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Direct Debits from Non-Irish Accounts

Yggr of Asgard

Breaking this off the Number 26 tread because maybe it's time we list the known acceptance/non acceptance.

Refusing to accept non-irish accounts

Sky see http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057539002
GloHealth
Greenstar
Magnet Broadband (thanks to ceroc81)

Accepting non-irish accounts online

UPC
IDMobile

Accepting non-irish accounts via paper mandate

Energia (new)
Three
Zurich Insurance
AIG Insurance
Avantcard
Irish water (required verbal confirmation, thanks to ceroc81)

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nsa0bupkd3948x

I set up my BOI credit card direct debit with my N26 account without any issue online. Using their fantastically dogey looking Credit Card Servicing website.

Yggr of Asgard

McGaggs wrote: »

Three are still looking into getting direct debits from Bunq working.

I would suggest just for the fun of it, if you have some time and don't mind the aggravation you could complain to COMREG (giving that they regulate Three as telecoms provider).

The J Stands for Jay

McGaggs wrote: »

Three are now claiming they can only accept payment from Irish bank accounts. When I asked them how they can explain how I paid from my German N26 account by direct debit from January 2016 to October 2016, I got this response:
"I'm checking with the payments team why that happened."

Three are still looking into getting direct debits from Bunq working.

Bob24

murphaph wrote: »

I wonder can these issues be escalated to some EU body, if the national "regulator" fails to intervene?

Good question. In my experience the ECB is not too interested in SEPA infringement reports unrelated to banking institutions and will direct you back to the Irish CCPC for these.

But maybe if there was an EU consumer protection agency which overlooks the CCPC that would be an option?

murphaph

I wonder can these issues be escalated to some EU body, if the national "regulator" fails to intervene?

Bob24

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Maybe it's time for you to log a formal complaint and than raise it with the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (www.ccpc.ie) who is supposed to be responsible for ensuring that your rights are not violated.

Indeed. Good luck with that and keep us updated (my personal experience with the CCPC on a similar matter has been very poor, I am curious to know if I was unlucky).

Yggr of Asgard

Maybe it's time for you to log a formal complaint and than raise it with the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (www.ccpc.ie) who is supposed to be responsible for ensuring that your rights are not violated.

The J Stands for Jay

Three are now claiming they can only accept payment from Irish bank accounts. When I asked them how they can explain how I paid from my German N26 account by direct debit from January 2016 to October 2016, I got this response:
"I'm checking with the payments team why that happened."

Yggr of Asgard

McGaggs wrote: »

Yeah, bunq. I sent in a paper mandate, and they emailed saying the IBAN was wrong because it was too short. Lots of emails back and forth till they started ignoring me. Phoned then today and they started with the like that they can't do international bank accounts. Telling them I'd been using a German account for the last year got me 5 minutes on hold. Their technical back office is to get back to me later today.

Good luck, I hope you will get it sorted out.

Maybe you could use the bunq thread to tell us about your experience with bunq otherwise, seams there are not a lot of users of it yet.

The J Stands for Jay

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Bunq?

In any case, they will a paper mandate, have you tried going into a Store and have them process it there.

Yeah, bunq. I sent in a paper mandate, and they emailed saying the IBAN was wrong because it was too short. Lots of emails back and forth till they started ignoring me. Phoned then today and they started with the like that they can't do international bank accounts. Telling them I'd been using a German account for the last year got me 5 minutes on hold. Their technical back office is to get back to me later today.

Yggr of Asgard

McGaggs wrote: »

Three are now not able to have a direct debit from a Dutch bank account...

Bunq?

In any case, they will a paper mandate, have you tried going into a Store and have them process it there.

The J Stands for Jay

Three are now not able to have a direct debit from a Dutch bank account...

Yggr of Asgard

Sky is claims "we may be able to facilitate direct debits from European bank accounts outside of Ireland going forward." as per http://www.boards.ie/ttfpost/100955215

Lux23

I see, that is odd.

Bob24

JTMan wrote: »

@Bob24 - Did you get a response from the CPCC?

Unfortunately nope I didn't. And I have to admit all the blockers in the system (NTA refusing to comply and ignoring complaints, CCPC not answering) has discouraged me and I didn't bother calling (with no written track and no way to follow-up ... I don't expect much from them and am getting a bit tired of this).

Bob24

JTMan wrote: »

@Bob24 - Did you get a response from the CPCC?

Unfortunately nope I didn't. And I have to admit all the blockers in the system (NTA refusing to comply and ignoring complaints, CCPC not answering) have discouraged me and I didn't bother calling (with no written track and no way to follow-up on the phone call ... I don't expect much from them and am getting a bit tired of this).

JTMan

@Bob24 - Did you get a response from the CPCC?

Bob24

Lux23 wrote: »

I don't see how it could be, they don't enforce consumer protection legislation in the financial services, that would be the CBI.

See my previous post with the answer from the CBI (which basically said they only regulate financial institutions): http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99829990&postcount=81

"The Minister for Finance signed the ‘SEPA amendment’ Statutory Instrument (SI 204 of 2016) on 26 April 2016. One effect of the amendment SI is to appoint the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC) as the competent authority to deal with non-compliance with SEPA Regulation 260/2012 by parties other than financial services providers. As the Central Bank has no responsibility for the National Transport Authority, please contact the CCPC"

Lux23

I don't see how it could be, they don't enforce consumer protection legislation in the financial services, that would be the CBI.

