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heating broken,landlord says its my problem to fix

joeyboy12345

Hi,
Having returned after the xmas to our rental property the gas heating wasnt working. I rang the E.A dealing with our lease to tell him the situation thinking he would send a plumber at the landlords expense. When i explained the problem he said the system was airlocked because i had turned the heating off over the xmas and therefore it was my issue to fix at my expense. I didnt argue as i didnt know where i stood. Is he right?

We have been renting this property the last 2 and a half years with no hassel and rent always paid early.

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Kalimah

Here's my tuppence worth. We were away for two weeks in the summer a few years ago and came back to no heating. It's a gas system too. What had gone,and was a cheap fix in the end, was the thermo coupling which in my limited understanding fires up the boiler and keeps it fired. The gas engineer told us that with a period of non use the tips of the thermo coupling become carbonised and won't work anymore. We used the heating all year round for hot water- just turned off the rads and ran the heating for a hour once a day. I've never had an air locked system and I get my now 23 year old boiler serviced every year (mainly to keep it going )and for safety.

XsApollo

We have gas heating here with solar for water, the heating does be off for months during the year and no issues here.

thegills

There's the issue; EA versus LL. The LL probably pays the EA a monthly service fee to "manage and maintain" the property. The EA tries to do as little as possible in order to make more money from the monthly service fee so will deflect every issue raised; especially if they have a nice tenant who doesn't complain.

If the boiler has not been serviced annually then you're in the clear as the EA / LL is negligent and placing you and your family in danger. The carbon monoxide alarms are also the responsibility of the EA / LL as are fire blankets and fire extinguishers, etc. Unfortunately you are at risk as the tenant so you need to be firm here. The PRTB are a good place to go to understand your rights.

I would demand that the heating is fixed immediately and also report the EA / LL to the PRTB (assuming the house is registered) if the house is not up to expected standards.

I'm a LL by the way.

[Deleted User]

I would regularly have the heating completely off for 3 or 4 months at a time (off as in boiler not turned on whatsoever even for heating water) and it never caused a problem.

As an aside as some people are taking about yearly services. There is no requirement for yearly services, every two years is perfectly sufficient.

GreenFolder2

If a heating system "airlocks" after a few days of being off it has a major problem. It sounds to me like the system is either leaking or was never commissioned properly. Air doesn't just get into heating systems ... There has to be a hole somewhere.

Heating systems have automatic air vents or a header tank old non pressurised systems and normally remain completely full of water.

If you switched the heating off entirely for 6+ months you might need to run a few checks when firing it up again but normally the heating being off for a few days or even weeks shouldn't make any difference at all.

Your EA needs to their job and arrange for that system to be serviced and put into proper order. Pawning off maintenance issues on the tenant isn't fair and quite frankly is dangerous too. What if you now attempt to fix the system and do further damage? Who is responsible?

Is the water pressure normal from all of the taps in the apartment?
Is it a gas combi boiler? Are there any visible warning b lights etc?

GreenFolder2

Paisley Bald Splint wrote: »

As an aside as some people are taking about yearly services. There is no requirement for yearly services, every two years is perfectly sufficient.

To cover yourself legally, if renting a property out, gas or oil burning appliances in particular need to be serviced annually. You've a risk of carbon monoxide leaks, particularly with older indoor boilers.

It's also advisable as a slow leak can do serious damage to a property or to the plumbing. The last thing you want in a heating system is water slowly topping up all the time. You fill a system and the water will pick up ions from the pipework and become saturated and stable (it usually has an inhibitor added too). If you keep adding fresh water it keeps absorbing ions from the pipes and radiators and introduces absorbed oxygen both of which will cause corrosion of the system over time.

mad m

Sometimes on a heating control there is a reset button, you have to push slider control all the way across and you will see a tiny black button, push it with a pen to reset system. If you have pressure in the system then its not down to a leak unless you top it up again and see does it drop.

Is it a pre pay gas card?

[Deleted User]

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

To cover yourself legally, if renting a property out, gas or oil burning appliances in particular need to be serviced annually. You've a risk of carbon monoxide leaks, particularly with older indoor boilers.

It's also advisable as a slow leak can do serious damage to a property or to the plumbing. The last thing you want in a heating system is water slowly topping up all the time. You fill a system and the water will pick up ions from the pipework and become saturated and stable (it usually has an inhibitor added too). If you keep adding fresh water it keeps absorbing ions from the pipes and radiators and introduces absorbed oxygen both of which will cause corrosion of the system over time.

There is no legal requirement in Ireland for yearly services.

The last place I was living the boiler hadn't been serviced in 10 years so after a year of living there I requested a service. Asking for another the following year would be total over kill imo as I wouldn't do it with my own boiler.

