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What Concerns You Most?

Homer01

Thought this could be interesting to pass the time.

What concerns you most about joining the PSNI?

Shift work, dangerous work environment, carrying a firearm, the uniform, the exams?

For me it would be the work / life balance. I have a family and currently live a pretty easy 9-5 life. I'm concerned I'd miss things at home and other life events. Staying on way past your finish time or having rest days cancelled cannot be good for any family.

I'm going in with my eyes wide open but these would be my main concerns if I get that far.

Come on don't be shy; show us that there are people out there

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Homer01

Tackleberry1 wrote: »

Imagine they hit a member of the public or a child... I don't want to bring up politics at all but imagine they hit a loyalist civilian... tit for tat killings back on the streets. Would love to know the mindset behind these people and what they hope to achieve.

Exactly; we all saw the madness over the CS spray at the Ormeau Rd parade last year.

I'm sure this will be covered in GV and the various options covered. Carrying a firearm brings a lot responsibility and using it is rarely black & white. There are many consequences and pulling the trigger on another human should not be taken lightly.

Tackleberry1

Imagine they hit a member of the public or a child... I don't want to bring up politics at all but imagine they hit a loyalist civilian... tit for tat killings back on the streets. Would love to know the mindset behind these people and what they hope to achieve.

Banterbus28

If it does dissuade people then good, means us lurkers will get in sooner rather than later lol. But in all honestly would you rather have some one who truly understands the risks by your side or someone who is naive and thinks the world is all flowery?

Banterbus28

Homer01 wrote: »

blueboat wrote: »

I suppose another question to ask. We all know discharging your weapon is a last resort. And purely playing devils advocate once again, is there a fear e.g when using your weapon, even in such situations? For example being reprimanded.

I would imagine the consequences and criticism of the media/politicians would factor into using your PPW. Sad but true.

Look at how the firearms officers on the mainland get hounded and presumed to be in the wrong.

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by six.

jordansp21

I just wonder with what happened to the prison officer in the bombing and this gun attack has it put anyone of joining? Out of curiosity

blueboat

An endless amount of variables to consider. I guess it's important to think about these things. Could be anyone of us in the same situation in the future. Speedy recovery to the officer in question.

blueboat

I can imagine. Also bullets plus petrol station doesn't equal great.

Homer01

blueboat wrote: »

I suppose another question to ask. We all know discharging your weapon is a last resort. And purely playing devils advocate once again, is there a fear e.g when using your weapon, even in such situations? For example being reprimanded.

I would imagine the consequences and criticism of the media/politicians would factor into using your PPW. Sad but true.

Look at how the firearms officers on the mainland get hounded and presumed to be in the wrong.

didierdrogba

blueboat wrote: »

In relation to the shooting the other night. Was there a reason why officer's PPW was not used? Admitting it I do not know all the facts concerning it. Surely a clear reasoning to return fire tho. To play devils advocate would it concern anyone having to use their weapon in such a situation?

He was hit with three high calibre rounds before he was likely to have had time react mate. The likelihood is that this attack took less than a minute I'd hazard a guess that his thought process went something like...WTF. Ouch. I need to take cover. Ouch. Am I still alive. Even if he'd had the wherewithal and physical capability of drawing his firearm at that point as has been pointed out he'd have to take account of the backdrop, time of the evening, number of civilians running about and the area he was in...there would have been far too much chance of hitting a passerby so have engaged in a gunfight...

blueboat

I suppose another question to ask. We all know discharging your weapon is a last resort. And purely playing devils advocate once again, is there a fear when using your weapon, even in such situations? For example being reprimanded.

blueboat

Good point Jordan, deff a factor to take into consideration.

jordansp21

The reason he probably didn't use his weapon was because it was in such a built up area he could have hit anyone I suppose it's like flight or fight your in the moment no one knows exactly what they will do until there in that situation

jordansp21

blueboat

In relation to the shooting the other night. Was there a reason why officer's PPW was not used? Admitting it I do not know all the facts concerning it. Surely a clear reasoning to return fire tho. To play devils advocate would it concern anyone having to use their weapon in such a situation?

Tackleberry1

Thanks Clanman, it'll be my first new job in around 12 years and also the first time doing proper exams since GCSE's a long time ago so just a HUGE change. Really looking forward to it despite the worries though!

Clanman889

Tackleberry I have it from a friend who went through GV that whilst it's tough it's very achievable and you all work hard together as a squad to pull each other through. Great mentality to have going in is thinking that 'we're all in this together so if I find I'm strong at A and he or she is strong at B then we help each other out' Whether it be exam studies or pushing each other to make the PT level expected, it's all about commitment and it appears only those that really should be weeded out will be weeded out. Honest effort and hard graft seem to go a long way here. If you're in it for the right reasons I believe you've little to fear. Just the typical nerves that go with entering any new environment, especially one you want to do well in so badly.

