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Best job for part time farmer.

laoch na mona

seen as a lot of us are part time these days I'm curious what do you think are the best jobs for farmers.

Obviously what makes a job good is different for different people but considering basics like time commitment, cross over skills, commute, and income (the important one) and any other important criteria you can think of, what do you think makes a job suitable for a farmer.

My current job is office based and full time, The skills I've learned defiantly help with the business side of farming and set hours mean that I can plan my time relatively well.

Importantly for me I'm able to save/pay off my student debt. I could see my self needing a job which involves less hours in a few years though

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20silkcut

Cran wrote: »

I would think full time farmers with high SFP has as much on impact farms not reaching full potential as farmers with part time jobs do tbh

In my opinion the SFP or BPS is the root of all evil in farming. And is most responsible for stifling potential .

Cran

20silkcut wrote: »

What I am highlighting is the potential loss to the economy by part time farming.
The fact that a farm is being farmed part time generally means it is not being farmed to its fullest potential now I know there are exceptions to this.
But there is a loss in terms of cattle/milk/crop sales a loss in terms of input/contractors/vets etc . This is all unseen and painless because it is activity that does not exist so nobody misses it but it is a lost opportunity.

Taking the example of the teacher society loses out by having a part time farmer teacher in that the said teacher is unlikely to partake in extra curricular work or give grinds or put in the extra work needed to improve their career. It is a lose lose in pure economic terms.
But of course that is all very abstract.

As you say in your post nothing beats getting home from work and heading out into the fields to check the cattle on a summers evening.

I would think full time farmers with high SFP has as much on impact farms not reaching full potential as farmers with part time jobs do tbh

20silkcut

Username John wrote: »

I kinda see it the opposite way...

You seem to see two jobs as competing with each, whereas I see them
complimenting really...

I work in an office, so to go home on a nice evening and head out is nice, I find it relaxing. It may seem odd to say, but I find it therapeutic.

On the flip side - I head off to my office job every morning, and I work as hard as I can there, I find that fulfilling, as I like my job.

In terms of what pays better - the full time job, absolutely hands down. The returns from farming don't compare. This is part of the reason I have some of our place leased on a long term lease - I kept some of it back, to 'hobby farm' as you say yourself
It still needs to generate a profit, but its less workload for me, plus the money from the tax-free lease is as much as I could generate myself from farming it, with a lot less time and effort...

What I am highlighting is the potential loss to the economy by part time farming.
The fact that a farm is being farmed part time generally means it is not being farmed to its fullest potential now I know there are exceptions to this.
But there is a loss in terms of cattle/milk/crop sales a loss in terms of input/contractors/vets etc . This is all unseen and painless because it is activity that does not exist so nobody misses it but it is a lost opportunity.

Taking the example of the teacher society loses out by having a part time farmer teacher in that the said teacher is unlikely to partake in extra curricular work or give grinds or put in the extra work needed to improve their career. It is a lose lose in pure economic terms.
But of course that is all very abstract.

As you say in your post nothing beats getting home from work and heading out into the fields to check the cattle on a summers evening.

Username John

20silkcut wrote: »

This is a very worthy and genuine reason and it is what drives many farmers in this country myself included.

The thing is a farm or any business should grow and improve as time goes by. If a farm is being limited in its growth by an off farm job then questions need to be asked. Likewise if an off farm job is being limited by the farm.
Would a teacher not be better off doing grinds in their time off or spending more time on their career and try and become a principal. Or even just use their time off for leisure or holidays and be fresher going in to work and healthier.
If your not growing your farm it stagnates and it does not reach its full potential. This has a negative impact on the wider agricultural economy.
Likewise If your not furthering your career it stagnates and potential remains unfulfilled.
I don't see the point in having an unfulfilled farm and an unfulfilled career.

I kinda see it the opposite way...

You seem to see two jobs as competing with each, whereas I see them
complimenting really...

I work in an office, so to go home on a nice evening and head out is nice, I find it relaxing. It may seem odd to say, but I find it therapeutic.

