Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I didn't say Russell was a nazi, but he colluded with them to invade Ireland. What he was prepared to offer up in support of that, no one knows.

Britain's main priority was to stop Hitler and the nazi regime.

Jesus, one minute Britain is getting grief for not stopping in when he went in the Rhine, now the reasons why they stepped in are being questioned.

You can see why this is a it frustrating, can't you?

please show me where this has happened?

the kids were wwell looked after (which kind of goes against the anti semetic rubbish you wrote earlier. Yeah, the parets should have been able to come as well, but would you have preferred 10,000 jews of all ages, of 10,000 jewish children? I would give up my place on the train if I thought it would save a child.

ok. fine. But there was nothing noble about staying out of the fight. Thankfully the US didn't adopt the same attitude.

The regime was in conflict with the european way of life. Someone had to stop him.

Russell statue got attacked because he is seen as a Nazi, not because of some notion that he is a traitor (which you alleged) to this country. It is a tiny tiny group of cranks who are nose out of joint about the Statue.

What was he prepared to offer,no one knows? Never stops ye lot from speculation. An attack on Britain means diverting resources in NI rather than mainland Europe.

The only reason Britain is getting grief ,here,is due to the rubbish that you are coming out with. No one has an issue why Britain went to war,their interests were at risk. But don't come here and pretend that it was some crusade

You are denying that the jews did not experience anti semitism and anti german sentiment when they arrived? Bless.

Justification for seperating kids from their family ? Bring the parents ,that is what family reunification under refugee law does.

Britain? Noble ? Ha ha ,leave it out - alas again,no issue with Britain going to war to protect their interests

LordSutch wrote: »

I think Éire refers to the Republic of Ireland, as opposed to the whole island of Ireland.
So I guess Éire does have its uses when differentiating between the island of, and ther ROI.

The republic came after ww2.

Call Germany Duestchland when speaking English ?

maryishere

Lt Dan wrote: »

you referred to this country as Eire.

I referred to the country as Ireland , and I quoted the American newspaper who referred to it as Eire. Remember Eire was also painted in massive huge letter, by ourselves, on the whole sides of our ships etc. Hardly fair of you to complain in 2017 than an American newspaper referred to this country as Eire in the nineteen forties.

We had an opportunity in 1944 / 1945 to help in a small token way to help the Allies / thank them in a small way for saving us from Nazism, by offering the US/ Canadians / British the use of an airport or port, saving lives in the Atlantic. Other countries, once neutral, had seen the evils of Nazism. No wonder DeValera could only hang his head in shame when the horrors of the extermination camps was pointed out to him.

Belgium declared its neutrality at the outbreak of war, but joined the Allies after Nazis marched through the country as part of its invasion of France in 1940.

Brazil maintained its neutrality until 1942, when it sided with the Allies. In 1944 Brazil became the only Latin American nation to send troops to Europe when it dispatched the 25,000 strong Brazilian Expeditionary Force to fight on the continent.

The Netherlands declared its neutrality at the start of the conflict in 1939, but was invaded by the Nazis the following year in the face of fierce resistance. The Dutch joined the Allies and their surviving naval and armed forces joined in the defence of East Asia. Dutch troops fought alongside the Allies in landmark struggles including the Battle of Britain.

Most of the world despised Hitler and Nazism ( inc most Germans nowadays) and yet you still condone DeValera offering his condolences on the death of Hitler.

maryishere

Lt Dan wrote: »

You are denying that the jews did not experience anti semitism and anti german sentiment when they arrived?

The was a pogrom against Jews in Limerick. in 1943, newly elected independent TD Oliver J. Flanagan advocated "routing the Jews out of the country" in the Dail. No surprise the amount of Jews in Ireland declined dramitically in the 20th century. At least the UK did allow in some Jewish refugees.

maryishere wrote: »

The was a pogrom against Jews in Limerick. in 1943, newly elected independent TD Oliver J. Flanagan advocated "routing the Jews out of the country" in the Dail. No surprise the amount of Jews in Ireland declined dramitically in the 20th century. At least the UK did allow in some Jewish refugees.

