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Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

beveragelady

I called An Post today to try to sort out a problem with deliveries. The customer service chap was very helpful and I think it all got sorted.
The thing is, I tried to give him my Eircode because I live at a vague rural address but he said that they're not using them because the system isn't set up.
Amazed!
It's bad enough that they're no good to users of satnavs or google maps, but this is just astonishing. Can anybody explain how this could have been launched to such fanfare when it's all but meaningless?

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Alun

I have a new car with a Nissan Connect head unit with built-in GPS, and although the search facility on it isn't too bad, luckily I can do Google searches from it that get routed via the Nissan Connect app on my phone. I can therefore search for anything that Google can find, including Eircodes.

GreenFolder2

oscarBravo wrote: »

Android Auto - now available in standalone mode as well as working with compatible in-dash displays and aftermarket head units - aims to be mostly voice-controlled. I just tried asking it for directions to an eircode, and it worked.

Yeah true but there are still a huge % of cars, including many new ones, that are using manufacturer provided GPS. Eg Toyota cars are mostly still doing that.

You've got to send destinations from Google maps first.

Alun

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

You've got to send destinations from Google maps first.

Mine also has Google Send to Car in the menu, but it doesn't work here in Ireland for reasons that neither Nissan Ireland or Google seem able to tell me.

GreenFolder2

Alun wrote: »

Mine also has Google Send to Car in the menu, but it doesn't work here in Ireland for reasons that neither Nissan Ireland or Google seem able to tell me.

The Toyota one does work. it's just the interface on the touch screen is fairly clunky compared to what Google and Apple do.

I would suspect automakers will largely abandon those proprietary systems. They just can't really build the kind of user experience or provide the updates that Google and Apple can and it will save them a lot of expense on development too.

oscarBravo

Yeah, most car makers are moving to the "projection" approach, because it's a fairly easy way to seamlessly present a very intelligent in-car experience without being tied to either Android or Apple. Toyota are one of the holdouts, for some reason.

PDVerse

It appears that Google Maps have resolved their issue with Apartment buildings etc. that have multiple Eircodes. All appear to be available now in Google Maps (including offline mode). I know that this has been reported before, but I checked particular Eircodes each time and today is the first day that they are working.

Bray Head

Joe Leogue has a story in today's Examiner: "Watchdog finds it cannot ban misleading Eircode adverts"

The advertising watchdog has said it does not have the power to ban Government-produced ads promoting the benefits of Eircode despite finding that the broadcasts were misleading,

The Advertising Standards Authority of Ireland (ASAI) investigated radio and TV ads for Eircode following complaints, and found they incorrectly gave the impression that those in need of emergency assistance need to know their postcode when calling an ambulance.
.......
Documents seen by the Irish Examiner reveal that the ASAI had received complaints from Ms Boylan, the Irish Fire Services Association, and an unnamed consumer who runs a location codes business.
.......
In its response to the complaints, Eircode told the ASAI that relaying the postcode to dispatchers would save time as there would be no need for callers to give directions.

Despite this, the ASAI said there was no supporting evidence that suggested that using Eircode saved time.

In its ruling, the ASAI said it was “concerned” there was implication that having an Eircode was now necessary for callers to the National Ambulance Service.

BonnieSituation

Interesting back and forth at the bottom of a grauniad article:

"It's an issue with your post office delivery people: we not only have only a house name but we don't live on a ..." https://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/89056991

---

If only there was some sort of code system that would identify each and every address in a country...

Bray Head

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Interesting back and forth at the bottom of a grauniad article:

"It's an issue with your post office delivery people: we not only have only a house name but we don't live on a ..." https://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/89056991

---

If only there was some sort of code system that would identify each and every address in a country...

Anything sound familiar here?

Our postcode covers four properties, one of which is half a mile away and on the other side of the road. The Post Office are fine but a lot of other people are completely at sea: I always put my phone number into the "Delivery Options" bit so the drivers can give me a bell.

