Louise O Neill on rape culture.

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Undoomed have made a video on Blindboy BC's comments on feminism, with a distinct call out to 'the rape culture documentary that RTE showed' aka LON's flawed so-called 'documentary'.

Don't know who the guy is, but he has an irish accent.

(Apologies, Milo does feature, as does Stefan Molyneux, but overall it's not an abhorrent video).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DURLKPOHKHU

It's worth remembering that the likes of Molyneux are shady individuals. He seems to have some serious issues with women, and much like his third wave opposites, he views the world only through the prism of his ideology- and in his case it is always women's fault no matter what. He has come out with some zany comments like blaming women for wars, drug abuse, STDs and promiscuity. He is no different, and in many ways a good deal worse, than the third wave. Plus, he also seems to have a bizarre side gig where he advocates people leaving their families on his radio show. His wife (a psychologist) even got in on the act and was reprimanded accordingly by a disciplinary panel for professional misconduct. By all accounts, Molyneux is a quite a nasty piece of work.

As regards the video, I have a few issues with it. Firstly, I think it fell into the same form regressive thinking that it tries to rally against. Mainly, feminism is NOT the cause of mens suicide or mental health issues. Or, at least I do not believe it is. Countries that are still largely patriarchal and have little in the way of feminist movements still have much higher cases of suicide than we do. The attempt in the video to apportion to blame towards feminism is just as zany as Blindboy's attempt to shoehorn in feminism in as a some kind of miracle cure. Both fall victim to believing that their particular worldview has all the answers, when this is just not the case at all. Neither are even close.

There is something else at play when it comes to high male suicide rates, and I have no idea what it is. But, trying to blame it on feminism (as in the video) is a bit silly.

Secondly, I note there was a shoehorning in of the 'traditional family' mantra in there (not prevalent, but it was there) as if to some way imply that lack of a father figure and being raised by a single mother was the cause behind the crimes that those men committed. Once again, it seems to be ever so slightly shoehorning in the idea that it is really women who are at fault for those crimes. Well, that is total and utter BS.

You see what I mean? While the video purports to be objective, in reality it used the exact same third wave tactics of blaming men - switched it around - and in this case the implication was that everything was all the fault of women.

So, while the video might not appear "abhorrent" at first glance, dig a bit into it and you will find it does have a nasty underbelly.

Widdershins wrote: »

Listen to the way he says ''littered'' right at the start..I think that's some kind of Dublerican accent

Aye, definitely not a Kerryman, that's for sure!

Goya

Intriguing the way those who hate men/women can sometimes have a partner of the opposite sex. The lack of self awareness is pretty remarkable.

I'd worry what such women do to their sons minds.

Flimpson wrote: »

Intriguing the way those who hate men/women can sometimes have a partner of the opposite sex. The lack of self awareness is pretty remarkable.

It's completely crazy, tbh. And you hear so many feminists who condemn males, while raising a young son. Or a recent feminist who, while pregnant, found herself 'feeling sick and nauseated at the thoughts of raising a male son'.
Yes, her own baby caused a triggered reaction.

As for Molyneaux, yeah, I wasn't familiar with that particular lunacy. Sadly, like many so-called anti-feminists, they often come at feminism itsself with the same level of vitriol and anger that the neo-feminists challenge them with.
Milo recently 'shamed' a trans student at one of his speeches-while I personally think this particular trans individual was rather 'sensitive' (some of her other complaints had been rather....silly, to put it mildly) I don't agree with how Milo went about 'shaming' her. Also don't agree with how she wrote to her college president, with a rather grammatical and spelling error riddled email.

I know there have been many instances where killers came from dysfunctional and broken homes...but there is often a massive other element to their story besides that.

mzungu wrote: »

Aye, definitely not a Kerryman, that's for sure!

As someone from Kerry, yeah pretty obvious. IT's pretty D4 mixed with 'Ameri-cannnnn'.

Sort of reminds me of those terrible 'country' singers who would turn up on Live at three,with a 'Texas by way of Dublin' country singing accent.

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

As someone from Kerry, yeah pretty obvious. IT's pretty D4 mixed with 'Ameri-cannnnn'.

Sort of reminds me of those terrible 'country' singers who would turn up on Live at three,with a 'Texas by way of Dublin' country singing accent.