Effegies of Chamberlain were burned in Dublin too. Chaotic times and Dev managed them fairly magnificently.
I and many others(the majority who have never sought to revoke our neutrality) are proud of that.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Chaotic times

To Dev it was an Emergency but to the rest of the world a World War.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dev managed them fairly magnificently.

Yeah, while other English speaking nations, and much of the free world fought Hitler we complained about rationing, and offered condolences on Hitlers death after seeing the Extermination camps revealed to the world. Magnificent management - not ...hence why DeValera was ridiculed by the worlds press.

100,000 Irish people volunteered for the British armed forces. Many more went to work in munitions factories, or work as nurses etc. Only a handful of Irish people went to co-operate with the Nazis, and they were mostly extremist Republicans / IRA. Says it all.

I wonder how many Americans, Canadians etc would have been saved if DeValera had not his hatred of the British?

maryishere wrote: »

To Dev it was an Emergency but to the rest of the world a World War.

Yeah, while other English speaking nations, and much of the free world fought Hitler we complained about rationing, and offered condolences on Hitlers death after seeing the Extermination camps revealed to the world. Magnificent management - not ...hence why DeValera was ridiculed by the worlds press.

100,000 Irish people volunteered for the British armed forces. Many more went to work in munitions factories, or work as nurses etc. Only a handful of Irish people went to co-operate with the Nazis, and they were mostly extremist Republicans / IRA. Says it all.

I wonder how many Americans, Canadians etc would have been saved if DeValera had not his hatred of the British?

IMO he saved countless Irish lives and probably the country. Just what Churchill was trying to do. You play the cards as they are dealt. I don't think he would be over bothered by what a British sycophant would think in 2017 even if she had digested all the facts rationally.

feargale

maryishere wrote: »

The was a pogrom against Jews in Limerick. in 1943, newly elected independent TD Oliver J. Flanagan advocated "routing the Jews out of the country" in the Dail. No surprise the amount of Jews in Ireland declined dramitically in the 20th century. At least the UK did allow in some Jewish refugees.

The Limerick affair was condemned by many in Ireland, among them the influential Standish O'Grady in his paper All Ireland Review, depicting Jews and Irish as "brothers in a common struggle", though using language differentiating between the two. The Land Leaguer Michael Davitt (author of The True Story of Anti-Semitic Persecutions in Russia), in the Freeman's Journal, attacked those who had participated in the riots and visited homes of Jewish victims in Limerick.

Father Creagh was moved by his superiors initially to Belfast and then to an island in the Pacific Ocean. Joe Briscoe, son of Robert Briscoe, the Dublin Jewish politician, describes the Limerick episode as “an aberration in an otherwise almost perfect history of Ireland and its treatment of the Jews”.

For every Flanagan there was a multitude of Moseleys in Britain. Don't forget the Battle of Cable Street 1936.

True, Ireland's part in rescuing Jews from Nazi Germany was far from honourable, and not enhanced by the obnoxious Mr. Bewley in Berlin, but pointing the finger at nations in respect of 20th century anti-Semitism is a dangerous exercise. World Jewry has exonerated just two European nations in relation to WW2 events and Britain is not one of them.

Number of Jews in Ireland:
1901 - 3770
It actually peaked at 5,500 after WWII, then declined from about 1970, mainly because its small size made it difficult for young Jews to find Jewish marriage partners causing many to emigrate to UK, USA and Israel. The number is growing again.

I have nothing to say here about Irishmen joining the British army, but a bit of balance around here wouldn't go astray.

P.S. We will never hear the end of Dev's condolences to Hempel. FFS what was in it for him or for Ireland since Germany was defeated? Admit it: it was an act of courtesy to Hempel, no more. It contrasts with the states who carefully sniffed the wind before taking sides.

A Little Pony wrote: »

What are you on about? She clearly had the better argument backed up by historical facts.

Ha ha ha ha .

"Facts" which she failed to understand. Several posters have addressed her on those "facts".