My postcode cover about half a mile.
I have had 'white van' drivers leave parcels on my doorstep addressed to other houses (Home Orchards is a favourite, because I have an orchard & they don't any more). And the Post Office sometimes puts my neighbour's bank statements through my door!!!!

Think yourself lucky you don't have to deal with French postcodes: I share the same postcode with all the inhabitants of four other nearby towns. So more than one street with the same name in tme postal area! Numpties looking in their satnav just choose the first one in the list and end up taking an HGV down a single track farm lane!

As I have said before, there are a lot of poor countries in the world with bad addressing systems and a lot of informal housing. When they get to the point where they need a postcode system they will choose something very like eircode.

plodder

Bray Head wrote: »

Anything sound familiar here?

As I have said before, there are a lot of poor countries in the world with bad addressing systems and a lot of informal housing. When they get to the point where they need a postcode system they will choose something very like eircode.

I'd say it is more likely in those cases, they will go for a geocode, or something directly derived from a geocode. It takes a far greater investment, and effort, in deciding what is and isn't a house etc. to get to the system we have.

oscarBravo

plodder wrote: »

It takes a far greater investment, and effort, in deciding what is and isn't a house etc. to get to the system we have.

That may be true, assuming they don't already have the equivalent of our Geodirectory.

ronanocon

The Uk has UPRNs for every address and Royal Mail have Addressbase, which is the GeoDirectory equivalent.
http://www.aligned-assets.co.uk/solutions/what-is-the-uprn/
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/addressbase-products.html

TheChizler

ronanocon wrote: »

The Uk has UPRNs for every address and Royal Mail have Addressbase, which is the GeoDirectory equivalent.
http://www.aligned-assets.co.uk/solutions/what-is-the-uprn/
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/addressbase-products.html

Are you making a point that the UK postcode system is very different to Eircode even though they have a full address database?

If so, the UK postcode system was developed years prior to Addressbase. They're talking about a country developing a postcode which currently has nothing as well developed.

GreenFolder2

TheChizler wrote: »

Are you making a point that the UK postcode system is very different to Eircode even though they have a full address database?

If so, the UK postcode system was developed years prior to Addressbase. They're talking about a country developing a postcode which currently has nothing as well developed.

They've exactly the same problem we have, just with a smaller % of addresses. The issue is house / building names, unnamed roads, town lands etc and the postal codes become vastly less granular when you get into rural areas - to the point that that they're not much better than a codified townland.

Ireland's addressing conventions are very similar to the UK and come from the same 19th century GPO system origin of using post office towns and so on.

We just have a way higher % of one off housing as a proportion of our housing stock.

When you get into using building names instead of numbers and vague, verbose addresses, things start to get complicated for computers as you can't guarantee the address will always be written the same.

You could probably do with extending the UK postal codes with an optional building identifier. It would be genuinely useful.

plodder

Postcodes plus building number are unique in urban areas in the UK. They should roll it out for rural areas too. Wouldn't have to be part of the official address but could be used when uniqueness is actually required such as for navigation. Would be the ideal solution. Though there would probably be resistance to it regardless.

ronanocon

TheChizler wrote: »

ronanocon wrote: »

The Uk has UPRNs for every address and Royal Mail have Addressbase, which is the GeoDirectory equivalent.
http://www.aligned-assets.co.uk/solutions/what-is-the-uprn/
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/addressbase-products.html

Are you making a point that the UK postcode system is very different to Eircode even though they have a full address database?

If so, the UK postcode system was developed years prior to Addressbase. They're talking about a country developing a postcode which currently has nothing as well developed.

Royal Mail deliver the post. Royal Mail own and manage addressbase. You would think/hope that RM have it within their capability to maintain a DB that enables them to deliver to non-uniques in the same postcode by accessing their own addressbase product.

TheChizler

ronanocon wrote: »

Royal Mail deliver the post. Royal Mail own and manage addressbase. You would think/hope that RM have it within their capability to maintain a DB that enables them to deliver to non-uniques in the same postcode by accessing their own addressbase product.

