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New York Giants Thread

wawaman

We need to get a dedicated tread going for the G-Men !

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wawaman

There should be some job vacancies on the special teams unit this week

Beefy78

Urgh, horrible performance. Guess we've got eight months of hearing about Miami and boat trips.

HigginsJ

wawaman wrote: »

There should be some job vacancies on the special teams unit this week

Really ought to be one at QB too, we are going no where with Eli.

Beefy78 wrote: »

Urgh, horrible performance. Guess we've got eight months of hearing about Miami and boat trips.

Yea Aikman was making a meal of it last night, OBJ had a couple of "drops" (on horrible Eli overthrows) and he was spouting ****e about it. No mention of ot when Shepard was making plays though, funny that :rolleyes:

The D was outstanding last night, aside from the hail mary. They were gassed from Rodgers brilliance & the offenses conplete inability to sustain a drive after the 1st 10 minutes.

It is so difficult to envision success with Eli at QB. Short of importing Dallas's line (the o-line were ok last night) I don't see any more SB's with Eli. Would probably be unwieldy to release him & U know it wouldn't happen but he needs to take a serious pay cut if he insists on hanging around.

Beefy78

Not all the drops were off of over-throws, to be fair.

Knex*

While Eli was bad this season, I thought he played fine last night. Zero running game didn't help, and tbh, I though Odell should have caught all of his. Sheppard could have perhaps done better on his TD chance as well.

We should have gone in at half time with at least 14 points. I think going in the way we did just demoralised the Giants, especially then the way the 2nd half went. That Rainey mistake was brutal. No coming back after GB capitalised on that.

wawaman

When was the last time we had a big return (the last i can remember is last year at home against the cowboys). Special teams have been poor for a long time. We really need to improve the running game, wouldnt be hard when your starting from virtually zero. On the hail mary, while it should have been cut out it was very frustrating when the push in the back on Apple(?) wasnt flagged

krustydoyle

So we get the 23rd pick in the draft..

Beefy78

Eli has been very mediocre and I understand why the focus is on him so much but we've a Offensive Line which can't block, tight-ends who wouldn't make the roster of most other teams and no running backs to speak of. Odell Beckham leads the league in drops - he shouldn't be the scapegoat for last night but he also needs to get his head in the game and start trying to be more Antonio Brown and less Preston Parker.

If they cut/rework Cruz's contract, cut Jennings and a few other fringe players they've got enough cap space to start working on fixing this offense. It's another huge off-season.

HigginsJ

Beefy78 wrote: »

Eli has been very mediocre and I understand why the focus is on him so much but we've a Offensive Line which can't block, tight-ends who wouldn't make the roster of most other teams and no running backs to speak of. Odell Beckham leads the league in drops - he shouldn't be the scapegoat for last night but he also needs to get his head in the game and start trying to be more Antonio Brown and less Preston Parker.

If they cut/rework Cruz's contract, cut Jennings and a few other fringe players they've got enough cap space to start working on fixing this offense. It's another huge off-season.

We have an offensive line with 2 young 1st rounders and a young 2 rounder. Our WR's in Cruz, Shepard and OBJ are as good as you will find in the league. Sure our TE's ain't Gronk but with our pass catchers out wide they are plenty serviceable.

For me the play calling and the QB are the biggest things that hold back the offense. Eli has so many tipped passes or lame ducks passes these days that things are getting out of hand. For me he is the number 1 reason holding back this offense.

Eli was ranked 27 out of 30 qualifying QB's on QBR this year. Only Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Blake Bortles ranked below him. We'd be a Superbowl winning team with mid tier QB.

Beefy78

With respect I think you're overrating our receivers. Cruz has been appalling all year, Shepard has performed like a second round rookie - good but not the finished article. Beckham is incredible obviously.

We've Eli for three more full seasons no matter what. He's uncuttable, untradeable and is a Manning and therefore is definitely not taking a pay cut. He isn't going anywhere and we're not paying $20m+ a year for someone to sit on the bench so the roster needs to built around giving Eli the maximum chance to play as well as he can. That means protecting him better than this line has the last two seasons and giving him a run game to work with.