On the flip side - I head off to my office job every morning, and I work as hard as I can there, I find that fulfilling, as I like my job.

In terms of what pays better - the full time job, absolutely hands down. The returns from farming don't compare. This is part of the reason I have some of our place leased on a long term lease - I kept some of it back, to 'hobby farm' as you say yourself

It still needs to generate a profit, but its less workload for me, plus the money from the tax-free lease is as much as I could generate myself from farming it, with a lot less time and effort...

Bass Reeves

kowtow wrote: »

20silkcut wrote:

The thing is a farm or any business should grow and improve as time goes by. If a farm is being limited in its growth by an off farm job then questions need to be asked. Likewise if an off farm job is being limited by the farm. Would a teacher not be better off doing grinds in their time off or spending more time on their career and try and become a principal. Or even just use their time off for leisure or holidays and be fresher going in to work and healthier. If your not growing your farm it stagnates and it does not reach its full potential. This has a negative impact on the wider agricultural economy. Likewise If your not furthering your career it stagnates and potential remains unfulfilled. I don't see the point in having an unfulfilled farm and an unfulfilled career.

The question which keeps crossing my mind is what sort of well run business would employ a farmer whose mind at least, if not the rest of him, would rather be at home sorting out the farm.

Notwithstanding the fact that farmers are by and large great workers.

Tricky balance to strike there.

I would much prefer to employ a semi-interested good worker rather than a lazy sod. I see lads that are more interest in avoiding any work that have nothing to do in the evening . There is an old saying if you want something done ask the busy man.

kowtow

20silkcut wrote:

The thing is a farm or any business should grow and improve as time goes by. If a farm is being limited in its growth by an off farm job then questions need to be asked. Likewise if an off farm job is being limited by the farm. Would a teacher not be better off doing grinds in their time off or spending more time on their career and try and become a principal. Or even just use their time off for leisure or holidays and be fresher going in to work and healthier. If your not growing your farm it stagnates and it does not reach its full potential. This has a negative impact on the wider agricultural economy. Likewise If your not furthering your career it stagnates and potential remains unfulfilled. I don't see the point in having an unfulfilled farm and an unfulfilled career.

The question which keeps crossing my mind is what sort of well run business would employ a farmer whose mind at least, if not the rest of him, would rather be at home sorting out the farm.

Notwithstanding the fact that farmers are by and large great workers.

Tricky balance to strike there.

Bass Reeves

Username John wrote: »

20silkcut wrote: »

Honestly I think if your home farm doesn't stack up financially on its own two feet what is the point?
For the love of it ?
Fair enough I understand that.

I think I said 'stack up financially full time'

So are you saying what's the point in farming part time?

I think a lot has to do with love of it. Plus, its a handy second income, on its own its not much, but on top of an existing wage - its very nice...

It is often more than nice it can change the economics of both the job and the farm. You are not stuck to draw down taxable income from the farm and farm losses can be written off against PAYE income. Time is a constraint but then so is money if you farm full-time. I see a lot of lads that are full-time and are buying and dealing/tangling. They spend longer days than I do even with the day job.

20silkcut

Username John wrote: »

I think I said 'stack up financially full time'

So are you saying what's the point in farming part time?

I think a lot has to do with love of it....

This is a very worthy and genuine reason and it is what drives many farmers in this country myself included.

The thing is a farm or any business should grow and improve as time goes by. If a farm is being limited in its growth by an off farm job then questions need to be asked. Likewise if an off farm job is being limited by the farm.
Would a teacher not be better off doing grinds in their time off or spending more time on their career and try and become a principal. Or even just use their time off for leisure or holidays and be fresher going in to work and healthier.
If your not growing your farm it stagnates and it does not reach its full potential. This has a negative impact on the wider agricultural economy.
Likewise If your not furthering your career it stagnates and potential remains unfulfilled.
I don't see the point in having an unfulfilled farm and an unfulfilled career.