That wasn't the conversation I was responding to thoight, which was rolling out a postcode in an undeveloped country with no existing relevant infrastructure.

ukoda

The Waze app now supports Eircode

Impetus

ukoda wrote: »

The Waze app now supports Eircode

Fantastic news. Every time I notice a traffic delay, I can enter its eircode to report the issue. I know every one of the 2 million Eircodes (or perhaps it should be called air(head)code?) so I will have no problem assigning a code to an accident taking place at kp 3.45 (km) on the M50 or wherever.

Google traffic does a better job by tracking mobile phone mobility.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.7438783,-7.7223021,8.55z/data=!5m1!1e1

Impetus

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

They've exactly the same problem we have, just with a smaller % of addresses. The issue is house / building names, unnamed roads, town lands etc and the postal codes become vastly less granular when you get into rural areas - to the point that that they're not much better than a codified townland.

Ireland's addressing conventions are very similar to the UK and come from the same 19th century GPO system origin of using post office towns and so on.

We just have a way higher % of one off housing as a proportion of our housing stock.

When you get into using building names instead of numbers and vague, verbose addresses, things start to get complicated for computers as you can't guarantee the address will always be written the same.

You could probably do with extending the UK postal codes with an optional building identifier. It would be genuinely useful.

The randomization issue of the last four characters of the eircode really shot it in the foot. But it is no excuse for not doing what most of the rest of the world has done. ie give every road a name and every building a number, and match them to a unique town name.

A postcode should be a medium resolution disambiguation code for the address - with spatial/numerical logic.

ukoda

Impetus wrote: »

Fantastic news. Every time I notice a traffic delay, I can enter its eircode to report the issue. I know every one of the 2 million Eircodes (or perhaps it should be called air(head)code?) so I will have no problem assigning a code to an accident taking place at kp 3.45 (km) on the M50 or wherever.

Google traffic does a better job by tracking mobile phone mobility.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.7438783,-7.7223021,8.55z/data=!5m1!1e1

You've misunderstood or you don't know how Waze actually works. You don't need to enter details of a traffic jam with an address or eircode in Waze. The app knows your location automatically. The use for eircode in Waze is for entering your destination.

You're way off the mark there with that silly comment.

GreenFolder2

Once the in car sat nav gets it it will be a lot easier. Entering an address on my Toyota one is a bloody nightmare. Terrible interface.

The other big one is Apple Maps which I'd basically TomTom data. There are a lot of iOS devices out there with people too lazy to download proper maps from Google

ukoda

Plodder should be happier now....

https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/824263399454502913

byrnefm

I noticed another example of a pre-addressed envelope for a PO box address .. with an Eircode on it - the passport express envelope. Unfortunately I didn't get to note the Eircode down to see what address it maps back to.

sondagefaux

ukoda wrote: »

Plodder should be happier now....

https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/824263399454502913

And another little tweak to the Autoaddress app:

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Autoaddress ‏[ltr]@autoaddress[/ltr] Jan 20[/font]

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[font=Arial, sans-serif]Autoaddress 2.0 supports Postal, Geographic and Preferred Address - the version people regard as correct! #Eircode[/font]

[Deleted User]

Eircodes have been implemented.
Next please!

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

Eircodes have been implemented.
Next please!

Not completely. I am still waiting for my Garmin satnav to be updated. I might be waiting a long time.

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not completely. I am still waiting for my Garmin satnav to be updated. I might be waiting a long time.

So then completely implemented = every company in the world implementing it on their devices / systems?

sondagefaux

If you do this in Google Maps: https://www.google.ie/maps/place/D08XY00 ...
... that type URL converts into this type of URL:

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Merchants+Quay,+Dublin,+D08+XY00/@53.3439126,-6.2742898,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x48670c263124a3ab:0xc21a2333af7a839d!8m2!3d53.3439126!4d-6.2721011
In other words, just put an Eircode after the end of www.google.ie/maps/place/ and that shorter URL will resolve to the precise location, complete with co-ordinates.
A minor thing, but it all adds up...

gctest50

I see the Loc8 twitter is getting more cretinous

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3pw1bKWAAAl2C3.jpg