Now there's a blast from the past!

An interesting article that kind of loosely ties in with the LON style of Intersectional Feminism and illiberal 'liberalism' and particularly the No Platfrom-ing, censorious, virtue-signalling and preachy behaviour, and Identity Politics!

http://www.spiked-online.com/spiked-review/article/i-wont-ask-permission-to-say-what-i-want/19145#.WHLpEraF5di

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq6JVEA-qCUAlso an interesting video on the debunking of white male privilege, by a young woman.

py2006

mzungu wrote: »

Mainly, feminism is NOT the cause of mens suicide or mental health issues. Or, at least I do not believe it is.

It would not surprise me in the least if it was a contributing factor.

If I was to be an avid reader (and believer) of the likes of Louise and Una I'd most likely being suffering mentally.

Well, it wouldn't help, tbh, to read such articles. Like, in general, if you are being blamed for something that you cannot control-ie your gender, your sexuality, traits that are biological, rather than habitual etc. than you may feel a bit troubled.
That said, usually one would have had to already have some form of mental health issues, to find something like this affecting your mental health. (Think having issues with rent or your job, whilst already suffering from depression, and you get the idea).
I mean, I understand this from personal experience, and a little research.

I think the troubling element to this, also, is that much of their 'issues' are borne out of an absolutely humourless approach to their feminism.MAny of us hold certain things sacred, but we laugh about elements of our ideals. I mean, there are priests who thoroughly enjoy Fr Ted, for example, with many often approaching the late Frank Kelly saying 'we had our own Fr JAck in our diocese'.

But with Una, or LON, you dont see that humour-like, the Niamh Horan, tongue in cheek article on Rugby was so utterly vilified, by Mullaly and co, that you would swear Horan was a genuine sports columnist-nope (and I can question Horan's own approach to the article, but it was hardly something like the ctrl-alt-right crwod. She's a step above Amanda Brunker, mind, but still not a sports journo. Yet while I am no fan of Horan's, she does often come out with some modicum of sensible ideas (a broken clock is right twice a day) compared to Una and Lon.

Yet when Horan has made otherwise sensible statements ('the dangers of alcohol, for both men and women', for example.) Una and LON come out decrying her for 'blaming victims' aka women for their assaults. When actually it's just a bit of sensible advice about keeping safe. Same reason why many of us go out in groups in order to avoid some jerk mugging us. Or when she has challenged those who go on about 'body shaming' on Instagram-well, many of those are using Instagram to advertise products and jewellery, company's (yes, even Lon) and 'beautfy' products-so the so-called 'shaming' is merely calling individuals out on protecting their 'profile'.
Sometimes, presenting someone with cold hard facts is a tough thing to deal with-I know, many of us have gone through such an ordeal. It's not easy, takes a while to absorb, but its important to one's growth.

Ian O'Doherty was none too fond of Lon's fave show

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I know most of those words.

Just trying to reinforce the point that it's not LON herself that I and probably most of us here are really bothered by, it's the brand of feminism she stands for..

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Ah I know, I was just having a laugh about the fact that stuff can't even be described without a bucketfull of buzzwords

I nearly wrote..''Load of sh1te'' ..might've been more succinct

py2006 wrote: »

It would not surprise me in the least if it was a contributing factor.

I have come across a few theories regarding this (one being in the video posted) and to be honest none of them really hold much water, or at least I am not convinced by them. One thing they all seem to have in common is the missing father figure. It always appears to me as if somebody is throwing their agenda (Manosphere, I would guess) down the readers throat.

I think a lot of these problems with mental illness & male suicide were always there (just not as well documented back in the days of yore) so I would not apportion any blame towards various incarnations of feminism down through the years.

Widdershins wrote: »

An interesting article that kind of loosely ties in with the LON style of Intersectional Feminism and illiberal 'liberalism' and particularly the No Platfrom-ing, censorious, virtue-signalling and preachy behaviour, and Identity Politics!

http://www.spiked-online.com/spiked-review/article/i-wont-ask-permission-to-say-what-i-want/19145#.WHLpEraF5di

Ah yes, I recall Shriver's talk on cultural appropriation, and her opposition to it, caused a bit of a stir in some circles last year. So much so, one "activist" had to leave the room because it was all too much....and then wrote an opinion piece in The Guardian about it.

