A Little Pony wrote: » Would you not?
Fratton Fred wrote: » who is differentiating?
FrancieBrady wrote: » Finucane was Irish and was not drawing any attention to himself other than doing his job. McWhirter involved himself in a very public way, first of all (if I remember correctly) suggesting that all Irish register at police stations and then by offering a bounty. He knew the publicity that would get and no doubt knew he was very publically taking a side.
steddyeddy wrote: » The British
Fratton Fred wrote: » all 60 million of them?
Fratton Fred wrote: » Did every one that publicly took one side or the other deserve to die?
steddyeddy wrote: » The British governments did Fred. Loyalist terrorists were aided and weren't even made illegal until the conflict was nearly over.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Fratton Fred wrote: » Did every one that publicly took one side or the other deserve to die? Nobody deserved to die Fred. But they did, on all sides.
A Little Pony wrote: » You already basically condoned that TV guys death.
steddyeddy wrote: » I'm not against violence if it's done for legitimate reasons but I don't see how you can differentiate between the actions of the security forces in Northern Ireland (RUC, army) and the IRA. Both were involved in making, planning or carrying out bombings, killing innocent people and using violence to further their aims. You can only differentiate by the political aims.
LordSutch wrote: » steddyeddy wrote: » I'm not against violence if it's done for legitimate reasons but I don't see how you can differentiate between the actions of the security forces in Northern Ireland (RUC, army) and the IRA. Both were involved in making, planning or carrying out bombings, killing innocent people and using violence to further their aims. You can only differentiate by the political aims. That's right steddy, every morning before breafast the PIRA, INLA, British Army, the RUC, UFF, and the UVF all planned the days atrocities in whatever form they might take! (Bus bombs, car bombs, proxy bombs, Knee cappings, shooting off duty policemen, land mines etc) each trying to outdo each other in making the biggest & best bombs to kill & maim as many people as possible, sure everybody knows that you couldn't differentiate their actions. The Britsh Army were the same as the PIRA/INLA in that they were all trying (on a daily basis) to murder & kill as many as possible. not The British Army & the RUC were only out to kill Nationalists/Catholics.not
LordSutch wrote: » The Britsh Army were the same as the PIRA/INLA in that they were all trying (on a daily basis) to murder & kill as many as possible. not The British Army & the RUC were only out to kill Nationalists/Catholics.not
tomwaterford wrote: » The simple fact of warnings given to bombs etc by the IRA makes your argument at best an ill informed rant when you say they went out to kill as many as possible
LordSutch wrote: » The British Army & the RUC were only out to kill Nationalists/Catholics.not
FrancieBrady wrote: » Do you think the Irish recruits felt guilty about that or rather, should they have?
LordSutch wrote: » From Omagh, to Enniskillen, to Bloody Friday, to The Fish Shop > Obviously the warnings wearn't good enough (seeing as so many people were blown to bits)! Thanks to the Army & the Police the death toll during the Troubles was much smaller than if the IRA/UFF/INLA/UVF etc had been unfettered in their murderous aims.
tomwaterford wrote: » You do know the that some bent police supplied loyalists with circa 80% of there intelligence and they killed circa 1000 people of which 90% were innocent
LordSutch wrote: » Look again, closely
Fratton Fred wrote: » are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? It isn't nationality, it is citizenship and residency. I haven't lived in the UK for ten years, so even though I am a British national, I couldn't become a pilot unless I moved back to the UK and resided there for five years or more, without spending more than 28 days abroad. Conversely, an Irish national who has lived in the UK for the past five years, could potentially sign up tomorrow.A pilot is effectively given total control of some of the most sophisticated and advanced weaponry on the planet. This control is only given to someone you can trust, regardless of their nationality, so there are very rigorous back ground checks. That's all this is about, it has nothing to do with trusting British citizens more than any one else.
steddyeddy wrote: » I don't see how you can differentiate between the actions of the security forces in Northern Ireland (RUC, army) and the IRA. Both were involved in making, planning or carrying out bombings, killing innocent people and using violence to further their aims.
FrancieBrady wrote: » What?
LordSutch wrote: » My fault, the not in 851 is probably too faded (sorry). In other words, post 851 is being facetious or sarcastic.
maryishere wrote: » Correct. Plus the fact it costs (I think) over a million pounds to train a RAF fighter pilot fully...the RAF is quite entitled -seeing as it has an ample supply of applicants - to only want to train those who have shown a commitment to the UK by living there for 5 years first. It dos not want to invest a lot of time, effort and money training foreign pilots only for them to leave once their training is complete, for whatever reason (to join other air forces or because they are homesick or whatever). I know one Irish fellow who was so keen to join the RAF he went north to uni in N. Ireland and worked for a year or 2 first before joining them. I do not know if the RAF does background checks on applicants (like the psni would do) but if a person lived in the UK for 5 years, they would find it easier to check his / her suitability. The vast majority of the 300,000 people in the British Army who served in N. Ireland, and the many tens of thousands of policemen / women, were not involved in making, planning or carrying out bombings, killing innocent people and using violence to further their aims. The vast majority of bombings was carried out by a relatively small number of Republicans ( PIRA / INLA ). 99% of property that was damaged was damaged by extremist Republicans. You cannot tar all the hundreds of thousands of people in the security forces with the same brush just because there was a few bad apples in it.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Then they shored up that sectarian state let until the IRA ended it .
FrancieBrady wrote: » The question is how did Irish recruits justify their membership of an army sent to put down Irish people.
maryishere wrote: » lol in what way was it sectarian until the IRA ended it? In the 80's and 90's there was plenty of anti-discrimination legislation and the real sectarianism I saw came from the para-militaries, which the security forces sought to detain, convict and jail, which they did to both sides.
LordSutch wrote: » Adjusted that for ya^ Bent police, a few crooked bent bad apples among a lot of very good men who went on duty to chase criminals, hunt rapists, tend to car crashes, catch robbers etc etc etc. They could have done without being targets for the PIRA and their kind. A lot of very good policemen were murdered during the troubles.
maryishere wrote: » The 300,000 members of the British Army saved thousands of Irish people, as they kept the PIRA / INLA / UVF etc from getting totally out of hand, before they were defeated / had their arms and explosives put beyond use.