One of the latest examples was how she taught that Ireland should have opened up it's ports in 1945 despite

(a) the need for them was not a priority as the sea and air battle had been won,
(b) the US were in the war
(c) Northern Ireland Ports were strategically suitable

Yeah, Facts:D

maryishere wrote: »

Actually if it had access to Irish ports / airports, the Mid-Atlantic Gap ( a geographical term attributed to an undefended area beyond the reach of land-based RAF Coastal Command antisubmarine (A/S) aircraft during the Battle of the Atlantic in the Second World War ) would have been reduced in size considerably, saving countless British / Canadian / American and Irish lives, given there were Irishmen on many of those ships.

1945 was time for us to thank the Allied powers for saving us from Nazism, and make some small contribution on an official basis. In 1945 Germany was not in a position to strike against Ireland. Other English speaking countries in the world made valuable contributions towards defeating Nazism, instead of sending condolences on Hitlers death.

It is not all about Britain you know. The world did not revolve around Britain.

Save us for what? Nazi's did not touch the South (intentionally) .. but did bomb Belfast and Mainland UK................. there is a lot to be said about German Engineering and economics ..:D. Sure whats another dictatorial overlord if we grace them with loyalty and enthusiasm. (Sure didn't we love our own overlords, The Church)

Ireland provided key weather forecast reports that forced the D Day landing to postpone for a more suitable day. Had they gone the day originally planned there would have been major problems. Ireland also ignored the fact that British RAF men ignored our airspace, with many being driven up to the border again. We did the UK a favour by not getting involved and thus requiring Britain to open up another defence front in the South.

Moreover, another Civil War would have been guaranteed if British Soldiers sent foot in the South. What you ignore is two facts (a) The country was still decisive over the Civil War, ironically former enemies from Civil War got together and for the first time in 20 years the South was united (b) The IRA were still a major threat the the South. De Valera jailed and hung many men. The IRA also put Ireland at serious risk of invasion by bombing British Cities just before the Battle of Britain commenced. There was no way Southerners were going to tolerate the British back in Ireland even if they have Ireland loads of money and promised to leave after the war.

Other English Speaking countries did not have the problems with Britain that Ireland had. They were happy with Britain, big difference. What went on in Europe was not our problem and we realized that we would be wiped out if we got involved. All the South could offer was their men, many of few did volunteer to go to Europe. Our people saw enough carnage during World War 1 (not to mention the carnage at home). Even Ulster boys were not as enthusiastic in joining up in World War 2. By all means many did, and this time not by conscription (which they had been happy to serve anyway in WW1 regardless of conscription). By all means Unionists Politicians like Craig were angered that conscription did not come to NI in WW2 for obvious reasons (Nationalists) (Unionists wanted to be treated the same as the mainland and they wanted to prove their loyalty again) More Unionists stayed at home in WW2 (for understandable reasons) and worked in the war factories, which was a major benefit to the economy in the North.

Lt Dan wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

What are you on about? She clearly had the better argument backed up by historical facts.

Ha ha ha ha .

"Facts" which she failed to understand. Several posters have addressed her on those "facts".

One of the latest examples was how she taught that Ireland should have opened up it's ports in 1945 despite

(a) the need for them was not a priority as the sea and air battle had been won,
(b) the US were in the war
(c) Northern Ireland Ports were strategically suitable

Yeah, Facts:D

The fact is you didn't help in the Allie war effort by joining up with Britain to defeat Nazi Germany. That is a great shame on the Irish Republic and you should just accept that historical reality. De Valera was an absolute wally and his letter shamed the Irish people.

maryishere wrote: »

The was a pogrom against Jews in Limerick. in 1943, newly elected independent TD Oliver J. Flanagan advocated "routing the Jews out of the country" in the Dail. No surprise the amount of Jews in Ireland declined dramitically in the 20th century. At least the UK did allow in some Jewish refugees.

THe question referred to Britain. Ireland is not Britain. I never once suggested or implied that everything was plain sailing in Ireland with the Jewish community. For once, how about dealing with what I actually had said and asked? I hope that would not be too much trouble for your good self. Jewish people experienced anti antisemitism (like some did before the War) and Anti German sentiment (slightly understandable) by some British people during the war. Britain was not too keen on taking them in. Alas , they did take people in and obviously, the experience was not enough to force some Jewish groups to leave Britain after the war. Hardly going to get credit for letting in Jewish Children without their parents ?