HigginsJ

On a positive note, I have to hold my hands up and say I was dead wrong about Eli Apple. I had visions of another Price Amukamara but the guy is an absolute stud. Landon Collins deserved his all pro nod as did Snacks. Those guys give you hope that the D will be great for more than just one year. The play calling on D by Spags has been fantastic as well to be fair.

Our rookies overall look to be one of the best draft classes in a long time. Obviously Apple, Shepard and Perkins are starters, the TE Adams has had moments and looks to have a future. Okwara, Adams (safety) and Lewis have all made contributions as UDFA's and it is a pity that Darian Thompson has been hit by the injury bug as he looked a natural partner for Collins.

That looks to be one hell of a haul from one draft.

HigginsJ

Beefy78 wrote: »

With respect I think you're overrating our receivers. Cruz has been appalling all year, Shepard has performed like a second round rookie - good but not the finished article. Beckham is incredible obviously.

We've Eli for three more full seasons no matter what. He's uncuttable, untradeable and is a Manning and therefore is definitely not taking a pay cut. He isn't going anywhere and we're not paying $20m+ a year for someone to sit on the bench so the roster needs to built around giving Eli the maximum chance to play as well as he can. That means protecting him better than this line has the last two seasons and giving him a run game to work with.

I know he is going no-where, much like the rest of the team with him in situ. He has clearly regressed from the last 2 seasons to this year. Building around him is great in theory but there are limited resources when there is so much money invested in him.

Is it after next year that we have to sign OBJ up? If so carrying $20 + million for both Eli & OBJ will make building around Eli very tough.

Leslie91

Love me some Landon Collins..... best safety in the NFL by country mile.

HigginsJ

Leslie91 wrote: »

Love me some Landon Collins..... best safety in the NFL by country mile.

Amazed by his improvement from year 1 to year 2, he looked good as a rookie but his reading of the game this year was off the charts. Spags must love him.

Beefy78

HigginsJ wrote: »

I know he is going no-where, much like the rest of the team with him in situ. He has clearly regressed from the last 2 seasons to this year. Building around him is great in theory but there are limited resources when there is so much money invested in him.

Is it after next year that we have to sign OBJ up? If so carrying $20 + million for both Eli & OBJ will make building around Eli very tough.

He's got one more year under the rookie deal but then they can in theory activate a fifth year as he was a first round pick. I suspect that they'll try to agree a long term deal in 2018.

HigginsJ

Beefy78 wrote: »

He's got one more year under the rookie deal but then they can in theory activate a fifth year as he was a first round pick. I suspect that they'll try to agree a long term deal in 2018.

I assume he will receive the highest WR contract of all time. The figures could be eye watering. Megatron got $132 million with $60 million guaranteed. Could he trump Luck's $140 million with $87 million guaranteed?

Knex*

Some work to be done with regards to contracts for Pugh, Richburg, OBJ, JPP, and Hankins.

Think DRC has another year, and can't see him being cut as he's A, still a stud, and B, a leader of this team. Even with Apple coming on great over the past few weeks, I think he'll stay.

Obvious cuts are Jennings and Donnell (although think Donnell's contract is up). Will be interesting to see what happens with our linebackers. Keenan Robinson and Casillas did well this year, imo. Sheppard was average at best, and JT Thomas, who I like, missed the entire year. BJ Goodson got very few snaps, so not sure what the plan for him next year will be.

John Jerry and Newhouse I believe deserve extensions, providing the price is right. They're more than solid backups, tbh.

We'll need a new kicker, and potentially a new long snapper if Zak DeOssie doens't get a new deal.

Other folks who's contracts are up are:
Tye
Wade
Nassib
Wynn
Herzlich
Leon Hall

That's a lot of depth that's hitting FA. Reese will have another busy offseason.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

Nassib

I'd be shocked if Nassib is back, such a waste of draft picks. We are going to have to draft a QB again this year if he is not back. I would be looking to someone like Brad Kaaya or Chad Kelly (injury permitting) in the 4th round as a decent pick up.