A2LUE42

Is there a release valve for the water pressure in your hot press? If you turn the heating on and then open the valve until the pressure returns to the level it should be at and then close the valve again. Do a Google for your boiler type and see what the pressure should be.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

jordata

Get back on to the EA. It is not unreasonable to expect heating can be turned on and off as needed. Are you expected to keep it on all Summer in case it becomes air locked? Do not attempt repairs yourself. Have a look at your contact regarding repairs - or check the Threshold website.

From threshold.ie
"Repairs and maintenance
The first thing you should do if there are repair or maintenance problems with your rented property is to contact your landlord or agent, preferably in
writing.
If your landlord refuses to carry out necessary repairs in a timely fashion, it is possible to get the work carried out yourself and you should be reimbursed by your landlord. Always inform your landlord that you intend to do this before you proceed, preferably in writing.
If your landlord does not carry out the necessary repairs in a reasonable timeframe, you can serve your landlord with a 28 day Notice of Termination on the grounds of failure of the landlord to meet their obligations.
You cannot alter or improve the property, including changing the locks, without the written permission of your landlord. Your landlord cannot unreasonably refuse requests by you to repair, paint or decorate the property."

Quote it to your EA.

Germancarfan

Leaving the gas running while the apartment was empty for a few days would have been more irresponsible than turning it off IMO.
This is the EA / LL's issue. Not yours. If you take any action and make it worse or break something else they will hold that against you.

The EA probably expects you to call a plumber at your expense, not take action yourself. I also agree that the EA is trying to protect their margin most likely. is the tenancy PRTB registered? http://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/check-if-a-tenancy-is-registered

The boiler should be serviced annually.
You should have carbon monoxide and smoke alarms - not sure on the fire blanket.

It's possible the LL does not know that the boiler isn't service if he is paying the EA for maintenance.
Have you any direct contact with the LL or is it the EA only?
Who is your tenancy signed by ? the EA or the LL?

IvyTheTerrible

We leave our heating off for at least 6 months of the year and it works when we switch it back on.
It's frankly bull that you have to have heating on every day to keep it working.

jsd1004

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

To cover yourself legally, if renting a property out, gas or oil burning appliances in particular need to be serviced annually. You've a risk of carbon monoxide leaks, particularly with older indoor boilers.

It's also advisable as a slow leak can do serious damage to a property or to the plumbing. The last thing you want in a heating system is water slowly topping up all the time. You fill a system and the water will pick up ions from the pipework and become saturated and stable (it usually has an inhibitor added too). If you keep adding fresh water it keeps absorbing ions from the pipes and radiators and introduces absorbed oxygen both of which will cause corrosion of the system over time.

Wrong. There is no legal requirement for a landlord to service a boiler annually.

athtrasna

Mod note

This is not the plumbing and heating forum. The only relevant issue for discussion in this forum is the landlord's responsibility (or lack thereof) to remedy the situation.

Thanks

Stealthfins

jsd1004 wrote:

Wrong. There is no legal requirement for a landlord to service a boiler annually.

Who's the owner of the boiler ?

Is it not up to the landlord to cut the grass and maintain the property to the highest standard.

Is it up to guests in a hotel to service a boiler ?

Germancarfan

Stealthfins wrote: »

Who's the owner of the boiler?

Is it not up to the landlord to cut the grass and maintain the property to the highest standard.

Is it up to guests in a hotel to service a boiler?

No, it's up to the landlord to maintain the property to a minimum standard which is enforced by local authorities. Heating and access to hot and cold water are one of those standards.

OP you have 3 routes here in my opinion.

1 - Insist with the LL/EA that they call a plumber/heating engineer or agree up front that the costs will be covered.
2 - call a plumber get if fixed then ask the LL to pay the bill after the fact.
3 - Suck it up and cover it yourself then forget about it.

1 would be my personal choice. 2 if you fancy a fight after the fact. 3 if you just want an easy life

Michael D Not Higgins

Germancarfan wrote: »

this is the SI that covers the standards should you require it

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/534/made/en/print

jsd1004 wrote: »

It is wrong. There is NO legal requirement in this country for a domestic landlord to service a working boiler. Your advice or anyones recommendations is not the law.

It comes down to interpretation of the wording. There is no specific requirement to service the boiler, however the standards for rented housing require that installations for the supply of gas (up to interpretation whether this includes the boiler) shall be maintained in good repair (i.e. working) and safe working order (i.e. not malfunctioning in an unsafe way).

It could be argued that the landlord is remiss in his duties by not conducting services to the boiler as it cannot be confirmed that the boiler is in safe working order.

