don't pay car insurance either, all those VW small cars you see being driven so dangerously are being driven by Poles with no insurance.

ETA http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/court-hears-of-17-individuals-in-one-room-in-dublin-house-1.2948095

Hopefully if all these people are illegal immigrants they an all be deported now.More than likely though they will be put on the councils housing list and given emergency accommodation.

Come on now.
I am definitely not a fan of muslim immigrants and some African asylum seeking welfare and passports, but the Poles and indeed other European nationalities have added a fair bit to this country.
Any of those immigrants, and lets be fair those from further afield in Asia or South America and some Africans have worked damn hard when they get here.

They are just doing what Irish have done for a big chunk of our history.
They come to work, send money back home to the folks and make a better life for themselves and their families.

And seriously can you not see the irony of having a go at Poles for having alcohol problems.

And as for the British not being happy about Poles, they should remember how many of them died to help Britain in WWII and how the British government together with the yanks sold out the Poles to Stalin.