Tackleberry1

Homer01 wrote: »

Thanks for the input folks, always appreciated.
Not motivated by fear of getting booted out because you failed an exam. (I appreciate it may not be as simple as that but get the meaning)

Don't get me wrong if I get in I'll will work hard to graduate. If I struggle I'll ask for help and if others struggle I'll try to help them. I don't want my hand held or my @ss wiped. I hate to see people that think the world owes them everything and they should be applauded for turning up. I agree the compulsory residential and show parades might have helped those who needed that 'guidance'.

To be fair that is one of my fears.. I'm worried I won't cut it on the exams and not make it through GV. I'll be the same as yourself, asking for help and offering it if need be. Just a scary thought to give up my job that I have a lot of security in to have the possibility of failing..

Homer01

Thanks for the input folks, always appreciated.

Personally I am a bit disappointed that if I get in I'll miss out on the drilling, the show parades and the playing of the 'game'. I've read enough about over the past 3 and a half years I kinda feel cheated out of the full GV experience; I'd be getting GV Lite with only half the calories

At the same time training should always be evolving to meet the latest standards. I don't think a student should feel under high pressure of have a fear of failing in GV. If they do either the student is missing something or the training is missing something.
You should be motivated to be the best in your class, to graduate in front of your family with pride and get the job of a lifetime. Not motivated by fear of getting booted out because you failed an exam. (I appreciate it may not be as simple as that but get the meaning)

Don't get me wrong if I get in I'll will work hard to graduate. If I struggle I'll ask for help and if others struggle I'll try to help them. I don't want my hand held or my @ss wiped. I hate to see people that think the world owes them everything and they should be applauded for turning up. I agree the compulsory residential and show parades might have helped those who needed that 'guidance'.

I guess we'll have to see how it all pans out. One big issue I remember reading in the report was the loss of experienced trainers over the years as they took voluntary redundancy. I do hope that doesn't become a problem.

majgreen

Homer01 wrote: »

My new concern is that recruits from 2017 onwards will be viewed differently from those who went through GV previously. As if the current training is somehow less worthy than before.

Things change and these recent changes may have been a long time coming. I'm sure the same was said with the change from RUC to PSNI but they all put the uniform on one leg at a time and take the same risks on the job.
I've never been to GV but I hope to get there and if I do I hope my fellow officers will not view me as any less than them because I didn't bull boots or have show parades; it wasn't a choice I had.

A police college shouldn't be a place of high pressure and fear of failure. It should be an environment of learning and support. A place where students can make mistakes and learn from them without the eyes of world upon them. It shouldn't apologise for being a safe place. GV is only the start of your training; they don't expect perfect policemen and policemenwomen out the door. That is why you have another two years of probationary learning in the field.

If I can spend more time learning how to help the community and protect lives then I'll take it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the majority of day to day policing is not terrorism related. It's about domestic abuse, anti social behaviour and many other issues that affect lives every day. I want to know how to deal with these issues professionally and with respect to help others and grow respect for the police. If bulling boots and show parades help then I'm all for it, if detracts from it then scrap it.

'Train hard, fight easy'

I just wanted to comment on this as I can understand your concerns but want to address it with my own views:
Firstly, nobody will look down on you or treat you any different because you've been through a different training programme that is out of your control. Sure you may get the odd joke about having it easy, but it will all be banterous. It doesn't make YOU less worthy, less trained. At the end of the day you have still passed one of the toughest, if not the toughest, police application processes in the world. On top of that you've just completed an intense 6 months training crash course. Its no mean feat.
GV was always a safe learning environment. The fear of failure and high pressure is minuscule compared to the real job. Mess up in GV, do a resit and an action plan. Mess up out on the ground? You could lose some of your yearly salary, lose your job and in some cases face criminal charges. The pressure in GV is to prepare you and to ensure that you have what it takes to keep a calm and collected approach. It teaches you to manage your time effectively when you have kit to press, boots to bull, a room to clean, revision and then fitness to do. Again, its nothing compared to juggling tasks and investigations on the ground but it teaches you to prioritise and how to use your time. (nothing like learning definitions whilst on the treadmill!).
The issue here is exactly as mentioned before. Students cheated an exam and then blamed the system. What was changed? The system. The system has worked perfectly fine for 15 years. You are joining a professional uniformed service. Discipline and attention to detail are mandatory. The militaristic style that has been scrapped was the reason the PSNI were able to weed out the candidates that were there for the wrong reasons. Its not an easy job and the training should be reflective of that.

jordansp21

My biggest concern is I just want to make it to GV!