As for your statement; Flanagan said a lot of crazy stuff. Good to see that his grandson (or son?) Charlie is a friend to the Jewish people. Anyway, Lunny Oliver even stated in Dáil Éireann that the Jews killed baby Jesus :rolleyes: (and implied that they deserve what they get)

The "pogrom" was never supported by the government or even by the majority of people in Ireland.

Fearagle, today at 01:40 has addressed your point with more detail. Alas, I am sure your admirer will see what are and are not "facts"

Just so you do not ignore what Fearagle said, which is reasonably balanced, I shall reproduce what he said

"The Limerick affair was condemned by many in Ireland, among them the influential Standish O'Grady in his paper All Ireland Review, depicting Jews and Irish as "brothers in a common struggle", though using language differentiating between the two. The Land Leaguer Michael Davitt (author of The True Story of Anti-Semitic Persecutions in Russia), in the Freeman's Journal, attacked those who had participated in the riots and visited homes of Jewish victims in Limerick.

Father Creagh was moved by his superiors initially to Belfast and then to an island in the Pacific Ocean. Joe Briscoe, son of Robert Briscoe, the Dublin Jewish politician, describes the Limerick episode as “an aberration in an otherwise almost perfect history of Ireland and its treatment of the Jews”.

For every Flanagan there was a multitude of Moseleys in Britain. Don't forget the Battle of Cable Street 1936.

True, Ireland's part in rescuing Jews from Nazi Germany was far from honourable, and not enhanced by the obnoxious Mr. Bewley in Berlin, but pointing the finger at nations in respect of 20th century anti-Semitism is a dangerous exercise. World Jewry has exonerated just two European nations in relation to WW2 events and Britain is not one of them.

Number of Jews in Ireland:
1901 - 3770
It actually peaked at 5,500 after WWII, then declined from about 1970, mainly because its small size made it difficult for young Jews to find Jewish marriage partners causing many to emigrate to UK, USA and Israel. The number is growing again.

I have nothing to say here about Irishmen joining the British army, but a bit of balance around here wouldn't go astray.

P.S. We will never hear the end of Dev's condolences to Hempel. FFS what was in it for him or for Ireland since Germany was defeated? Admit it: it was an act of courtesy to Hempel, no more. It contrasts with the states who carefully sniffed the wind before taking sides."

A Little Pony wrote: »

The fact is you didn't help in the Allie war effort by joining up with Britain to defeat Nazi Germany. That is a great shame on the Irish Republic and you should just accept that historical reality. De Valera was an absolute wally and his letter shamed the Irish people.

'Shamed'?

How long did Dev last in Irish politics after 45 again?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The fact is you didn't help in the Allie war effort by joining up with Britain to defeat Nazi Germany. That is a great shame on the Irish Republic and you should just accept that historical reality. De Valera was an absolute wally and his letter shamed the Irish people.

'Shamed'?

How long did Dev last in Irish politics after 45 again?

The Catholic Church had its grip on the Irish state. Dev was prepared to turn a blind eye to rape of children, so they kept him in power.

A Little Pony wrote: »

The fact is you didn't help in the Allie war effort by joining up with Britain to defeat Nazi Germany. That is a great shame on the Irish Republic and you should just accept that historical reality. De Valera was an absolute wally and his letter shamed the Irish people.

"You" ?I was not even born. My parents were not even born. You were not born

Pray , tell thee, please disclose what you and Fratton's Fred's folks did during the war? Especially your family. We know Fratton is British so, one can assume he had family involved in both Wars. Yours? (I am not sure what Nationality you are)

The war had nothing to do with us. It was a carry over from World War 1. No shame in staying out of the war. The Swiss and Swedes actually offered Germans help and profited in providing war material and trade. Where is their shame?

Clearly, the Irish have better and stronger back bone. I might be wrong, but maybe we should all do a poll to see if the Irish today feel shame? Never ceases to amuse me how British and Americans and their supporters could even dare try and put a guilt trip on other groups

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Catholic Church had its grip on the Irish state. Dev was prepared to turn a blind eye to rape of children, so they kept him in power.

:D:D:D

maryishere wrote: »

I referred to the country as Ireland , and I quoted the American newspaper who referred to it as Eire. Remember Eire was also painted in massive huge letter, by ourselves, on the whole sides of our ships etc. Hardly fair of you to complain in 2017 than an American newspaper referred to this country as Eire in the nineteen forties.

