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New Proposed Sheep Scheme

paddysdream

Surprised to find no one has mentioned the proposals for the new sheep scheme.Are the returns from sheep so good this year that it's slipped past everyone?

Looking at the options its hard not to feel that the thinking behind this (and many other schemes)is to give to the farmer and make him spend it on products and/or services that benefit the wider agri related industry.Kind of a green money laundering scheme.

Now in fairness the proposed options are not the most onerous but its the thinking behind them rather than the actual options themselves that I find a problem.Are many of these schemes planned to support farmers or, like the farm building grants of the celtic tiger era,mainly to benefit those that farmers buy from?

On an unrelated but similarly depressing theme,many on here finding that lamb thrive and kill out is pretty poor this year?Every single farmer that I have met over the last two months has the same complaint ie lambs not putting on flesh and/or killing out anything from one half to a full kilo under normal given similar live weight too last year.

Thats about my quota of depression for today thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

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Sami23

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Sami23 wrote: »

Thinking of doing the same 2 actions myself.
Just wondering will mineral buckets be sufficient for the mineral supplementation post mating action ?

https://twitter.com/FJSheep/status/821093593771286530

Yes but that doesn't answer my question about the mineral buckets. They would be a very easy way to comply with that action.
And the flystrike action should be ok if you dag the dirty ones and apply Clik or Ectofly etc

Inchilad

Was just enquiring to them on the phone this morning.would have just had a few pedigree lowland ewes last few years.after leasing hillfort recently and upped my numbers to nearly 100 ewes. All swaledale/scotch ewes.was told that I'll only get paid for the pedigrees.bit of a joke.surely would make sense to pick 2 out of hill flock measures.

tom_k

Sami23 wrote: »

Yes but that doesn't answer my question about the mineral buckets. They would be a very easy way to comply with that action.
And the flystrike action should be ok if you dag the dirty ones and apply Clik or Ectofly etc

I was at the Breaffy, Co. Mayo meeting last night, the mineral bucket question was asked and the reply was that mineral buckets were fine as long as manufacturer's instructions were adhered to. I.e. if it says one bucket is sufficient for 30 sheep for 10 days then you'll need 6 buckets for the 60 days if you have 30 ewes. Keeping of records and receipts required of course.

MayoAreMagic

tom_k wrote: »

I was at the Breaffy, Co. Mayo meeting last night, the mineral bucket question was asked and the reply was that mineral buckets were fine as long as manufacturer's instructions were adhered to. I.e. if it says one bucket is sufficient for 30 sheep for 10 days then you'll need 6 buckets for the 60 days if you have 30 ewes. Keeping of records and receipts required of course.

Sorry, couldn't make the meeting. Im just wondering if a course of cobalt doses would suffice for mineral supplementation? i.e. 30 cobalt every 20 days, dosing each animal 3 times - that is the correct rate for a ewe of around 50kg. There is no reason why it shouldn't. In fact it is far more reliable than leaving the bucket at them, as generally some ewes will gorge on them while others wont go near them... Not to mention that it is cheaper - those buckets are a rip off...

tom_k

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry, couldn't make the meeting. Im just wondering if a course of cobalt doses would suffice for mineral supplementation? i.e. 30 cobalt every 20 days, dosing each animal 3 times - that is the correct rate for a ewe of around 50kg. There is no reason why it shouldn't. In fact it is far more reliable than leaving the bucket at them, as generally some ewes will gorge on them while others wont go near them... Not to mention that it is cheaper - those buckets are a rip off...

The information given at the meeting was that any form of mineral supplementation is fine as long as manufacturer instructions are adhered to, this applies to licks, buckets, boluses, drenches, bagged minerals etc.

Record keeping and receipts are required. The Teagasc rep at the meeting made the point that merchants reps may be telling farmers that they need one product over another but that most farmers would/should know their mineral requirements generally. He made specific reference to cobalt requirements in our part of the country.