Tackleberry1

Well said folks, couldn't agree more. I personally think GV SHOULD be hard, it SHOULD put us under pressure and give us a fear of failing. If we can learn how to deal with difficult and uncomfortable situations in a safe environment then that can only help to make us better when we're face to face with someone wanting to bash our teeth in while actually doing the job. I wouldn't want to leave GV if I didn't feel at least somewhat prepared and with the backing of my colleagues.

alphaquebec4

GV isn't a place of fear and failure its far from it and its geared to get everyone through the training as it has done for years with out an issue. It is this generations laziness and I'll sit on my ass xbox culture and wanting everything handed to them on a plate is the problem, you only need to look at why GV had to change......a squad caught cheating and what's the answer well of course we blame the system and change it to suit there incompetence! Any other force would have booted them all out. It's almost as if people go into the police with their eyes shut thinking it's a job at tescos, a wee 9-5 job, 20min drive from home, out on time for a night after work etc. It's not that at all, it's a disciplined organisation with rules and regulations. You won't be off on time you will do crazy hours at a moments notice and will deal with serious situations, people will look to you as the person who should know what to do when your first to a road traffic collision, GBH or a stabbing etc. There is people who need a wake up call to that. The bulling boots, show parades, drill, residential period etc are there to mould everyone together as a squad and make them function as a unit and something that you should take pride in doing and as a privlage. It's a right of passage denied us now for the actions of a few. As Homer said we will put on the same uniform and do the same job as the rest before us and im sure they won't think less of us but I'm sure we will get a slagging not having done it. And your right Homer a lot of stuff like ASB DV theft etc is your bread and butter but there still is the ever present threat as seen yesterday by all, this is a job like no other.

Bunsen1burner

Homer01 wrote: »

My new concern is that recruits from 2017 onwards will be viewed differently from those who went through GV previously. As if the current training is somehow less worthy than before.

Things change and these recent changes may have been a long time coming. I'm sure the same was said with the change from RUC to PSNI but they all put the uniform on one leg at a time and take the same risks on the job.
I've never been to GV but I hope to get there and if I do I hope my fellow officers will not view me as any less than them because I didn't bull boots or have show parades; it wasn't a choice I had.

A police college shouldn't be a place of high pressure and fear of failure. It should be an environment of learning and support. A place where students can make mistakes and learn from them without the eyes of world upon them. It shouldn't apologise for being a safe place. GV is only the start of your training; they don't expect perfect policemen and policemenwomen out the door. That is why you have another two years of probationary learning in the field.

If I can spend more time learning how to help the community and protect lives then I'll take it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the majority of day to day policing is not terrorism related. It's about domestic abuse, anti social behaviour and many other issues that affect lives every day. I want to know how to deal with these issues professionally and with respect to help others and grow respect for the police. If bulling boots and show parades help then I'm all for it, if detracts from it then scrap it.

'Train hard, fight easy'

Fair points well made Homer!

Homer01

My new concern is that recruits from 2017 onwards will be viewed differently from those who went through GV previously. As if the current training is somehow less worthy than before.

Things change and these recent changes may have been a long time coming. I'm sure the same was said with the change from RUC to PSNI but they all put the uniform on one leg at a time and take the same risks on the job.
I've never been to GV but I hope to get there and if I do I hope my fellow officers will not view me as any less than them because I didn't bull boots or have show parades; it wasn't a choice I had.

A police college shouldn't be a place of high pressure and fear of failure. It should be an environment of learning and support. A place where students can make mistakes and learn from them without the eyes of world upon them. It shouldn't apologise for being a safe place. GV is only the start of your training; they don't expect perfect policemen and policemenwomen out the door. That is why you have another two years of probationary learning in the field.

If I can spend more time learning how to help the community and protect lives then I'll take it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the majority of day to day policing is not terrorism related. It's about domestic abuse, anti social behaviour and many other issues that affect lives every day. I want to know how to deal with these issues professionally and with respect to help others and grow respect for the police. If bulling boots and show parades help then I'm all for it, if detracts from it then scrap it.

'Train hard, fight easy'

Tackleberry1

The shooting tonight doesn't help much in reassuring the family! Glad the officer is alright!

majgreen

A health work/life balance is hard to maintain. Shift work, overtime and the general exhaustion of the job all play their part. It's hard at first but you get used to it and learn how to make the most of the time you have

Banterbus28

My personal fear is the work/life balance. Both me and the other half are keen to start a family once we have our **** together lol. Dont want to miss milestones etc.

Family are very supportive. Other half not so much.

Tackleberry1

Same as nerves but being from the Belfast area my family grew up during troubles and haven't had the greatest experiences with the police force. They've nothing necessarily against the police though, it's mainly the security and threat level.

Nerves2016

In my case, i know the security factor is their biggest concern (and ability to stay/go home from time to time) - mainly my parents

majgreen

Out of interest, what is it you think will make them be unhappy for you? I know there are general fears due to the nature of the job but I'm interested to see what puts people off?