Bob24

Lux23 wrote: »

This wouldn't be in the CCPC's remit.

Both the ECB and the CBI told me to talk to the CCPC ...

Lux23

This wouldn't be in the CCPC's remit.

JTMan

Bob24 wrote: »

Will look into the european ombudsman thanks ... have tried the ECB and the CIB with no luck (they both direct me to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, which is not getting back to me at all).

I suggest you phone the CCPC as a next step.

Bob24

Carawaystick wrote: »

have you tried the ecb, any of your mep's and the european ombudsman when the ecb tell you to go back to the icb?

Will look into the european ombudsman thanks ... have tried the ECB and the CIB with no luck (they both direct me to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, which is not getting back to me at all).

Carawaystick

have you tried the ecb, any of your mep's and the european ombudsman when the ecb tell you to go back to the icb?

Bob24

Bob24 wrote: »

To give quick update on Leap Cards, the NTA is consistently ignorign my emails. As expected the ECB deirected me to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission. I have raised a case with them and will post any feedback here (and since I had a good write-up of my experience with the NTA, I also sent it to the CBI in case they want to have a look from their end).

I have unfortunately kind of given with with this. The NTA is ignoring my emails and the CPC never got back to me with regards to the case I raised.

Feeling quite frustrated I had to say ...

Gerry1995

I'm trying to get Eir to accept Number 26 card but they say the Bank rejected the card ?? Number 26 say not them. I tried to give my Number26 IBAN details to them for a DD over the phone but the said "We are an Irish company and only accept Irish bank accounts" I kid you not. Ask eir... on Boards gave me a link to a form to download and submit, so I have just done that today, what's the betting the say the bank rejected the DD. I will update on any movement

BazzaDP

It's been mentioned a couple of times before on this thread but it's worth repeating:

Companies are NOT allowed to set up direct debits to non-Irish based accounts online or over the telephone. This MUST be set up using a paper mandate.

Technically SEPA doesn't allow for ANY online or telephone direct debit mandates, but Ireland has made an exception for their own countries accounts as they previously allowed this before under the DirectDebit+ scheme used before SEPA came along.

In Ireland this is covered by the document: http://www.bpfi.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/SEPA-Core-Direct-Debit-Scheme-for-Creditors-V-1.3.pdf which includes this line:

"Phone & Internet sign up can only be used for Irish Debtor sign up"

Strict instructions as to how these should be completed are included in the above document.

Banks in Ireland - that companies use to collect direct debits - also have this in their rules. For example BOI has this: "Creditors can only use Paperless Mandates for debtors accounts held in the Republic of Ireland. Any debtor with
an account held outside Republic of Ireland must sign a valid paper SEPA mandate." in their guidelines for companies: http://businessbanking.bankofireland.com/fs/doc/wysiwyg/1sepa-creditor-guide-oct-2013.pdf

Yes it goes against the spirit of SEPA to differentiate Irish and non-Irish accounts, yes the accounts will be put into the same system at the end of the day and yes companies don't like it any more than you as an individual do but, unfortunately, this is the law. Companies accepting non-Irish accounts over the telephone or Internet are not following SEPA properly any more than companies refusing to accept non-Irish accounts at all. Write to your TD or MEP if you want this changed.

The J Stands for Jay

Elessar wrote: »

No luck my end with three over the phone - they wouldn't accept a non irish account. They've sent on the paper mandate, but it's the same bloody system they will enter it on!
I've emailed laya - they still won't take non irish accounts online.

No idea what three are playing it. The direct debits are coming out of my account no problem for a few months now.

Laya were able to set up my DD over the phone, but only after I got in touch with the Central Bank. But when I tried to make a claim through their app last night, it refused to accept the IBAN they take their premium from as being valid to pay claims to..

Bob24

Bob24 wrote: »

To give quick update on Leap Cards, the NTA is consistently ignorign my emails. As expected the ECB deirected me to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission. I have raised a case with them and will post any feedback here (and since I had a good write-up of my experience with the NTA, I also sent it to the CBI in case they want to have a look from their end).

I still haven't heard back from the CCPC after almost 2 weeks (all I got is an automatic email to confirm my message was received).

For people who have contacted them before, what kind of turn-around time did you get from them?

And FYI the CBI doesn't seem to be interested in chasing these things from their own perspective anyone. The answer I received from them was:

"Thank you for contacting the Central Bank of Ireland.

The Minister for Finance signed the ‘SEPA amendment’ Statutory Instrument (SI 204 of 2016) on 26 April 2016. One effect of the amendment SI is to appoint the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC) as the competent authority to deal with non-compliance with SEPA Regulation 260/2012 by parties other than financial services providers. As the Central Bank has no responsibility for the National Transport Authority, please contact the CCPC on http://www.consumerhelp.ie/contact-form

I hope the above is of assistance."

Elessar

No luck my end with three over the phone - they wouldn't accept a non irish account. They've sent on the paper mandate, but it's the same bloody system they will enter it on!
I've emailed laya - they still won't take non irish accounts online.