MayoAreMagic

tom_k wrote: »

The information given at the meeting was that any form of mineral supplementation is fine as long as manufacturer instructions are adhered to, this applies to licks, buckets, boluses, drenches, bagged minerals etc.

Record keeping and receipts are required. The Teagasc rep at the meeting made the point that merchants reps may be telling farmers that they need one product over another but that most farmers would/should know their mineral requirements generally. He made specific reference to cobalt requirements in our part of the country.

Thanks for the feedback. I've already encountered some scaremongering on this front 'you will need the lickblocks' - they cant explain why you need them though...
Considering my ewe numbers have risen considerably since the reference years, and the fact that you have to treat all ewes present on the farm, not just the ones you are getting the payment for, I would actually lose money if I went the lickblock route...

Was there much info given on the mineral supplementation pre-weaning option? It seems very vague in the documentation...

tom_k

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. I've already encountered some scaremongering on this front 'you will need the lickblocks' - they cant explain why you need them though...
Considering my ewe numbers have risen considerably since the reference years, and the fact that you have to treat all ewes present on the farm, not just the ones you are getting the payment for, I would actually lose money if I went the lickblock route...

Was there much info given on the mineral supplementation pre-weaning option? It seems very vague in the documentation...

It's the same from certain "wise men" around here, "Ya'll have to get the lick buckets - the dear ones!". Not true as confirmed last night. The main point made was that the 60 day supplementation begins on turning out the ram(s). And indeed as you pointed out its a whole flock measure so people, myself included will need to be smart when deciding which product to use. Most will already use the supplementation methods that work best for them already so it's just a matter of ensuring product coverage for the required 60 days.

There was little extra info given on the pre-weaning supplementation (Hill flocks). Most of what I learned was from the Q&A period after the presentation and I don't recall any questions on this particular measure - which was surprising given the good attendance of hill farmers (who aren't shy

).

Looking at the documentation it is quite vague regarding timing, lamb ages, coverage period etc.

Bleating Lamb

Have chosen the mineral supplementation measure,and scanning,would usually dose the ewes with Vit B 12 just before letting the ram out,logically it's not going to be a great idea to have to be handling ewes to dose them with minerals while the ram is out with them imo,what do others think?

rangler1

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Have chosen the mineral supplementation measure,and scanning,would usually dose the ewes with Vit B 12 just before letting the ram out,logically it's not going to be a great idea to have to be handling ewes to dose them with minerals while the ram is out with them imo,what do others think?

Why not bolus them before the ram goes out with them, I'd always bolus them a month before putting out the ram so that any deficiencies would be addressed before mating

razor8

Think the terms and conditions state post mating rather than pre mating which is very strange

Sheep breeder

rangler1 wrote: »

Why not bolus them before the ram goes out with them, I'd always bolus them a month before putting out the ram so that any deficiencies would be addressed before mating

Exactly the best method is the bolus given before we sponge and flush the ewe and one job done and dusted and all ewes covered. This is a simple straight forward scheme.

rangler1

razor8 wrote: »

Think the terms and conditions state post mating rather than pre mating which is very strange

Just read the Ts and Cs, boluses can be given 7 - 10 days before putting in the ram

paddysdream

razor8 wrote: »

Think the terms and conditions state post mating rather than pre mating which is very strange

Not really as the "thinking" behind it is that most people use mineral supplementation pre mating so the idea is to get people to do something which they normally don't.
No one seems to be clear as to what is or will be a correct amount or vector which may leave it open to interpetation.
Sales dockets will probably be the only means of testing compliance for this.
Not complaining re the ten euro but all these schemes seem to be a great way of handing out money to farmers and then getting us to distribute it amongst the wider community.