Username John

20silkcut wrote: »

Honestly I think if your home farm doesn't stack up financially on its own two feet what is the point?
For the love of it ?
Fair enough I understand that.

I think I said 'stack up financially full time'

So are you saying what's the point in farming part time?

I think a lot has to do with love of it. Plus, its a handy second income, on its own its not much, but on top of an existing wage - its very nice...

20silkcut

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In a drystock operation what amount of good land(not even middling or poor land) would you need for a full-time e operation. Little difference between contracting, dealing, cattle transport or agent and the hours a teacher puts in. It is very hard to make money off rented land even if you have payments for it. And if there is payments on the rented land the owner wants them on top of the rent The worst of it is somebody will give it to him. If you are paying 100-150/ acre for land unless you are squeezing some payments off it are you making another 100/ acre off it. Rented land swallows time as well a lot of it will be poorly fenced and internal fencing g will be non existent generally.

Of course you will mind the day job but it gives you a platform to expand if you wish. If you decide to buy land younwill not have to worry about getting a lot of money after tax to pay for it. Your biggest issue will be drawing you profit down efficiently but that is possible as well. I am in my mid fifties and the land I own I bought, if an opportunity comes to buy again I will take that opportunity. The only time I intend to farm full-time is when I retire around sixty

Your waiting until your past your prime to go full time farming in fairness that kind of puts the farm in the ha' penny place.

20silkcut

Username John wrote: »

But isn't the issue here that current returns from farming wouldn't allow full time operations for most people... So its a case of what works best to allow some part time farming to take place...

To say it keeps it in the hobby category - well, you need to decide what job is your primary job. For most, thats the one that pays money, which wouldnt be the farming one... If done right, part-time farming can be a nice top-up, but thats it...
After that, you can call it hobby, or secondary, or part-time or whatever...

I really think you're looking at it the wrong way - if you want to farm, but your home farm doesnt stack up financially for full time - then go working for a farmer as a full time job, and part time farm at home.

Honestly I think if your home farm doesn't stack up financially on its own two feet what is the point?
For the love of it ?
Fair enough I understand that.

Bass Reeves

20silkcut wrote: »

Only thing about teaching is it limits farm growth and makes it unlikely that the farm will ever become a full time operation. You will always hold off buying those few extra cattle or renting that extra land because you have to mind your main profession. It keeps it very much in the hobby category. It would be madness to pack in teaching to go farming.
If your in a more Mickey Mouse off farm job you are more likely to grow and expand your farming enterprise. More likely to view the farm as your number one priority. More likely to increase time spent on the farm and reduce time spent working off farm as your finances improve.

In a drystock operation what amount of good land(not even middling or poor land) would you need for a full-time e operation. Little difference between contracting, dealing, cattle transport or agent and the hours a teacher puts in. It is very hard to make money off rented land even if you have payments for it. And if there is payments on the rented land the owner wants them on top of the rent The worst of it is somebody will give it to him. If you are paying 100-150/ acre for land unless you are squeezing some payments off it are you making another 100/ acre off it. Rented land swallows time as well a lot of it will be poorly fenced and internal fencing g will be non existent generally.

Of course you will mind the day job but it gives you a platform to expand if you wish. If you decide to buy land younwill not have to worry about getting a lot of money after tax to pay for it. Your biggest issue will be drawing you profit down efficiently but that is possible as well. I am in my mid fifties and the land I own I bought, if an opportunity comes to buy again I will take that opportunity. The only time I intend to farm full-time is when I retire around sixty

20silkcut

memorystick wrote: »

Not true.
What is the advantage of a full operation?
My bullocks can put the grass in their own mouths all summer long.

Advantages of a fulltime operation you can run your farm better devote more time to it and not be squeezing 5 days work into a Saturday. Surely the best job for a farmer is to be a 100% farmer without distractions or dividing his time between different careers.
Having more than 100 cattle and an off farm job is serious work if your on your own with little help.

