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Vaulted Cellar, Mary Street, Dublin

Eugbug

Does anyone remember this cellar in Mary Street in the 80s? It was used as a shop for a short period and it was possible to walk down through it and come out at ground level at the back of Peats on the south side of Parnell Street (The original Peats retail, before they moved across the street and the premises became their wholesale). I think Penneys is built on the site now. Anyway I always wondered what this basement was. Was it a wine cellar/ basement of a really old pre Victorian or Georgian building?

P.S. Found this interesting link about cellars being filled in during Luas works

http://www.thejournal.ie/georgian-cellars-dublin-908479-May2013/[/URL]

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pedroeibar1

Lots of mythology in that post – there never was a ‘cellar’ leading anywhere at the back of Penneys, neither was the old Peats behind it on Parnell street, it was much further away..

The cellars in Dublin were coal stores, simple vaulted stores under a pavement with a round manhole cover into which coal was tipped. They led nowhere other than to the kitchen of a gentleman’s / merchant’s house. In Mary Street Galen Weston acquired a bankrupt dept. store named Todco, and renamed it Penneys – copying the US store of the same name. Prior to that it was called Todd Burns, occupying a building built c 1900 so much later than Georgian Dublin. Basements near there are below high water springs and the buildings with them need sumps with pumps in case of flooding.

Most of the Georgian buildings on higher ground had cellars but they were for coal and individual to each building. Back in the late 1940’s/50’s in Fitzwilliam Place there was a nightclub run by a homosexual British guy Dickie Wyman that was a hang-out for the artistic scene – Behan, Kavanagh, Cronin, Dunleavy,etc. Walls between some of the cellars were broken down and it became a mixture of squat and after-hours boozing joint, known as the 'catacombs'.. Most of them wrote about it – Cronin’s book Dead as Doornails is good on them/that era. RTE did a documentary on them.

Harcourt street cellars were infilled because they went out under the road and there were concerns that they would not support the load of the LUAS which would/could cause structural damage – the work took far far longer than promised and there was a successful legal action taken by the traders against the LUAS (RPA?) That is why the current LUAS project is keeping to the planned schedule.

Eugbug

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Lots of mythology in that post – there never was a ‘cellar’ leading anywhere at the back of Penneys, neither was the old Peats behind it on Parnell street, it was much further away..

Thanks for the reply. Peats had their retail premises located at three different points over the years. Firstly on the southside of Parnell street, then on the northside and finally on the southside at 25 Parnell street. The original location (pre mid 80s) was on a cul-de-sac on Parnell Street, maybe Chapel Lane? Possibly near the Noyeks timber factory?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noyeks_fire

Possibly this was another location, but was it 31 Parnell Street?

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/df/20/cc/df20ccd668413addab2c112d4405f7f5.jpg

Eugbug

Is it likely that pre-Georgian cellars exist from earlier structures, e.g. Dutch Billys or older?

AmberGold

In response to Eubug I do remember a below ground arcade type operation on Mary street, long narrow walkway with stalls akin to a market. There was even a fortune teller. Probably 35-38 years ago. Can't remember where it came out on the other side.

Eugbug

AmberGold wrote: »

In response to Eubug I do remember a below ground arcade type operation on Mary street, long narrow walkway with stalls akin to a market. There was even a fortune teller. Probably 35-38 years ago. Can't remember where it came out on the other side.

Yes, it would have been in the early 80s. As far as I recall, it extended from the front of the building to the back and came out either at ground level or there were steps up to ground level. The exit was near Peats in a cul-de-sac or narrow side street. Looking at the old OSI maps, this may have been Chapel Lane which led into the now non-existent Denmark Street (Ilac Centre built over it)

http://map.geohive.ie/mapviewer.html

Eugbug

This could be it:

http://www.dublincity.ie/image/libraries/335-mary-street?language=en

40 Mary Street is now Lifestyle Sports (at least in Street View imagery 2014) and backs out into Chapel Lane.

pedroeibar1

Eugbug wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Peats had their retail premises located at three different points over the years. Firstly on the southside of Parnell street, then on the northside and finally on the southside at 25 Parnell street. The original location (pre mid 80s) was on a cul-de-sac on Parnell Street, maybe Chapel Lane? Possibly near the Noyeks timber factory?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noyeks_fire

Possibly this was another location, but was it 31 Parnell Street?