We had an opportunity in 1944 / 1945 to help in a small token way to help the Allies / thank them in a small way for saving us from Nazism, by offering the US/ Canadians / British the use of an airport or port, saving lives in the Atlantic. Other countries, once neutral, had seen the evils of Nazism. No wonder DeValera could only hang his head in shame when the horrors of the extermination camps was pointed out to him.

Belgium declared its neutrality at the outbreak of war, but joined the Allies after Nazis marched through the country as part of its invasion of France in 1940.

Brazil maintained its neutrality until 1942, when it sided with the Allies. In 1944 Brazil became the only Latin American nation to send troops to Europe when it dispatched the 25,000 strong Brazilian Expeditionary Force to fight on the continent.

The Netherlands declared its neutrality at the start of the conflict in 1939, but was invaded by the Nazis the following year in the face of fierce resistance. The Dutch joined the Allies and their surviving naval and armed forces joined in the defence of East Asia. Dutch troops fought alongside the Allies in landmark struggles including the Battle of Britain.

Most of the world despised Hitler and Nazism ( inc most Germans nowadays) and yet you still condone DeValera offering his condolences on the death of Hitler.

It is bad enough that you highlighted your ignorance about David Gray and most other matters here,. but now , once again failing to following what was said.. this time, your own bloody posts.

Let everyone else see for themselves . At 08-01-2017, 17:26, post #448
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057689036&page=30

Mary says that she , herself never referred to Ireland as Éire , when speaking in the English language.

However, prior to citing the Herald and other sources , she made a comment, with NO quotation marks - thus her own words (See the link to the post above , for the lay out) She said

But neutral countries in Europe such as Switzerland and Sweden did not send condolences on the death of Hitler.Eire was ridiculed from across the Atlantic. Paperers like the Herald Tribune entitled its editorial ‘Neutrality gone mad’ and commented:

(then the extract from the Herald, which refers to Éire)

So you did not refer to this country as Éire? Your post suggests otherwise, Luv. Again, read what is said, not what you think.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057689036&page=30

Now the deal with the rest of the rubbish.

"Remember Eire was also painted in massive huge letter, by ourselves, on the whole sides of our ships etc. Hardly fair of you to complain in 2017 than an American newspaper referred to this country as Eire in the nineteen forties."

1. Irish the the official language of this country.

2. There is a MAJOR difference in painting "Éire" on a ship or land (to remind pilots of where they are flying over) and on a stamp , and speaking and writing in the English language. Suffice to say, most people would understand that. Germany would have done the same. Did the US or UK refer to that country as "Deutschland" when speaking and writing in the English Language (in polite company) No!

3. There was no need to refer to 2017. "ÉIRE" has always been the wrong thing to say or write when speaking in the English language. The country is and always was called Ireland. There is a reason by the British (whom the Americans copied) insisted on using such a term. This has gone over your head, I am afraid.

Comparisons with Neutral Countries. FFS

Belgium had no choice but to take sides, Germany was going to and did invade. Likewise the Netherlands. You are stretching things with Brazil, but suffice to say, they had Nazi Argentina to concern themselves with

Oh , look, despite referring to them earlier, you have nothing to say about neutral Switzerland and Sweden who actually both profited from the Nazis

maryishere wrote: »

To Dev it was an Emergency but to the rest of the world a World War.

Yeah, while other English speaking nations, and much of the free world fought Hitler we complained about rationing, and offered condolences on Hitlers death after seeing the Extermination camps revealed to the world. Magnificent management - not ...hence why DeValera was ridiculed by the worlds press.

100,000 Irish people volunteered for the British armed forces. Many more went to work in munitions factories, or work as nurses etc. Only a handful of Irish people went to co-operate with the Nazis, and they were mostly extremist Republicans / IRA. Says it all.

I wonder how many Americans, Canadians etc would have been saved if DeValera had not his hatred of the British?

