maryishere wrote: » The British built infrastructure too, but China is taking far more raw materials out of Africa than the Europeans (and there were 5 main European countries who carved up Africa / were in the scramble for Africa many generations ago). Anyway do keep on topic, this thread is about B.Army recruitment from Ireland etc.
FrancieBrady wrote: » It beggars belief that given the history of this country, that it's defenders here in Ireland would deem it fit to lecture anybody on morals or proper behaviour. This was the country that had in it's Manual Of Military War, the charming humanitarian get out clause that prohibited them from using chemical warfare on anybody but uncivilized States and tribes. This was the country that had presided and engineered the deaths of millions upon million of Bengalis in famines since the 1700's and which intimately involved the callousness of the 'great' Churchill himself.http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/soutikbiswas/2010/10/how_churchill_starved_india.html A line in the above which should chill every decent Irish man and woman: Of course as is done with our own famine the defenders of Churchill will quote parliamentary records in his defence, where all the right things are said, but as we know to our huge cost the realities on the ground was tragically different. Churchills recorded comments e.g. that it was more important to save Greeks and liberated people than indians or They are a beastly people with a beastly religion." The famine was their own fault, for "breeding like rabbits, are swept away and explained as unguarded moments etc etc. It is interesting that back when the Nobel Prize still had some integrity or import, that he was not awarded the Peace Prize (neither was Gandhi, but at least the committee cite that omission as it's biggest regret) but the Nobel Prize for Literature for his biography: "for his mastery of historical and biographical description as well as for brilliant oratory in defending exalted human values". Perhaps it should have been the Nobel Prize for Fiction.
Jawgap wrote: » Nobody, as far as I can see, is 'defending' Churchill, just calling for proper historical objectivity in the analysis of his record, not all of which was glorious and much of which was deplorable. Always worth remembering that JFK's admonition that the enemy of truth is the myth, not the lie......;)
FrancieBrady wrote: » Your relatives, the subject of this thread 'recruits to the British Army' are defending Britain. Churchill is just a part of the history of Britain which we have diverted into in this discussion,
Fratton Fred wrote: » Or put another way, this is a thread about Britain. Therefore FrancieBrady will write loads and loads of posts, the majority of which are just the product of his own bigotry and general dislike and are based on very little reality or truth. Anyone who disagrees with him is: a) an defender of the realm b) a west Brit c) anti Irish
Jawgap wrote: The local Shinner cumann meetings......c 32 CE
ohnonotgmail wrote: » d) has an inferiority complex
Fratton Fred wrote: » this is a thread about Britain.
FrancieBrady wrote: » And now the 'attack the poster' not the 'post' begins. Wonder what that is a sign of?
Junkyard Tom wrote: » No, it's about the British Army and, more specifically, people from Ireland who join it. Let's not conflate military adventurism and foreign policy with a nation. 'You hate country X' is all too often the dull-minded strawman thrown at people who are critical of 'country Xs' foreign policies and exploits.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » how can i be attacking you when i am jut repeating what you said?
FrancieBrady wrote: » Your relatives, the subject of this thread 'recruits to the British Army' are defending Britain. Churchill is just a part of the history of Britain which we have diverted into in this discussion
FrancieBrady wrote: » As you have praised the building of 2 or 3? new carriers for the RN, the question is, has Britain changed,?
FrancieBrady wrote: » Is it still an expansionist, imperialistic exploiter of other regions of the world? Or is it now a force for good in the world (it's own vision of itself and it's defenders on here) And consequently, is it a moral and justifiable thing to do to join in that for an Irish person.
“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
FrancieBrady wrote: » Because I never at any point stated that the reason 'anyone' disagrees with me is because they 'have an inferiority complex'. I very clearly said that some people in Ireland have the views they have because of an inferiority complex.
FrancieBrady wrote: » I also never said or used the words 'west Brit' against anyone either. But the scattergun of personal attack isn't very precise, it seems.