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/df/20/cc/df20ccd668413addab2c112d4405f7f5.jpg

My memory of Peats of the 1970s had them behind roughly where the ILAC is situated and on the south side of the street. They might have had a separate premises for their wholesale operation, I don't recall. I have no recollection of an underground passageway with retail - I cannot imagine the Planners (even back then) allowing it, fire risk, evacuation, etc. The area behind Penneys was an open space and used as a car park - I do not recall houses on Jervis St but there were properties on Parnell street, including a rather run-down pub. I think that the 'deliveries' entrance for Penneys was on Chapel lane, but I'm not 100% sure. You need to consult the old Thoms directories (if in Dublin go to Pearse St. Library to) - they will show the Peats premises numbers and changes.

kildarejohn

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

My memory of Peats of the 1970s had them behind roughly where the ILAC is situated and on the south side of the street. They might have had a separate premises for their wholesale operation, I don't recall. es.

I am certain, as I was there on the day of the fire, that Noyeks was located directly opposite Peats. As Noyeks was on (east) corner of Kings Inn St., therefore Peats was on (west) corner of Denmark St.
Peats was quite extensive, and possibly ran all the way from Denmark St to Chapel Lane. So it is quite credible that cellars ran from Mary St. to Chapel Lane, but would have come out 25m or so behind Peats.

Eugbug

kildarejohn wrote: »

I am certain, as I was there on the day of the fire, that Noyeks was located directly opposite Peats. As Noyeks was on (east) corner of Kings Inn St., therefore Peats was on (west) corner of Denmark St.
Peats was quite extensive, and possibly ran all the way from Denmark St to Chapel Lane. So it is quite credible that cellars ran from Mary St. to Chapel Lane, but would have come out 25m or so behind Peats.

Just came across this:

https://stillslibrary.rte.ie/indexplus/db_images/22/2209/broadcast-visible-watermark/029_0fe04dda6e53574e2139cd726b5f07ca91a73755.jpg

In this photo, Peats is on a corner at no. 31, so that could be Chapel Lane or Denmark Street?:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/df/20/cc/df20ccd668413addab2c112d4405f7f5.jpg

Eugbug

I didn't realise Peat wholesale was still in business, anyway this link gives the history. It seems they started off at 25 Parnell Street (which is where the retail shop eventually ended up before closure) and then moved to Chapel Lane. It wasn't strictly wholesale, I remember buying parts there as a teenager in the 80s.

http://www.peatswholesale.ie/About-Peat-Wholesale.html

pedroeibar1

kildarejohn wrote: »

I am certain, as I was there on the day of the fire, that Noyeks was located directly opposite Peats. As Noyeks was on (east) corner of Kings Inn St., therefore Peats was on (west) corner of Denmark St.
Peats was quite extensive, and possibly ran all the way from Denmark St to Chapel Lane. So it is quite credible that cellars ran from Mary St. to Chapel Lane, but would have come out 25m or so behind Peats.

That would make sense, a tunnel to Parnell St did not, but I have NO recollection of it.. Also, the more I think about it the idea that Penneys Goods Inwards opened onto Chapel lane seems correct.

kildarejohn

Eugbug wrote: »

Just came across this:

https://stillslibrary.rte.ie/indexplus/db_images/22/2209/broadcast-visible-watermark/029_0fe04dda6e53574e2139cd726b5f07ca91a73755.jpg

In this photo, Peats is on a corner at no. 31, so that could be Chapel Lane or Denmark Street?:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...2d4405f7f5.jpg

the street to left in photo would be Denmark St, on right is Parnell St.