Keepgrowing

tractorporn wrote: »

As said before if you work at something you love you'll never work a day in your life, but people can't live on fresh air. I don't see too many other professions needing a second job to keep them afloat. Teachers, nurses, guards and luas drivers weren't shy about looking for pay rises why should the farmer be happy with his lot?

Become a teacher, nurse or Luas driver and it'll be grand so

Username John

20silkcut wrote: »

Only thing about teaching is it limits farm growth and makes it unlikely that the farm will ever become a full time operation. You will always hold off buying those few extra cattle or renting that extra land because you have to mind your main profession. It keeps it very much in the hobby category. It would be madness to pack in teaching to go farming.
If your in a more Mickey Mouse off farm job you are more likely to grow and expand your farming enterprise. More likely to view the farm as your number one priority. More likely to increase time spent on the farm and reduce time spent working off farm as your finances improve.

But isn't the issue here that current returns from farming wouldn't allow full time operations for most people... So its a case of what works best to allow some part time farming to take place...

To say it keeps it in the hobby category - well, you need to decide what job is your primary job. For most, thats the one that pays money, which wouldnt be the farming one... If done right, part-time farming can be a nice top-up, but thats it...
After that, you can call it hobby, or secondary, or part-time or whatever...

I really think you're looking at it the wrong way - if you want to farm, but your home farm doesnt stack up financially for full time - then go working for a farmer as a full time job, and part time farm at home.

memorystick

20silkcut wrote: »

Only thing about teaching is it limits farm growth and makes it unlikely that the farm will ever become a full time operation. You will always hold off buying those few extra cattle or renting that extra land because you have to mind your main profession. It keeps it very much in the hobby category. It would be madness to pack in teaching to go farming.
If your in a more Mickey Mouse off farm job you are more likely to grow and expand your farming enterprise. More likely to view the farm as your number one priority. More likely to increase time spent on the farm and reduce time spent working off farm as your finances improve.

Not true.
What is the advantage of a full operation?
My bullocks can put the grass in their own mouths all summer long.

Who2

A soldier, you can retire on full pension just around the time you should be having the farm set up properly.

20silkcut

Only thing about teaching is it limits farm growth and makes it unlikely that the farm will ever become a full time operation. You will always hold off buying those few extra cattle or renting that extra land because you have to mind your main profession. It keeps it very much in the hobby category. It would be madness to pack in teaching to go farming.
If your in a more Mickey Mouse off farm job you are more likely to grow and expand your farming enterprise. More likely to view the farm as your number one priority. More likely to increase time spent on the farm and reduce time spent working off farm as your finances improve.

Noveight

badshot wrote: »

premiership footballer

Imagine the sucklers Aguero could run off of 220k a week? :eek::P

Hard to look past secondary teaching.

badshot

premiership footballer

Dickie10

Plese no grammer nazis , im not an english teacher, it only boards relax!

Dickie10

Teacher, i get plenty of time off in summer for silage, shearing etc then mid term breaks, xmas and easter. im only 7 miles from school so very handy for me compared to others. also sometimes have only 3 or 4 classes in a day and might be home at lunch. twice a week im finished at 2:45pm. home at 3:00

planning on lambing half my ewes around easter from now on, no matter if its early or late. the only draw backs are pay is not great if your money hungry and you have to love teenagers or teenage girls in my case! i love it though great fun at times. although there is a lot of evening paper work getting classes ready but if your into your subjects thats kind of like messing around at your hobby anyway. i will prob become bitter and twisted after a few years but im happy now anyway. like farming its a lifestyle choice, though it can take between 5 and 6 years to qualify from scratch so i could have been a vet as quick. i dont think id manage that kind of stress though! now back to Ancient Rome for me...........

[Deleted User]

The Swiss watch and cuckoo clock industry came from farmers needing to have work they could do from home in the winters when they were snowed in in winter. They needed something that wouldn't go off and that wouldn't take up space.

What would a modern equivalent be?
IT contracting?

A random suggestion that has regular/flexible hours and plenty of work is being a carer.