Again, this is only interpretation but if I had gas in Ireland in rented accommodation, I'd be asking for a service every couple of years. As it is, I had a new boiler when I moved into my flat in the UK and it has been serviced each year as required by law even though this is overkill for a brand new boiler.

OP, as to your issue, since you have done some simple checks of airlock, etc. it's time to call the agent again. You are not responsible for fixing anything beyond a basic check which you have already done.

GreenFolder2

It's not overkill by any means. A blocked flue on a boiler or damage to the casing can result in carbon monoxide getting into the room.

In general, Ireland is behind the times on these kinds of basic regulations.

You're talking a 15-20 min job once a year to prevent issues .

It'll also identify problems with leaks, pressurisation, timers, thermostats etc which if allowed to go on can damage the system or the house - slow leaks, corroded heating systems etc etc.

It's fairly short-sighted of any householder or landlord not to get those things checked over once a year.

Most countries in Northern Europe also require a less frequent, periodic inspection or electrical installations to ensure things are safe.

Stealthfins

Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm a home owner since 2003 so haven't rented in a long time.

But I remember when anything maintenance wise went wrong the landlord was always responsible, including heating problems,grass cutting, hedge maintenance, shower washing machine etc

These were your old money old school descent landlords,who were professional selfless and had good communication skills.

I think a lot of these boom/bust landlord's are kicking their responsibility to the kirb and just taking as much money as they can.

Using the old excuse it would cost you more to seek legal advice etc to persue a case against them.

<snip>

PierreLeCake

The OP has a Gas Boiler which is n't working. The EA has tried to fob him off by saying its airlocked. The EA is not a plumber and has not examined the boiler. Its the Landlords responsibility to make sure the boiler is working correctly. Its debatable at this stage if the Landlord is even aware there is a problem as the EA has given the tenant the brush off. I would ring the EA and insist that he informs the Landlord there is an issue and you want a plumber to examine the boiler. If the boiler is not attended promptly , who knows if more serious damage will occur. If possible try and find out your Landlords details and contact them directly to let them know about the situation.

GreenFolder2

It's fairly clear that it is NOT the tenants responsibility to repair the heating system and its also very clear that properly functioning heating systems do not "airlock" at random like this.

Everything else is basically irrelevant.

EA is trying to fob the OP off.

professore

What amazes me is the clairvoyant ability of the EA to diagnose a heating system problem over the phone. It's the middle of winter - the OP is paying top dollar for a working heating system. You would think at the very least they would talk the OP through some diagnostics and if that didn't work send someone out AS A MINIMUM.

And for those telling the OP to leave the heating on even when not there, I take it the LL should pay for the extra heating bills - since it's his rubbish heating system that requires this?

Who is responsible if the OP gets sick due to non working heating?

Gas boilers NEED to be serviced ideally every year, but at least once every 2 years. I know, I've got one in my house. If you don't, they give problems.

Jeju

Talk to the EA and get the contacts email address, email the details of the problem, ie the boiler is not working and requires a solution, one your not qualified to do. Request an emailed reply as matter of urgency. If they refuse this request to speak to their manager or someone higher up. If they refuse get onto the landlord direct. An an accidental LL myself any issues regarding Heating, water electric is taken care of ASAP and that means me going over to investigate as soon as I can.

spaceHopper

OP it happend to us when we were renting, the LL send over a plumber who fixed it in less than five minutes, he operates a valve that either topped up the system or let air out, I've no idea which. If I'd been told how to do it I've have hand no issue fixing it myself. Go back to the agent tell them to sort it or you'll be making a complaint to the RTB.

Gazzmonkey

Left mine off for 8 days whilst we went home for Christmas

Came back, fired up the boiler & re-lit the AGA.. no issues what so ever

During the summer we leave all off for about 8 weeks... still no issues when its time to start using heating again.

Your system shouldn't be airlocked after been off for a few days

pwurple

This is ridiculous. There's no question whatsoever. It's the LL's responsibility. I'd have a frikken fit if I thought a tenant was fiddling about with a gas boiler they know nothing about in my property. The damage they could cause through messing doesn't bear thinking about.
They may have delegated that responsibility to a manager or estate agent, but if they are not showing up, get right back onto the landlord.

Cutting grass is another thing altogether, do they vacuum your floor as well? That's way overboard, and I wouldn't want my landlord pottering around my garden once a week for a snoop. Provide mower, sure. Done.

Ms Doubtfire1

Had the same issue no more than 6 weeks back.LL responsibility all the way.Same goes for maintaining all the appliances.AND the yearly service. He plays hardball? tenancyboard. End of story.

the_syco

If the EA does get someone out, ask them for proof of being a registered gas installer, as at this stage I wouldn't trust them not to cut corners!