Bleating Lamb

rangler1 wrote: »

Why not bolus them before the ram goes out with them, I'd always bolus them a month before putting out the ram so that any deficiencies would be addressed before mating

That's my point,we give mineral drench pre mating,surely that would have made a lot more sense from an animal welfare point of view than rounding up stressed ewes when ram is out with them?

rangler1

Information meeting tomorrow night in Athlone

Nekarsulm

Thursday night in Carrick on Shannon. Staff there from 7pm onwards. Landmark Hoitel. Meeting starts at 8pm.

charolais0153

If you scanned 345 lambs from your 209 ewes let's say but you only sell 320 lambs and have none in your census.what are you going to say about 25 lambs that aren't there...fox,abortion...
Legally doesn't knackery have to take dead lamb

adam14

charolais0153 wrote:

If you scanned 345 lambs from your 209 ewes let's say but you only sell 320 lambs and have none in your census.what are you going to say about 25 lambs that aren't there...fox,abortion... Legally doesn't knackery have to take dead lamb

Our knackery takes a bag of them for a fiver with a dead ewe

MayoAreMagic

Id be cautious as regards the mineral dosing at mating for hill flocks. It will result in a number of ewes having twins that aren't capable of maintaining them on the hill. It might be a good idea if you have lowland grass that can maintain them for the spring and summer, but for any guys who let them back to the hills it could end up being a nightmare, i.e. higher losses in both sheep and lambs, a lot more runt lambs and ewes being in poor condition going to the ram the following year... Sheep welfare?

A far more suitable option for hill flocks would be supplementation in mid to late pregnancy

razor8

rangler1 wrote: »

Just read the Ts and Cs, boluses can be given 7 - 10 days before putting in the ram

i only bolus pre-lambing and drench pre mating, not hard to give them a cheap cobalt drench mid pregnancy

Sami23

Quick one on the Flystrike Control action for lowland flocks.
Is it for lambs or ewes or both that it has to be carried out on do ye know ?
Thanks

rangler1

Good meeting last night in Athlone, anyone there, a bit of point scoring against the department guys from the back of the crowd at the end, it's a good scheme, everyone should try to take avantage

Sami23

Sami23 wrote: »

Quick one on the Flystrike Control action for lowland flocks.
Is it for lambs or ewes or both that it has to be carried out on do ye know ?
Thanks

Was anything like this asked last night rangler1

rangler1

Sami23 wrote: »

Was anything like this asked last night rangler1

every task chosen has to be carried out across the whole flock

roosky

rangler1 wrote: »

every task chosen has to be carried out across the whole flock

the minerals is only to ewes and the fecal sampling is only lambs

Sami23

roosky wrote: »

rangler1 wrote: »

every task chosen has to be carried out across the whole flock

the minerals is only to ewes and the fecal sampling is only lambs

That's why I was asking if the flystrike control action was for ewes or lambs ?

Sami23

For the mineral supplementation post mating will the likes of Growvite or Thriver be acceptable for the scheme ?

rangler1

Sami23 wrote: »

For the mineral supplementation post mating will the likes of Growvite or Thriver be acceptable for the scheme ?

My own opinion is that the growvite only last few weeks, You're supposed to cover the ewes for 60 days.

Green farmer

Sami23 wrote: »

Quick one on the Flystrike Control action for lowland flocks.
Is it for lambs or ewes or both that it has to be carried out on do ye know ?
Thanks

Was reading the fly strike, says you've to use mechanical as well as chemicals, to remove daggs, wonder does that mean you'd have to have a clipping machine ? Or could you just use a hand clippers to remove the odd dagg ?

Sami23

Green farmer wrote: »

Sami23 wrote: »

Quick one on the Flystrike Control action for lowland flocks.
Is it for lambs or ewes or both that it has to be carried out on do ye know ?
Thanks

Was reading the fly strike, says you've to use mechanical as well as chemicals, to remove daggs, wonder does that mean you'd have to have a clipping machine ? Or could you just use a hand clippers to remove the odd dagg ?

Yes hand shears would be fine. You have to inspect them twice during summer and dagg dirty ones.