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Child Item

Turas Nua hassling me.

CaptainInsano

Hi,

I was forced to take part in the Jobpath scheme which consisted of me signing a page to say I attended a meeting and then leaving. Anyway without any help from them I found full time work and let them and the social know. This was months ago. I receive weekly letters, calls and texts ever since reminding of my obligation to accept their assistance to help cope with my new job. This involves them calling my boss to ask about my progress. How do I get rid of them? I haven't accepted social welfare in months and they threatened to cut it the other day.

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dar100

Ignore them

smjm

I would block or simply ignore their phone calls, and put their letters in the bin.

If they're actually calling your boss, ask him/her to tell them to stop doing so immediately.

jonon9

They have no right to be calling your boss, you found your own employment without their help. If I were you I call into them personally and tell them stop calling and mind their own business.

Kristopherus

CaptainInsano wrote: »

Hi,

I was forced to take part in the Jobpath scheme which consisted of me signing a page to say I attended a meeting and then leaving. Anyway without any help from them I found full time work and let them and the social know. This was months ago. I receive weekly letters, calls and texts ever since reminding of my obligation to accept their assistance to help cope with my new job. This involves them calling my boss to ask about my progress. How do I get rid of them? I haven't accepted social welfare in months and they threatened to cut it the other day.

Send the next letter back to them with a note that you no longer require their services.

Balagan

Have a read of this to find out the quite prolonged 'service' they offer. http://www.turasnua.ie/content/view/Service+statement and you'll note that they do not distinguish in any way between you finding a job off your own bat and them assisting you to find it.

Nowhere does it mention that they will call your boss after you start work but they do intend continuing to keep in touch with you for a whole year, so best get a complaint letter in asap. The link gives the address to go to with complaints and I would recommend also copying any letter you send to local office to the office in Roscrea, Co. Tipperary, which is mentioned in the link for complaints and feedback. The fact that they have contacted your boss is a matter for which you should expect an apology and I wouldn't hesitate to tell them that.

jonon9

Balagan wrote: »

Have a read of this to find out the quite prolonged 'service' they offer. http://www.turasnua.ie/content/view/Service+statement and you'll note that they do not distinguish in any way between you finding a job off your own bat and them assisting you to find it.

Nowhere does it mention that they will call your boss after you start work but they do intend continuing to keep in touch with you for a whole year, so best get a complaint letter in asap. The link gives the address to go to with complaints and I would recommend also copying any letter you send to local office to the office in Roscrea, Co. Tipperary, which is mentioned in the link for complaints and feedback. The fact that they have contacted your boss is a matter for which you should expect an apology and I wouldn't hesitate to tell them that.

Agreed, They should have not contacted the employer it has nothing to do with them, I would be very annoyed with them to be honest.

Nomis21

This is what happens when profit based private companies get involved with social welfare.

Wanderer78

Nomis21 wrote:

This is what happens when profit based private companies get involved with social welfare.

It's very disturbing to see our government has no real clue how to deal with unemployment. Very disturbing

CaptainInsano

Sorry just to clarify they haven't made contact with my boss but requested their mobile number, the lady said it could be used if they couldnt get in touch with me to see how I was getting on. I didn't give it to them.

Is it true they get paid if they find you job? Maybe that's what this is about. I threw the cv they made me in the bin, it didn't even mention my relevant qualifications for this line of work. I used my old cv which they had rubbished.

Wanderer78

CaptainInsano wrote: »

Sorry just to clarify they haven't made contact with my boss but requested their mobile number, the lady said it could be used if they couldnt get in touch with me to see how I was getting on. I didn't give it to them.

Is it true they get paid if they find you job? Maybe that's what this is about. I threw the cv they made me in the bin, it didn't even mention my relevant qualifications for this line of work. I used my old cv which they had rubbished.

it sounds like they get paid for the amount of 'active customers', i assume you're an active customer

smjm

CaptainInsano wrote: »

Sorry just to clarify they haven't made contact with my boss but requested their mobile number, the lady said it could be used if they couldnt get in touch with me to see how I was getting on. I didn't give it to them.

Is it true they get paid if they find you job? Maybe that's what this is about. I threw the cv they made me in the bin, it didn't even mention my relevant qualifications for this line of work. I used my old cv which they had rubbished.

As far as I gather, they get paid if you get a job while you're on their books; doesn't matter if you found the job or they did -- they'll claim it was with their help either way. They get paid instalments every few months that you keep the job; they probably have to provide proof of that, hence why they want contact with you or your employer.