Panch18

There is a case for a fella with a bit of land to lease it and go working for a farmer - as opposed to getting another type of work

It's the best of all worlds, if you love farming you are still doing it full time, you will have your guaranteed weekly wage from the job, and the lease income will be tax free. Even if you didn't lease your own place but farmed it, what better employer than a farmer who will know what your going through if you want flexibility and things like that

Everybody and every situation is different though - what suits one migh not suit the other. Your location and land area are 2 things which have a major bearing on the choices you have.

What i will say is that any fella with a job and a bit of land as well is doing ok for himself

kowtow

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Did you ever read the farming ladder? Based on a mans experience setting up from scratch in the 30's, as relevant now as back then. I think its where joe salatin got most of his ideas from.

I didn't but I'll go and look it up for the reading pile!

IIRC Salatin was raised (in Central America I think) by fairly organic-hippy-agricultural parents, so it would have been a book of their time if not his as well I suspect. I may be wrong but I think his parents lost their land as a result of political upheaval and thats how he ended up back in the states.

yosemitesam1

kowtow wrote: »

+100 certainly as we have things set up today.

It would be nice to think that we could re-balance a bit so that premium and local foods and the markets that go with them became a part of the business of more and more farmers rather than a hipster niche - indeed I'm sure we'd be a healthier farming economy for it - but saying it and making it happen are two different things altogether.

Did you ever read the farming ladder? Based on a mans experience setting up from scratch in the 30's, as relevant now as back then. I think its where joe salatin got most of his ideas from.

Bass Reeves

Too many here have too fertile imagination's. If you have children !Ake sure they get the best education possible. Ifyour farm is incapable of supporting a decent living or may not do so in the future, or it !May be incapable of two incomes. Then you have to look at realistic options. There are thousands of different jobs out there it depends on the person's ability. Not everyone can be a teacher or a Garda or a nurse. However with farming at present it looks like on the drystock side people will need to supplement that farming income. For some that means a full-time job for other part time work may be suitable. Some choice to supplement there income by agro contracting, cattle dealing and transport.

However more and more farmers children are looking up the career/work ladder. Alot no longer want there work dependent on other farmers. Just because you are an AI/scan technician dose not mean that you do not have to be at specific places at specific times. Most other work is the same. He who pays the piper calls the tune. That is not today that some jobs are more flexible than others. However things like GPS has taken away a lot of traditional flexibility. Having a second self employed income may have it advantages but in general it hard to beat collecting your pay every Thursday or Friday.

If as an older farmer you need to partially supplement you income there are more and more part time jobs around. Lots of transportation and bus companies require/want drivers for only 2-3 days a week. The amount of semi retired lads and farmers driving school busses is substantial. If it is full-time work you require then that is there as well. Biggest issue with older farmers is maybe limited skillet or the need to go and get those extra licences which cost money. But at the moment if you want work I is there. This was not the case 2-6 years ago. But the biggest thing to remember is you new job has to get priority as well as the farm

Siamsa Sessions

What about getting involved in research projects?

Most agri-research funding from Irish Government and EU has to involve farmers (despite the Universities/Academics best efforts!).

Much of it is done thru Teagasc so you'd have to be "engaged" with them, but there are other Rural Development Programmes that offer funding for different projects.

Not sure how to go about it myself, but I reckon there's plenty options around farm data - how to gather it, process it, etc. For a little extra work, the farmer gets paid from his/her new "research enterprise"

kowtow

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I am afraid it is a very limited option for a very small number of people. It is not about drive it is about what is possible. Drive is not the issue either it is simple economics. The market is too limited.

+100 certainly as we have things set up today.

It would be nice to think that we could re-balance a bit so that premium and local foods and the markets that go with them became a part of the business of more and more farmers rather than a hipster niche - indeed I'm sure we'd be a healthier farming economy for it - but saying it and making it happen are two different things altogether.

dryan

Physical/sports therapist.
Flexible hours.
Mostly cash transactions.

Along with farming, it would be a match made in heaven.