Funny the "ridicule" did not last long. Churchill became friendly with his old foe in the 1950s. Many foreign dignitaries attended his funeral. JFK was happy to meet the founding father, even Mohammad Ali wanted to meet him (Dev declined that one) People got over it reasonably quick. American gave us some Marshall Plan

Seems that the only people still hung up about this are people like you and a few British people who never got over the fact that we broke from the UK/Empire/Commonwealth

"Only a handful of Irish people went to co-operate with the Nazis, and they were mostly extremist Republicans / IRA. Says it all. "

What does it say? No evidence was found that they were Nazi lovers. Just following the old Fenian Way "My enemy's enemy , is my friend... and they wanted to use the Nazis. Most plans to "collude" failed.

"Extremist Republicans/IRA". ... Never heard of moderate IRA or Republicans.

You talk utter rubbish. How are you not ashamed?

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Catholic Church had its grip on the Irish state. Dev was prepared to turn a blind eye to rape of children, so they kept him in power.

And, you are going to provide actual proof , citations , supporting your allegation that Eamon De Valera knew of or was suspicious of criminal activities amongst the Hierarchy but refused to deal with it?

Fratton Fred

Lt Dan wrote: »

please disclose what you and Fratton's Fred's folks did during the war?

err, not much different to every other person in Britain.

One set of grandparents in the navy, one a Wren, one a Gunner (T) on HMS Forester for most of the war. The other set, one was a nurse, the other worked in Portsmouth Dockyard.

Their siblings were a mix, two army, three navy and one who died when his bomber was shot down over Belgium.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

err, not much different to every other person in Britain.

One set of grandparents in the navy, one a Wren, one a Gunner (T) on HMS Forester for most of the war. The other set, one was a nurse, the other worked in Portsmouth Dockyard.

Their siblings were a mix, two army, three navy and one who died when his bomber was shot down over Belgium.

I should not really have referred to you as I know that you are British. I believe that you mentioned this before. If you note , I had assumed that your family was involved. I was really asking the other poster. Mary can contribute too.

Lt Dan wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Catholic Church had its grip on the Irish state. Dev was prepared to turn a blind eye to rape of children, so they kept him in power.

And, you are going to provide actual proof , citations , supporting your allegation that Eamon De Valera knew of or was suspicious of criminal activities amongst the Hierarchy but refused to deal with it?

Do you think he was stupid or something? Of course he knew the countries children was being taken advantage of. See the laundries.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Do you think he was stupid or something? Of course he knew the countries children was being taken advantage of. See the laundries.

We can't get him with the facts, so we will switch to innuendo.

Johnboner

Of course people would want to join british army, at least they have proper equipment not the equipment from world war 2. Lol just look at our ''jets''

A Little Pony wrote: »

Do you think he was stupid or something? Of course he knew the countries children was being taken advantage of. See the laundries.

One more time, cite actual evidence please.

Legally, as abhorrent as it was, there was nothing criminal in sending women to the laundries . Hell some families volunteered their female family member to the camps

So, you gotta provide evidence

Johnboner wrote: »

Of course people would want to join british army, at least they have proper equipment not the equipment from world war 2. Lol just look at our ''jets''

We do not need "jets", we are not war mongers . Last I checked, the Irish lads are equipped with appropriate UN approved equipment,

Lt Dan wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Do you think he was stupid or something? Of course he knew the countries children was being taken advantage of. See the laundries.

One more time, cite actual evidence please.

Legally, as abhorrent as it was, there was nothing criminal in sending women to the laundries . Hell some families volunteered their female family member to the camps

So, you gotta provide evidence

Sending children to laundry camps which are controlled by the church. Recipe for disaster. All on him.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sending children to laundry camps which are controlled by the church. Recipe for disaster. All on him.

A disaster that happened right around the world. Look what happened young footballers going to clubs in Britain or to children going to the BBC and the duty of care they should have had towards their employees.

Not a great deal of awareness. But let's lay it all at the door of one man, shall we? Because we cannot prove what we are saying about his war time activity with actual facts. And let's throw a conspiracy theory in there too that he was kept in power by a church.

Fabulous.

Fratton Fred

Lt Dan wrote: »

We do not need "jets", we are not war mongers . Last I checked, the Irish lads are equipped with appropriate UN approved equipment,

Then why have an air Corp at all?