Jawgap wrote: » Ah, plenty of Irish patriots served (and continue to serve) their time in the BA. I doubt many from the Republic sign up to go defend queen and country, they sign up to go soldier. Plus, I'm not sure how the humanitarian work they (and the Irish DF) do 'defend' the UK (and in the case of the Irish DF, the Republic)? Unless you believe in Joesph Nye's hypotheses regarding soft power. Yeah, but that's because I'm a 'weapons pervert' Plus I probably read too much Patrick O'Brian as a kid, and Top Gun came out slap bang in the middle of my adolescence. Lots of Paddies sign up to join the USMC and here's what Smedley Butler (retired General, 2-time CMH and countless other awards) had to say about them..... ......and he was right, war is a racket and those countries that can expand will expand.....as China and Russia are currently and clearly demonstrating at the moment in trying to expand their hegemony beyond what might be considered their 'traditional' sphere of influence and of course both see it as just working their way back into areas/regions that were historically theirs. One nation unilaterally resolving to rein itself in isn't going to stop all the others.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » and it just so happens that these "some people " are the ones that disagree with you. convenient.
Never said you did. you need to address that to somebody else.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Absolutely, and always thrown in to the conversation at a certain point.
Jawgap wrote: » Why would a parody of a political meeting referencing the Shinners be construed as an attack on a poster? Unless of course the poster is a member of the Shinners? Otherwise, it's just a.bit of humour
FrancieBrady wrote: » Wrong again. I did not say 'anyone' who disagrees with me suffers from this. You are clutching now. No you didn't, but you felt justified in adding another lie to list.
Fratton Fred wrote: » when posters hate the country's army, foreign policy, football team and every single person in history who is from that country, it is easy to draw conclusions. Especially when it is every single thread that remotely relates to Britain.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » you like to throw out the inferiority complex accusation when somebody says something positive about anything british related. case in point.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102320946&postcount=1079 There are many others on other threads but i'm not allowed to quote those.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » That quote from Butler is very powerful. Would have liked to have met that man.
FrancieBrady wrote: » My 7 year old could defend his behaviour better and with more credibility.
FrancieBrady wrote: » That was in reply to ONE post. We will wait patiently for a quote where I say 'anyone' who disagrees with me 'has an inferiority complex'> You said it, YOU back it up or be man/woman enough to withdraw it and leave it alone.
inferɪnˈfəː/Submit verb deduce or conclude (something) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements. Wrong, must try harder.
FrancieBrady wrote: » I said it before, I ask the same question of those who join any foreign army.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » I just inferred it from the rest of your posts. Inferring is perfectly valid isnt it?
Jawgap wrote: » Indeed his book - War is a Racket - is quite a read given his rank and record! I can only imagine the fuss it must have caused at the time when it was published! I think I would have like to have met a contemporary of his - Bill Leahy - and sat in on some the meetings he had about US naval policy...... ....I wonder what certain posters on here would've made of him..... an Irish-American officer, of senior rank who was very expansionist in his outlook and hated Churchill..... .....or the notorious Anglophobe - Ernest King who also detested Churchill, believed in an expansionist naval policy and whose inaction led to thousands of fighting and merchant sailors being killed? But I supposed they'd be fine because they're Americans
Deleted User wrote: » Meh, I'd sooner find ways to while away the time, maybe do a course, maybe even move somewhere rather than signing up to kill and die on the whims of politicians.
Jawgap wrote: » Well, as per my previous and repeated posts......you get some insight here....http://www.independent.ie/woman/celeb-news/the-irish-legionnaire-26455086.html As you can see, fighting to defend the Fifth Republic figured prominently in his thinking :rolleyes:
FrancieBrady wrote: » So that would be a 'No, I can't show where you said 'anyone who disagrees with me suffers from an inferiority complex'. And you are not man/woman enough to withdraw the remark. Classic.