If I found my own job, then I personally would just refuse any contact with them whatsoever. I wouldn't return calls or respond to letters; I certainly wouldn't go to see them. They'll get the message sooner or later.

crossmolinalad

Sent the letters unopened back written on the envelope moved address unknown
That worked with a friend of mine
He never heard about them again

Chaos Black

I have had similar issues with Seetec, another jobpath company. I went in and explained my position, they tried to sell me the spiel that it was for my benefit, but they want your details essentially so they get paid. I was polite, but firm, and in the end established that they have no powers to force the issue.

If they really push the matter, which they might well as I assume employees are mandated to, offer to write to the department of social welfare and say you will deal with them. At the end of the day, the jobpath companies are sub contracted and have limited powers in Ireland (I presume due to complaints that cropped up in the U.K.).

Bray Head

Out of curiosity, how many phone calls did you actually receive?

People have different definitions of what 'hassle' is.

CaptainInsano

Bray Head wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how many phone calls did you actually receive?

People have different definitions of what 'hassle' is.

I can't give an exact figure but once I got employment it was daily calls. Sometimes texts, calls and emails in the same day for about a 2 week period. I was getting calls from Tipp and my home town and they never had had any communication between them, asking the same questions etc.
I still receive letters requesting me to attend every week. I actually heard from them far less when I was unemployed.

To be honest I would consider any regular contact from them after I'm in employment as hassle. Especially when I can't physically attend their meetings when working and the social welfare payments that they're are threatening to cut doesn't exist.

Bray Head

Is this hassle or just a firm fulfilling contractual obligations to discover what has happened to a client?

Lack of co-ordination between different offices is bad practice but the OP has only given one example of where they have told TN that they are in employment. Are the calls being answered or ignored? If it is the latter then they will keep coming.

Maybe they are contacting the OP to find out if they are still in employment. This is presumably one thing that they have to follow up on.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

OP, you're not longer unemployed and therefore, you are under no obligation to continue to engage with them as part of the conditionality of receiving Jobseekers. How did they get your employers details? Write a firm letter notifying them that you do not wish to receive any further communications from them. If these calls and texts continue, make a complaint under the Data Protection Acts, and have a look at their registration details to see if this is one of the stated purposes for which your data was collected.

CaptainInsano

Bray Head wrote: »

Maybe they are contacting the OP to find out if they are still in employment. This is presumably one thing that they have to follow up on.

They know everything minus my boss' phone number which is what they're after.

I've asked over the phone to stop contacting me and they said they want to monitor progress and it's only for a year, I've said no thanks repeatedly. Now I ignore all correspondence but they continue to book me appointments when I'm working anyway.

If a "support group" called you asking for your boss' number to monitor you like a child you'd refuse. As stated I'm not in receipt of social welfare so how can I legally be required to accept their services?

Bray Head

I agree that they shouldn't ask for your boss's phone number.

As for the rest, what is the problem with them following up on your progress? It is just data collection which is pretty essential for this kind of project.

Chaos Black

They need the information so they get paid by the department of social welfare for every week their clients are in employment, for up to a year. In theory, the idea is that they help people into employment and then support them if required in employment, in return the majority of money they make, is on clients who attain jobs and stay in employment throughout that one year period.

If you give them the data, they get paid regardless of the role they played in your employment. So for example, in my case, I had secured employment prior to getting put on the scheme, was just waiting on a start date. They want the employment information, for their gain. Which is natural enough for private companies I guess, although I wasn't impressed about the manner in which they go about it.

NATLOR

So basically Turas are requesting assistance from the OP so they can be paid? Quite ironic really.

smjm

Bray Head wrote: »

I agree that they shouldn't ask for your boss's phone number.

As for the rest, what is the problem with them following up on your progress? It is just data collection which is pretty essential for this kind of project.

As the OP said, he got his job without help from Turas Nua. He owes them nothing. The Social don't need any help from TN to know whether someone is back signing on in less than a year!

d9oiu2wk07blr5

Bray Head wrote: »

I agree that they shouldn't ask for your boss's phone number.

As for the rest, what is the problem with them following up on your progress? It is just data collection which is pretty essential for this kind of project.