Knex*

Also, I want a new OC. Mike Sullivan was never the answer. His time with Tampa Bay should have shown that.

Fair enough there was a fear that a new OC from the outside would rock the boat of a working offense, but its not like that's the case now. Get someone in who follows a similar methodology to McAdoo, so Eli is learning a total new offense and reworking his footwork etc again.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

Also, I want a new OC. Mike Sullivan was never the answer. His time with Tampa Bay should have shown that.

Fair enough there was a fear that a new OC from the outside would rock the boat of a working offense, but its not like that's the case now. Get someone in who follows a similar methodology to McAdoo, so Eli is learning a total new offense and reworking his footwork etc again.

Is McAdoo not calling the offense? Does that not really lessen the role of the OC? Would McAdoo not just tell Sullivan how to run training and what he wants done?

Knex*

I had thought that Sullivan was involved heavily in the playbook/scheme etc. Could be wrong though.

I see your point though. If McAdoo is orchestrating the offense regardless, it could be change for the sake of change.

boccy23

Knex. wrote: »

I had thought that Sullivan was involved heavily in the playbook/scheme etc. Could be wrong though.

I see your point though. If McAdoo is orchestrating the offense regardless, it could be change for the sake of change.

I think this is definitely the case. We have a high class D and wasted it this year. All season, the Offense has been poor and we waited and waited for it to "click". It never did and that showed again yesterday. We overcame what i would say was a worse line last year to at least put up numbers. This year we could do virtually nothing.

For this, the blame has to go to McAdoo and definitely Sullivan. They need to be able to at least put a competent Offense on the field. If we had done this yesterday, we would have been 14 or 17 points up before Green Bay got back in it. And then we will never know what could have happened.

I thought our Special teams play was awful yesterday. Brad Wing was atrocious. His punt from deep of 45 yard line drive left Green Bay with a very short field, set up at our 38 yard line, for their first touchdown. His punts were all short and line drives which left returns possible.

And don't get me started on Bobby Rainey.. :mad::mad::mad:

The Hail Mary was the turning point. Even when we were trying to get back into it, that 7 point hurdle was huge.

HigginsJ

boccy23 wrote: »

And don't get me started on Bobby Rainey.. :mad::mad::mad:

Just idiotic. Unexplainable, the guy should have been cut on the spot. Place the ball at our 40 and you never know what happens. Ball at our 3 and we were in deep.

Beefy78

I think the ball was going to go through the endzone, unless it got a lucky bounce. So it would probably have gone to the 25. Either way it was brain-dead play. And yeah even as a big fan of Brad Wing the starting positions we were given up were a killer. The Defense looks like it's had a shocker but they were put in that position by the other two units.

HigginsJ

Beefy78 wrote: »

The Defense looks like it's had a shocker but they were put in that position by the other two units.

The D did more than enough, our 3rd down conversion after that 1st 10 minutes was terrible. We could get nothing going on O, exact same as against Washington.

HigginsJ

http://nypost.com/cover/covers-for-january-9-2017/

The New York post making a big deal of the boat trip. :eek:

boccy23

HigginsJ wrote: »

http://nypost.com/cover/covers-for-january-9-2017/

The New York post making a big deal of the boat trip. :eek:

Tabloid reporting. Always going to happen.

If they had won, it would have been Dream Boat or something to that effect.

Rainman16

I love that Tye and King, The 2 giants receivers that didn't go on to Miami were their 2 best receivers last night.

Rainman16

What Rainey did was incredibly stupid. But even worse was the Manning fumble that the giants offence didn't bother to jump on, for some reason they didn't know what was going on but Clay Matthews did. There was also a punt return where the giants let the ball bounce, let it hit off a giants player, and didn't realize the ball was live.

It seems their minds were not focused on the game.

Beefy78

They were just bad plays. There's no more to it than that.