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I know most of those words.

Widdershins wrote: »

Just trying to reinforce the point that it's not LON herself that I and probably most of us here are really bothered by, it's the brand of feminism she stands for..

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Ah I know, I was just having a laugh about the fact that stuff can't even be described without a bucketfull of buzzwords

The first thing that hit me was:"Oh sweet Jesus, I actually know what all of those buzzwords mean". In a lot of cases, new lingo and terminology passes me by, but not those for some reason!!

My new years resolution is to get out more....a lot more!

mzungu wrote: »

Ah yes, I recall Shriver's talk on cultural appropriation, and her opposition to it, caused a bit of a stir in some circles last year. So much so, one "activist" had to leave the room because it was all too much....and then wrote an opinion piece in The Guardian about it.

It's a fairly long article and I haven't read all of it but it does mention that incident. I think Shriver only asserted that writers aren't doing anything harmful by drawing inspiration from various cultures/traditions, which is completely sensible. We'd have no art and literature if some of these loons got their way..and I'm reading the article about the walk-out and she really makes a song and dance about it!

''The stench of privilege hung heavy in the air'' someone needs to make a perfume by that name

''My own mother, as we walked away from the tent, suggested that perhaps I was being too sensitive.''

Venom

Widdershins wrote: »

It's a fairly long article and I haven't read all of it but it does mention that incident. I think Shriver only asserted that writers aren't doing anything harmful by drawing inspiration from various cultures/traditions, which is completely sensible. We'd have no art and literature if some of these loons got their way..and I'm reading the article about the walk-out and she really makes a song and dance about it!

''The stench of privilege hung heavy in the air'' someone needs to make a perfume by that name

''My own mother, as we walked away from the tent, suggested that perhaps I was being too sensitive.''

It's just another excuse for these virtue signaling morons to play the victim card with sadly far to many media outlets only to happy to oblige and not call them out on crap.

pumpkin4life

Widdershins wrote: »

It's a fairly long article and I haven't read all of it but it does mention that incident. I think Shriver only asserted that writers aren't doing anything harmful by drawing inspiration from various cultures/traditions, which is completely sensible. We'd have no art and literature if some of these loons got their way..and I'm reading the article about the walk-out and she really makes a song and dance about it!

''The stench of privilege hung heavy in the air'' someone needs to make a perfume by that name

''My own mother, as we walked away from the tent, suggested that perhaps I was being too sensitive.''

L'Eau De Privilege

For the minority in your life.

ivytwine

mzungu wrote: »

I have come across a few theories regarding this (one being in the video posted) and to be honest none of them really hold much water, or at least I am not convinced by them. One thing they all seem to have in common is the missing father figure. It always appears to me as if somebody is throwing their agenda (Manosphere, I would guess) down the readers throat.

I think a lot of these problems with mental illness & male suicide were always there (just not as well documented back in the days of yore) so I would not apportion any blame towards various incarnations of feminism down through the years.

To be honest I think it's always been there. Men of our fathers or grandfathers' generation just drank themselves to death, slow suicide by another name.

I do think that maybe the demise of traditional trades and manufacturing jobs doesn't help at all, but that's not feminism, rather mechanisation.

Women are also going through a fairly bad mental health crisis but for whatever reason we tend to seek help more than men.

Outlaw Pete

mzungu wrote: »

Ah yes, I recall Shriver's talk on cultural appropriation, and her opposition to it, caused a bit of a stir in some circles last year. So much so, one "activist" had to leave the room because it was all too much....and then wrote an opinion piece in The Guardian about it.

LOL

As I stood up, my heart began to race. I could feel the eyes of the hundreds of audience members on my back: questioning, querying, judging.

I turned to face the crowd, lifted up my chin and walked down the main aisle, my pace deliberate. “Look back into the audience,” a friend had texted me moments earlier, “and let them see your face.”

The faces around me blurred. As my heels thudded against they grey plastic of the flooring, harmonising with the beat of the adrenaline pumping through my veins, my mind was blank save for one question.

“How is this happening?”

So what did happen? What did Shriver say in her keynote that could drive a woman who has heard every slur under the sun to discard social convention and make such an obviously political exit?