It is not essential and it's not about data collection. The DSP already has access to information about the transition in to paid employment vis a vis the RSI system and Revenue. The payment mechanism for Jobpath is payment by results. The jobseeker did not get the job through Turas and it's only part of the conditionality that you must engage with them while in receipt of jobseekers. Their attempt to get the contact number of an employer is about building their database of potential employers that they can sell Jobpath to.

Bray Head

smjm wrote: »

Bray Head wrote: »

I agree that they shouldn't ask for your boss's phone number.

As for the rest, what is the problem with them following up on your progress? It is just data collection which is pretty essential for this kind of project.

As the OP said, he got his job without help from Turas Nua. He owes them nothing. The Social don't need any help from TN to know whether someone is back signing on in less than a year!

I am not familiar with the particulars of the contract between Turas Nua and DSP.

However I suspect it involves follow-up of people who are referred to them.

Ireland does not have a good record with state-run activation schemes. Outsourcing to a private sector company is something new. It is important that quality data is collected so that in a few years people can see whether it was effective or not.

I can't see why they are asking for a boss's phone number, but regular follow up to assess progress is not unreasonable.

Bray Head

Titus Bewildered Murderess wrote: »

It is not essential and it's not about data collection. The DSP already has access to information about the transition in to paid employment vis a vis the RSI system and Revenue. The payment mechanism for Jobpath is payment by results. The jobseeker did not get the job through Turas and it's only part of the conditionality that you must engage with them while in receipt of jobseekers. Their attempt to get the contact number of an employer is about building their database of potential employers that they can sell Jobpath to.

Not really. What about the kind of paid employment? What if someone emigrates? What if someone is no longer seeking employment? The Revenue data will not tell you that which is why it is reasonable to follow up in person.

People are speculating about TN having unscrupulous motives. This may be the case. There is also a plausible case that what they are doing is just routine data collection.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

Bray Head wrote: »

Not really. What about the kind of paid employment? What if someone emigrates? What if someone is no longer seeking employment? The Revenue data will not tell you that which is why it is reasonable to follow up in person.

People are speculating about TN having unscrupulous motives. This may be the case. There is also a plausible case that what they are doing is just routine data collection.

Is that data on the sort of employment not collated when they are signing off and leaving jobpath? If a person chooses not to have any further engagement, should their decision not be respected? Now why would TN want the number of an employer who wasn't participating in Jobpath? The employer has no contractual relationship with Turas. Part of the role of the PA is to develop networks with other key stakeholders and to recruit employers to the scheme.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

CaptainInsano wrote: »

They know everything minus my boss' phone number which is what they're after.

I've asked over the phone to stop contacting me and they said they want to monitor progress and it's only for a year, I've said no thanks repeatedly. Now I ignore all correspondence but they continue to book me appointments when I'm working anyway.

If a "support group" called you asking for your boss' number to monitor you like a child you'd refuse. As stated I'm not in receipt of social welfare so how can I legally be required to accept their services?

Are the follow-up appointments to meet you in person or over the phone, and are they conducted during working hours?

CaptainInsano

Titus Bewildered Murderess wrote: »

Are the follow-up appointments to meet you in person or over the phone, and are they conducted during working hours?

In person and yeah they are. I told them I can't physically attend the meetings and to stop sending letters and they said they'd look into. The next letter was that they were going to get in touch with the social about cutting my welfare (not receiving any).

They're a shambles in terms of organisation. My meetings consisted of signing a sheet to say I'd attended then leave. Often without speaking to my advisor.

It's a matter of principle to not engage with them further. They told me the line of work I was pursuing was not viable and rubbished my cv, the same cv that got me full time employment in a job I'm qualified for.

[Deleted User]

There was an article in the irish times a fair while ago that had some detail on how these operators are paid.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/private-jobpath-operators-to-get-job-sustainment-fees-1.2387594

They get a payment for letting you in the door then a payment (up to 4 I think but might be more ? ) every 13 weeks you are in employment. So you could see why they want a fast turn around on clients and definitely lends itself to being not in the job seekers best interest.

smjm

Deleted User wrote: »

There was an article in the irish times a fair while ago that had some detail on how these operators are paid.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/private-jobpath-operators-to-get-job-sustainment-fees-1.2387594

They get a payment for letting you in the door then a payment (up to 4 I think but might be more ? ) every 13 weeks you are in employment. So you could see why they want a fast turn around on clients and definitely lends itself to being not in the job seekers best interest.

It's a ridiculous scheme. The state should just guarantee 20 hours work at minimum wage for anyone considered long-term unemployed.