I'm surprised she could walk at all, what with her head being stuck so far up her own arse. .It's hard to believe people like this actually exist. "My heels thudded against they grey plastic of the flooring, harmonising with the beat of the adrenaline pumping through my veins". Would ya fcuk off!

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

LOL

I'm surprised she could walk at all, what with her head being stuck so far up her own arse. .It's hard to believe people like this actually exist. "My heels thudded against they grey plastic of the flooring, harmonising with the beat of the adrenaline pumping through my veins". Would ya fcuk off!

I imagine nobody noticed and those who did look over at her thought she was just going to the bathroom. I detect a desperate craving to be the centre of drama, to be noticed and to be important!

Wibbs

ivytwine wrote: »

Women are also going through a fairly bad mental health crisis but for whatever reason we tend to seek help more than men.

True, but one simple reason might be that society values women more as far as options and avenues fro treatment and acceptance of mental illnesses themselves in women. Sure it may at times be condescending but it's there. So for example if a woman reading this thread has to leave a violent partner she has far more social safety nets to help her do so. How many men's shelters are there? Ditto for homelessness. In the west in general homelessness is more gendered. This is a UK report, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't reflected similarly in Ireland. 71% of the homeless were men. Again a UK report but it's the Guardian and they're well known for being extremely "right on" and they show large disparities where it comes to social support along gender lines.

Basically society is far less supportive of men who are deemed vulnerable. Vulnerability is itself seen as "unmanly" to a large extent. So it wouldn't be any great wonder why men who feel out of the loop also feel devalued and ignored.

ivytwine

Wibbs wrote: »

True, but one simple reason might be that society values women more as far as options and avenues fro treatment and acceptance of mental illnesses themselves in women. Sure it may at times be condescending but it's there. So for example if a woman reading this thread has to leave a violent partner she has far more social safety nets to help her do so. How many men's shelters are there? Ditto for homelessness. In the west in general homelessness is more gendered. This is a UK report, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't reflected similarly in Ireland. 71% of the homeless were men. Again a UK report but it's the Guardian and they're well known for being extremely "right on" and they show large disparities where it comes to social support along gender lines.

Basically society is far less supportive of men who are deemed vulnerable. Vulnerability is itself seen as "unmanly" to a large extent. So it wouldn't be any great wonder why men who feel out of the loop also feel devalued and ignored.

Even our traditional stereotypical view of the homeless is usually that of a man. Now I know that women on the streets do face some very specific issues regarding sanitation etc, but it's probably because it's mainly seen as a man's issue that that overlooking of women's needs arises.

This is where I would argue that traditional feminism could actually benefit men in helping to deconstruct the old stereotypes and reiterating that men can show emotion and vulnerability. However the current mode of the movement has no place for men as human beings. I've a dad who was damaged by his education in the "traditional" mode. I've male friends, have had boyfriends who struggle badly with their mental health. And it breaks my heart to see them- they're not potential rapists, they're people I care about and they're suffering.

Widdershins wrote: »

It's a fairly long article and I haven't read all of it but it does mention that incident. I think Shriver only asserted that writers aren't doing anything harmful by drawing inspiration from various cultures/traditions, which is completely sensible. We'd have no art and literature if some of these loons got their way..and I'm reading the article about the walk-out and she really makes a song and dance about it!

Oh I agree, cultural appropriation, besides being BS, is completely unworkable. Much of the arts disciplines have borrowed here and there from different cultures. It is all part of a natural progression and evolution of swapping ideas and taking on board new influences. I believe Shriver was accused of promoting an imperialist colonialist mindset for stating that it was ok for writers to write from the point of view of people in other cultures

Widdershins wrote: »

''The stench of privilege hung heavy in the air'' someone needs to make a perfume by that name

ivytwine wrote: »

To be honest I think it's always been there. Men of our fathers or grandfathers' generation just drank themselves to death, slow suicide by another name.

I do think that maybe the demise of traditional trades and manufacturing jobs doesn't help at all, but that's not feminism, rather mechanisation.

Women are also going through a fairly bad mental health crisis but for whatever reason we tend to seek help more than men.

Yep, a lot of these changes to the traditional family structure are as a direct result of things like long working hours, hefty mortgages, cost of living, childcare, lack of job security and the disappearance of the job for life etc. So I agree, workplace changes have most likely played a role in that (how big or small depends on the individual).